I have a hard time getting along with aspies.

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Malal
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04 Aug 2014, 7:02 am

Hello! Not a bash thread by any means. I'm diagnosed with schizophrenia with myself, and am just wondering why i can't seem to get along with people who have aspergers. It's less pronounced in other autism spectrum disorders.

So, here's the thing: Over extended periods of time (living together, going to school, etc), my relationships with aspie individuals have a tendency to end up in strong mutual hatred, or at the very least dislike. I've been described as manipulative, cruel and self-serving, though i don't feel like i've been any of those things - rather i've been trying to be social and polite in spite of my own problems. I have a hard time tuning out what other people are saying to me, and i'm always polite to a fault. Don't know how to say no and that sorta thing, and i often find myself thinking aspies (the ones i've met) are egocentric and boisterous. Probably a communication error somewhere, but i can't seem to pinpoint it.

This happened between me and two different housemates, as well as one guy from college. They all initially liked me a lot, but over time they wanted more time and attention than i was willing/able to give, and i guess after a while they felt betrayed.
I think my youngest brother might be an aspie too, so i don't want that happening with him.

I also feel like just shutting down anyone with asperger's, simply because they have aspergers, is kind of a copout - so if anyone has an idea what went wrong or need more info, please let me know.



yournamehere
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04 Aug 2014, 7:21 am

Sounds about right actually. There are reasons why we are not very high on most peoples friendship list, and you just described some of those reasons pritty well. Most people on here wonder why they don't have any friends. These are some of those things they do not understand. Thank you for pointing them out.



ASD_Geek
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04 Aug 2014, 8:57 am

This is true from my understanding as well. I've been told that I come across as thinking that I am smarter than others and honestly do think that way some of the time but try not to show it. I've also been told by someone close to me that on occasion am not bring a good friend to others. It's something that I try to work on but it is very difficult and exhausting.



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04 Aug 2014, 9:06 am

Sometimes, people just wanna be victims / are just feeling sorry for themselves---- they want to whine, and try to get attention----they say/feel things like: "Why don't you help me", "Why is it I have to suffer", "You're not considering MY feelings"----and, they like to blame whatever bad day they're having on the person that's closest in proximity (a room-mate). If there have been times when you just really needed to attend to YOURSELF, for a moment----after being so kind and caring----they'll immediately throw it in your face that you're being selfish, etc. It's quite possible you've been TOO attentive, and spoiled them, and they're behaving like spoiled-rotten children!!



MjrMajorMajor
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04 Aug 2014, 9:45 am

Malal wrote:
Rather i've been trying to be social and polite in spite of my own problems. I have a hard time tuning out what other people are saying to me, and i'm always polite to a fault. Don't know how to say no and that sorta thing, and i often find myself thinking aspies (the ones i've met) are egocentric .


I'm guessing this sums up the disconnect. You place value on being social and polite, expecting it to be reciprocated(which would normally happen). We possess a more limited,if any understanding of social niceties and expectations, so replies tend to be honest and very blunt. Straightforwardness is the best response.
We aren't egocentric in the sense that you may believe. I think a better term is autocentric, because that's how our brain works. It varies by person, but this is a central fact with autism.



Awiddershinlife
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04 Aug 2014, 9:45 am

I am autistic and I don't get along with most people regardless of their dx or lack there of. I mostly just want to be left alone. But I need to stay employed so "anthropology" is one of my hobbies

Malal wrote:
I've been described as manipulative, cruel and self-serving, though i don't feel like i've been any of those things - rather i've been trying to be social and polite in spite of my own problems.


Politeness does not cancel out manipulative, cruel or self-serving behaviors. My theory is if several non-associated people say similar comments about me, its probably my problem and I try to keep an eye out for it proactively.

Malal wrote:
I have a hard time tuning out what other people are saying to me, and i'm always polite to a fault. Don't know how to say no and that sorta thing, and i often find myself thinking aspies (the ones i've met) are egocentric and boisterous. Probably a communication error somewhere, but i can't seem to pinpoint it.


Autistics tend to be naively egocentric (poor understanding or awareness of others) rather than calculating as in psychopaths or narcissists who are experts at understanding others for the purpose of manipulating them. I have a very hard time saying "no" and have learned to avoid people who don't respect this flaw, which is actually an indirect way of saying "no". If an autistic is saying "no" a lot, this button has probably been pushed too many times.

The problem I've had with "aspies/HFAs" (as opposed to "LFAs" - those of whom I've met have been independent thinkers) is they form tight cliques and all decide to think with one mind. They don't feel comfortable if someone has different perspectives. I dislike joining any organization and feel creeped out by cliques.

Malal wrote:
This happened between me and two different housemates, as well as one guy from college. They all initially liked me a lot, but over time they wanted more time and attention than i was willing/able to give, and i guess after a while they felt betrayed.


