Asperger's being diagnosed as Personality disorders.

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I know a top psychiatrist who says that some personality disorders are adult manifestations of childhood high functioning autism and AS. He said to me personally, that he would like to burn the DSM-IV.

"emotional dysregulation, extreme "black and white" thinking, or "splitting" (believing that something is one of only two possible things, and ignoring any possible "in-betweens"), and chaotic relationships."

I always thought BPD was depressed lonely Aspie who felt everyone was abandoning him?

Borderline personality disorder and Asperger syndrome.
Autism. 2005 Oct;9(4):452. No abstract available.
PMID: 16320474 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And obsessive compulsive personality disorder is similar to AS as well, Adrian Monk on TV proves it.

Misdiagnosis of Asperger syndrome as anankastic personality disorder.
Autism. 2002 Dec;6(4):435. No abstract available.
PMID: 12540134 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

First
THANK YOU ALL!

I only fit 2 of the 9 criteria for BPD. When taking the Aspie test and the EQ and SQ tests (If thats what they are called [cant remember]) they all say I am most likely an Aspie.
Its not like I didn't know, I always suspected, I just never checked it out.
If it was hard dealing with my Aspie daughter just think about dealing with myself. lol.
Well I'll stick around.
Thanks again everyone!

I was diagnosed with BPD over a 3 day stay in the hospital, because I'd cut up my arms, and said I felt "empty".

They didn't bother to look at the content of my outbursts that lead to it in the first place, it wasn't an abandonment thing. I had an outburst upon leaving and it was because one of the staff told me I could stay until I got ahold of the people who were supposed to pick me up, and then lost it on a nurse who started packing up my stuff and told me to get out.

What they saw was me "freaking out", but they didn't ask. What I was upset about was that I already had planned to move my own things, and wait in the little dayroom thingie until I could get ahold of my ride, then my ride got there and I leave. But when she walked in and started packing, my plans changed completely within 5 minutes and I didn't know how long I would be stuck in a waiting room full of people coming in and out (right next to the phone was the entrance), and not to mention, it was pre-arranged that cell phones would NOT be turned off and they would be ready to come get me as soon as I was discharged. I was not supposed to be having to wait in an uncomfortable situation for 3 hours before I could get ahold of them.

Since outbursts/outrages are common with BPD, they saw this as confirmation and slapped me on some mood stabilizers. Never once did they notice that when plans changed I freaked out. They just said that I freaked out on the nurse because I didn't like her and was afraid that my ride would never come... so far from the truth.

I think this is very common. I read that in adults AS and HFA are very often misdiagnosed (and as such not treated or medicated appropriately) as OCD, BPD, schizophrenia, schizoid disorders and even NPD, as many psychologists are much less experienced/knowledgable in ASD.

its common for doctors to see only limited aspects of people, that often leads to wrong diagnosis

I've been reading of Aspie parents who didn't realize they were, themselves, until their kids were diagnosed. Also, my therapist said this week that she's seen a lot of the same thing (when I asked for a referral re. diagnosis - which, btw, she's following-up on; I was glad she took me seriously).

True - a lot of women especially, if social relationships are a problem and the psych doesn't know what else it could be, quickly get diagnosed as Borderline without even showing any of the hallmarks...

True - a lot of women especially, if social relationships are a problem and the psych doesn't know what else it could be, quickly get diagnosed as Borderline without even showing any of the hallmarks...

This is all so familiar. I was diagnosed with BPD for 4 years. Last december I got myself 'undiagnosed' but they didn't come up with a diagnosis to replace it. Still, it's a start. i didn't appreciate the BPD diagnosis and it only explained a few things. AS covers absolutely everything I've ever wondered about myself.

Yeah, well, I suspect you haven't known enough people with BPD. Go be a tech in a psych hospital for a while, and you'll see what I mean.

Most people with BPD have had really difficult childhoods, usually when there's abuse, neglect, or substance abuse in the home. While this can happen to anyone with an ASD, it can also happen to anyone without one as well.