I get complaints that I am too independent. I prefer large swaths of alone time. Because I am forced to interact socially in the workplace, that means I don't want to be with housemates. Your housemates were probably immature and optimistically thought they final had found their BFF.

Malal wrote:
I also feel like just shutting down anyone with asperger's, simply because they have aspergers, is kind of a copout - so if anyone has an idea what went wrong or need more info, please let me know.


Maybe you're fed up right now because that sounds a little bigoted.

Try clear communication about boundaries and preferences. Don't expect nonverbal or figurative language to be effective. Use patience while we figure out social dynamics. And keep owning your own s**t.

I was in my late 40s when I was diagnosed. I started reading about autism. By reverse psychology, I figured from anything the texts claimed about autism (and lots of what "experts" think is invalid), the opposite was true of NTs. Up until that time, I had no idea they were so different from me in so many ways. It was only then that I could start to develop my emulation skills to become more successful in the workplace.


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VisInsita
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04 Aug 2014, 10:12 am

I don?t think I am egoistic or selfish any more than any average person, but I have tremendous trouble in reflecting outside what I have inside. Like if I see someone smiling nicely to me, I can?t get my face to react socially. What happens to a typical person is that their body automatically reacts to that smile without them even thinking about it. My automatic reaction on the other hand turns the gaze away to avoid eye contact and my face stays blank and expressionless ? no matter the emotions I have inside. I have a constant conscious battle going on against my own bodily reactions. I am swimming upstream all the time and sometimes the judgment of others seems too harsh and unjustified, especially when based on my solitary confinement I know that none can see what you truly have inside.

I feel imprisoned, because I can?t react and after that split second it?s already too late. The person I?ve encountered has already sealed my faith: I am egoistic, rude and not wanting to have anything to do with anyone. I can?t get that social language out of me, but the lack of that language doesn?t still reflect what I have inside. I also feel tremendous guilt of not being able to react, because to some extent I know the ways in which you are supposed to react. I?d want to smile, answer back, approach, greet and so on, but I f*king can?t. Then you go home crying, because you think the person feels bad, because you didn?t answer or that he or she is thinking that you are an as*hole for not smiling or greeting.

Also could it be that you too have a way of communicating that they can?t understand? Maybe they consider you manipulative, because of something you do. Why not to ask? Like I don?t get it when people for example say ?let?s see? and actually mean ?I am not coming with you, I just don?t have the guts to say it and as I want to keep my positive self-image, I say it this way? and there I am waiting to the last minute for that call after they?ve ?seen? what to them was obvious already in the moment of answering.



Malal
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04 Aug 2014, 11:05 am

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
Malal wrote:
Rather i've been trying to be social and polite in spite of my own problems. I have a hard time tuning out what other people are saying to me, and i'm always polite to a fault. Don't know how to say no and that sorta thing, and i often find myself thinking aspies (the ones i've met) are egocentric .


I'm guessing this sums up the disconnect. You place value on being social and polite, expecting it to be reciprocated(which would normally happen). We possess a more limited,if any understanding of social niceties and expectations, so replies tend to be honest and very blunt. Straightforwardness is the best response.
We aren't egocentric in the sense that you may believe. I think a better term is autocentric, because that's how our brain works. It varies by person, but this is a central fact with autism.

This seems about right! I never got the impression that any of the people in question did not care for others - only they seem to mainly think of things in relation to themselves. I think that has an unfortunate interaction with my own issues. I'm often isolative and sullen for no reason, and part of my process is trying to decrease that behaviour (which seems to be working so far) - only, the more i give socially, the more i get back, even though i might not explicitly want that. I don't think it would be easy for anyone to figure me out in that sense, much less someone with aspergers, so talking about it might help.
But it's often when i try to explain myself in this regard that i start getting negative reactions. Maybe i'm too straightforward, maybe not straightforward enough.. @_@



Malal
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04 Aug 2014, 11:10 am

Awiddershinlife wrote:
I am autistic and I don't get along with most people regardless of their dx or lack there of. I mostly just want to be left alone. But I need to stay employed so "anthropology" is one of my hobbies

Malal wrote:
I've been described as manipulative, cruel and self-serving, though i don't feel like i've been any of those things - rather i've been trying to be social and polite in spite of my own problems.


Politeness does not cancel out manipulative, cruel or self-serving behaviors. My theory is if several non-associated people say similar comments about me, its probably my problem and I try to keep an eye out for it proactively.

Malal wrote:
I have a hard time tuning out what other people are saying to me, and i'm always polite to a fault. Don't know how to say no and that sorta thing, and i often find myself thinking aspies (the ones i've met) are egocentric and boisterous. Probably a communication error somewhere, but i can't seem to pinpoint it.