Wow, Noetic, you're still around here?

Anyhow, here's my take on it:

1 - Women with an ASD have two routes, in most cases. One is to hide their symptoms and suffer the consequences. The other is to show their symptoms or seek help and suffer the consequences.

2 - Women with AS who do seek help are up against two serious biases. One is that ASD is supposedly a male-dominant condition, and so a women/girl is often dx'd with it after many other things have been eliminated. Second is that women who seek help are generally viewed by the mental health field is very narrow and often sexist ways. We're seen as attention-seeking, drug-seeking, manipulative, histronic, needy, whiny, a burden on the system - i.e., as a typical BPD. It doesn't matter if you walk in with the quiet reserve and analytical mindset of an Aspie. If you're female and ask for help, you're automatically perceived by many in the field as attention-seeking and manipulative.

3- Women with BPD and not an ASD may graviate toward wanting a dx of an ASD over a dx BPD because it's a more sympathetic dx, and may manipulate the system to get that dx (and any drugs they can milk out it), as they often do with other dx's like depression, anxoety disorders, OCD and BD.

I can't say if the original poster has AS over BPD, but if she's coming here to seek out vindication and using her child as Exhibit A in her case, I would be highly suspicious, because that could potentially be "hallmark" BPD behavior.

whoa, now, lol. I was diagnosed with BPD while I was in a bad situation, a really bad situation at the time. I don't want any drugs to fix my problem-I'd rather not have medication as I absolutely HATE how it changes things. I don't tell people even about the BPD thing, I'm sure not going to be telling anyone if I am diagnosed with AS. I just simply want to know why I think the way I do. Yes, my son has pretty much been confirmed, but that's not why I'm here. I'm not even looking into this for benefits (yet, they would be really helpful as I haven't been able to find a "decent" job that understands that things happen in over 5 years). I just want to know. I could really care less about sympathy-I don't want anyone looking at me and saying "awww, you poor thing, you just keep doing what you're doing and I'll do everything else". lol, it's just not me. I just want a direction to go in-I want to know why, I want to be able to communicate to my family better. I could care less whether or not I ever talk to my neighbor again, but I want to be able to work with my son instead of both of us working against each other all of the time.

Sorry if I seem defensive, I just noticed that one seemed a bit generalized to "women" and not "some women". I also wanted to say I guess because I haven't been officially diagnosed, so it's still a bit up in the air on whether or not I am But if I'm not, it's not for the drugs or the extra attention that I'm looking into it. I don't see this as anything that sounds like it needs sympathy. If I am, it's just the way I am and there are a few things I can improve on here and there and that's it. I'm not gonna be telling the world about it, and am wanting to figure out details without medication.

Could someone explain what flat effect means? And what is the definition of borderline personality disorder? I knew a woman who said she was diagnosed with borderline plus about 5 other things. All I knew was she acted crazy. After I mentioned Aspergers to her she insisted suddenly that she was autistic though she had no symptoms of AS that I could see.

Not still, again... had a bit of a break from autism forums for about a year


I guess the same counts for men too, no?


I have luckily not had that experience but yes that is the impression I have gained from what others have reported.


I guess so but a LOT of parents only find out about their own AS or ADD when a child is diagnosed.

However there is one lady on a German forum who "used to" be borderline and still kept going to BPD self-help groups while she was adamant that she actually had AS. Eventually she managed to get her son diagnosed with atypical autism after much protest and pressure from her, so now her self-diagnosis is "justified".

BPD criteria:

1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment (not including suicidal tendencies or self-mutilating behavior)

2. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of ideation and devaluation.

3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

4. Impulsivity in at least 2 areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g. spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)

5. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

6. affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g. intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

7. chronic feelings of emptiness

8. inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g. frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

9. transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

The essential feature of BPD is a pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity that begins by early adulthood and is present in a variety of contexts.

Individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder make frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. The perception of impending separation or rejection, or the loss of external structure, can lead to profound changes in self-image, affect, cognition, and behavior. These individuals are very sensitive to environmental circumstances. They experience intense abandonment fears and inappropriate anger even when faced with a realistic time-limited separation or when there are unavoidable changes in plans (i.e. sudden despair in reaction to a clinician's announcing the end of the hour, panic of fury when someone important to them is just a few minutes late or must cancel an appointment). They may believe that this "abandonment" implies they are "bad". These abandonment fears are related to an intolerance of being alone and a need to have other people with them. Their frantic efforts to avoid abandonment may include impulsive actions such as self-mutilating or suicidal behaviors which are described separately.

Individuals with BPD have a pattern of unstable and intense relationships. They may idealize potential caregivers or lovers at the first or second meeting, demand to spend a lot of time together, and share the most intimate details early in a relationship. However they may switch quickly from idealizing other people to devaluing them, feeling that the other person does not care enough, does not give enough, is not "there" enough. These individuals can empathize with and nurture other people, but only with the expectation that the other person will "be there" in return to meet their own needs on demand. These individuals are prone to sudden and dramatic shifts in their view of others who may alternately seen as beneficent supports or as curlly punitive. Such shifts often reflect disillusionment with a caregiver who nurturing qualities had been idealized or whose rejection or abandonment is expected.

There may be an identity disturbance characterized by markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self. There are sudden and dramatic shifts of self-image, characterized by shifting goals, values, and vocational aspirations. There may be sudden changes in opinions and plans about career, sexual identity, values, and types of friends. These individuals may suddenly change from the role of a needy supplicant for help to a righteous avenger of past mistreatment. Although they usually helf a self-image that is based on being bad or evil, individuals with this disorder may at times have feelings that they do not exist at all. Such experiences usually occur in situations in which the individual feels a lack of meaningful relationship, nurturing, and support. These individuals may show worse performance in unstructured work or school situations.

Individuals with this disorder display impulsivity in at least 2 areas that are potentially self damaging. They may gamble, spend money irresponsibly, binge eat, abuse substances, engage in unsafe sex, or drive recklessly. Individuals with BPD display recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior. Completed suicide occurs in 8%-10% of such individuals, and self mutilative acts (i.e. cutting or burning) and suicide threats and attempts are very common. Recurrent suicidality is often the reason that these individuals present for help. These self-destructive acts are usually precipitated by threats of separation or rejection or by expectations that they assume increased responsibility. Self-mutilations may occur during dissociateive experiences and often brings relief by reaffirming the ability to feel or by expiating the individuals sense of being evil.

Individuals with BPD may display affective instability that is due to a marked reactivity of mood (i.e. intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days). The basic dysphoric mood of those is often disrupted by periods of anger, panic, or despair, and is rarely relieved by periods of well-being or satisfaction. These episodes may reflect the individual's extreme reactivity troubled by chronic feelings of emptiness. Easily bored, they may constantly seek something to do. Individuals with BPD frequently espress inappropriate, intense anger or have difficulty controlling their anger. They may display extreme sarcasm, enduring bitterness, or verbal outbursts. The anger is often elicited when a caregiver or lover is seen as neglectful, withholding, uncaring, or abandoning. Such expressions of anger are often followed by shame and guilt and contribute to the feeling they have of being evil. During periods of extreme stress, transient paranoid ideation or dissociative symptoms may occur, but these are generally of insufficient suverity or duration to warrant an additional diagnosis. These episodes occur most frequently in response to a real or imagined abandonment. Symptoms tend to be transient, lasting minutes or hours. The real or perceived return of the caregiver's nurturance may result in a remission of symptoms.

Associated features:
*pattern of undermining themselves at the moment a goal is about to be realized
*some have psychotic like symptoms during times of stress
*recurrent job losses
*interrupted education
*broken marriages

Last edited by nobodyzdream on 07 May 2007, 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sorry the last one was so long-since someone asked about it I could have as easily put the link, but not everyone clicks on the links to find the info Not saying it wouldn't have happened, but there it is

and flat effect means a severe reduction in emotional expressiveness