Autistics tend to be naively egocentric (poor understanding or awareness of others) rather than calculating as in psychopaths or narcissists who are experts at understanding others for the purpose of manipulating them. I have a very hard time saying "no" and have learned to avoid people who don't respect this flaw, which is actually an indirect way of saying "no". If an autistic is saying "no" a lot, this button has probably been pushed too many times.

The problem I've had with "aspies/HFAs" (as opposed to "LFAs" - those of whom I've met have been independent thinkers) is they form tight cliques and all decide to think with one mind. They don't feel comfortable if someone has different perspectives. I dislike joining any organization and feel creeped out by cliques.

Malal wrote:
This happened between me and two different housemates, as well as one guy from college. They all initially liked me a lot, but over time they wanted more time and attention than i was willing/able to give, and i guess after a while they felt betrayed.


I get complaints that I am too independent. I prefer large swaths of alone time. Because I am forced to interact socially in the workplace, that means I don't want to be with housemates. Your housemates were probably immature and optimistically thought they final had found their BFF.

Malal wrote:
I also feel like just shutting down anyone with asperger's, simply because they have aspergers, is kind of a copout - so if anyone has an idea what went wrong or need more info, please let me know.


Maybe you're fed up right now because that sounds a little bigoted.

Try clear communication about boundaries and preferences. Don't expect nonverbal or figurative language to be effective. Use patience while we figure out social dynamics. And keep owning your own sh**.

I was in my late 40s when I was diagnosed. I started reading about autism. By reverse psychology, I figured from anything the texts claimed about autism (and lots of what "experts" think is invalid), the opposite was true of NTs. Up until that time, I had no idea they were so different from me in so many ways. It was only then that I could start to develop my emulation skills to become more successful in the workplace.


Sorry, english isn't my first language! :P

What i meant with the last part is, i don't want to automatically think "i won't get along with that guy" just because he has autism. I know there's more to it than that, and i think if i got a little bit more clear in the way i express myself, that might help a lot. Im just not sure how, but some people in this thread have been helpful already.



Malal
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04 Aug 2014, 11:13 am

VisInsita wrote:
I don?t think I am egoistic or selfish any more than any average person, but I have tremendous trouble in reflecting outside what I have inside. Like if I see someone smiling nicely to me, I can?t get my face to react socially. What happens to a typical person is that their body automatically reacts to that smile without them even thinking about it. My automatic reaction on the other hand turns the gaze away to avoid eye contact and my face stays blank and expressionless ? no matter the emotions I have inside. I have a constant conscious battle going on against my own bodily reactions. I am swimming upstream all the time and sometimes the judgment of others seems too harsh and unjustified, especially when based on my solitary confinement I know that none can see what you truly have inside.

I feel imprisoned, because I can?t react and after that split second it?s already too late. The person I?ve encountered has already sealed my faith: I am egoistic, rude and not wanting to have anything to do with anyone. I can?t get that social language out of me, but the lack of that language doesn?t still reflect what I have inside. I also feel tremendous guilt of not being able to react, because to some extent I know the ways in which you are supposed to react. I?d want to smile, answer back, approach, greet and so on, but I f*king can?t. Then you go home crying, because you think the person feels bad, because you didn?t answer or that he or she is thinking that you are an as*hole for not smiling or greeting.

Also could it be that you too have a way of communicating that they can?t understand? Maybe they consider you manipulative, because of something you do. Why not to ask? Like I don?t get it when people for example say ?let?s see? and actually mean ?I am not coming with you, I just don?t have the guts to say it and as I want to keep my positive self-image, I say it this way? and there I am waiting to the last minute for that call after they?ve ?seen? what to them was obvious already in the moment of answering.


That last bit you mentioned, i've actually done that once or twice so i think that might be part of it!
Reflecting on myself in the situation, it's not so much that i don't want to do anything as much as i barely know what day it is most of the time, so i can't keep up with appointments very reliably. None of the autists i met had any problems with that :P i think that's like 50% of the conflicts right there



Awiddershinlife
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04 Aug 2014, 12:45 pm

Malal wrote:
Awiddershinlife wrote:
What i meant with the last part is, i don't want to automatically think "i won't get along with that guy" just because he has autism. I know there's more to it than that, and i think if i got a little bit more clear in the way i express myself, that might help a lot. Im just not sure how, but some people in this thread have been helpful already.


The very fact that you came to WP to talk about how you're feeling about autistics shows that you are not currently bigoted. I meant it as a heads up. I hope you found some helpful responses.

BTW, Your English is excellent!


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04 Aug 2014, 3:19 pm

I don't know how I get along with other aspies as I have never knowingly known any, but I do sometimes get annoyed at people that show similar traits. A certain type of person who talks too loudly, too much, too weirdly without awareness. I think it is a bit of projection on my part, I know I can be like that too, and I've death with it by becoming super anxious and trying to stick to all these rules I impose on myself and get annoyed when others don't. That was before I actually knew what I had and how it is for others, I hope I am more tolerant now.