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I really like kids and others don't seem to

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MehruneMath
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13 Sep 2014, 4:00 pm

Charloz wrote:
MehruneMath wrote:
In twenty years machines will be capable of doing anything humans can do currently. Also I doubt I will be "screwed" as you say. I have plenty of means in the realm of generating income.


I wouldn't count on. People are always way too optimistic about what machines can and cannot do, let alone their affordability which I think will be limited; they'll only be available for those who have quite a lot of money. It's cold and impersonal, too. Some people like it that way, cold and impersonal. Some people genuinely don't feel the need for any social interaction, friendship, a family, love... and that's fine. But people change, attitudes change, and being pessimistic and negative is no way to live a life.

There's a really awesome world away from our keyboards, beyond our screens. There's a sun to feel on our skins, and tons of things to put smiles on our faces. It's something different, I know. Scary at times. But well worth giving a try. :wink:


I cannot wait until artificial intelligence obliterates what is left of our innate human "emotion" and "feeling" simply worthless in the grand scheme of things. I hate the sun and the word "love" makes me coil in disgust.

I'm not optimistic at all; nor am I pessimistic. I'm simply stating facts that you, yourself would realize if you had done any research into this matter. Also the price:performance ratio has constantly shown that as a new technology is in it's beta, or early stages it is less functional and more expensive, and as it improves the price drops as it becomes more affordable; at which point it is assimilated by the masses. If your brain cannot conceive of this than do some research into the mobile phones of the 1990s as compared to the phones we have today, and you can clearly see how it is more ubiquitous within human society.

sharkattack wrote:
I am 40 as people get older our views tend to get softer.


My views have been fairly consistent from the age of seven up to my current age of twenty-one.


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13 Sep 2014, 4:04 pm

InThisTogether wrote:
You clearly don't have kids yet.


Well-spotted. And yes, I am pretty much entirely inexperienced in the subject, I'll admit. I will be able to make a more informed decision once I have some kids of my own, living with me 24\7. Until then, all I have to go by is my observations. And I have observed some badly misbehaved children who were often:

1) An only child used to getting anything they wanted with relatively little resistance

2) Children of divorced parents with various issues, big and small, as a result

3) Children who's parents would always find excuses for their behaviour

Of course that doesn't mean all only children or all children from broken homes are necessarily misbehaved, nor do I mean to insinuate in any way that children of 'good' parents can't ever act out or misbehave, but I do see certain trends and similarities. I have a young cousin for example who is both an only child and who's parents are divorced, and he usually acts out a lot when he is with his mother (who allows his behaviour, puts no bounderies on him and is a pushover) yet acts quite well-behaved with his stricter father who is more clear about bounderies.



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13 Sep 2014, 4:11 pm

MehruneMath wrote:
I cannot wait until artificial intelligence obliterates what is left of our innate human "emotion" and "feeling" simply worthless in the grand scheme of things. I hate the sun and the word "love" makes me coil in disgust.


Emotions are valid things, they exist. One can be happy, one can be sad, one can be depressed and on top of the moon. They are real, very real, and in my experience very powerful. That doesn't mean you cannot be a person who is more detached from things, more cold and calculating. Everybody is different, after all. As far as love goes, love is an amazing thing I can heartily recommend to everyone, including those who haven't had the pleasure to experience it yet. And we all love someone in our lives... whether it be friends (online or offline), your family, relatives, a pet. It's a very real thing and often the driving force behind things. Why be disgusted by something beautiful you do not understand, rather then try to understand it?

MehruneMath wrote:
I'm not optimistic at all; nor am I pessimistic. I'm simply stating facts that you, yourself would realize if you had done any research into this matter. Also the price:performance ratio has constantly shown that as a new technology is in it's beta, or early stages it is less functional and more expensive, and as it improves the price drops as it becomes more affordable; at which point it is assimilated by the masses. If your brain cannot conceive of this than do some research into the mobile phones of the 1990s as compared to the phones we have today, and you can clearly see how it is more ubiquitous within human society.


My brain can conceive this, but cares less for technical issues and cold, hard facts then your brain apparently does. Which is alright, as we are all different people and we are all unique in our own ways. And yes, you are pessimistic if you say that the word 'love' disgusts you and that you wish for emotions and feelings to be obliterated. :roll:



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13 Sep 2014, 4:17 pm

InThisTogether wrote:
Charloz wrote:
A child's a product of the way it is raised. Spoil a kid and he'll be a little s**t. Raise him right and he'll behave


1 . You clearly don't have kids yet.

2. Mehrune Math, you say you didn't insult anyone, but I just wanted to offer the feedback that when you strongly state your opinion as you did, and then follow it by saying there are enough useless people in the world, you are--in effect--insulting anyone who has made the decision to have kids. My kids are not useless, and I find anyone hating the fact that I had them insulting because I didn't have an easy time getting pregnant, and my pregnancies were complicated as well.

3. It's OK to prefer to minimize your direct human contact and it is OK to have no plans to have kids. Those decisions are personal decisions that are no one else's business. But if you choose to use words like "hate" and "useless," be prepared for people to call you on it.


1. Yes, I don't and I never will produce offspring.

2. I'm not directly insulting anyone whom chooses to erroneously reproduce. As far as your children being useless, I would not know the answer to that question as I do not know who they are, or what they wish to do with their lives. It isn't my fault you had a difficult time with your pregnancy. I don't care that you find me insulting, and I'm positive I never intended to insult anyone with children. I just think that it's ignorant and humans should attempt to be more restrictive when it comes to reproduction. The fact that you stated you have "kids" tells me you have multiple; which is to me is even more unpleasant. You're welcome to do with you want with your body and a realize human beings enjoy having children; it seems as if humans are proud of anything that comes out of their bodies. I liken it to the same degree of excrement, depending both on the functionality of the child, and what it shall accomplish.

3. Yes, you're correct that it is not only okay, but it should be standard.


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Last edited by MehruneMath on 13 Sep 2014, 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MehruneMath
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13 Sep 2014, 4:22 pm

Charloz wrote:
MehruneMath wrote:
I cannot wait until artificial intelligence obliterates what is left of our innate human "emotion" and "feeling" simply worthless in the grand scheme of things. I hate the sun and the word "love" makes me coil in disgust.


Emotions are valid things, they exist. One can be happy, one can be sad, one can be depressed and on top of the moon. They are real, very real, and in my experience very powerful. That doesn't mean you cannot be a person who is more detached from things, more cold and calculating. Everybody is different, after all. As far as love goes, love is an amazing thing I can heartily recommend to everyone, including those who haven't had the pleasure to experience it yet. And we all love someone in our lives... whether it be friends (online or offline), your family, relatives, a pet. It's a very real thing and often the driving force behind things. Why be disgusted by something beautiful you do not understand, rather then try to understand it?

MehruneMath wrote:
I'm not optimistic at all; nor am I pessimistic. I'm simply stating facts that you, yourself would realize if you had done any research into this matter. Also the price:performance ratio has constantly shown that as a new technology is in it's beta, or early stages it is less functional and more expensive, and as it improves the price drops as it becomes more affordable; at which point it is assimilated by the masses. If your brain cannot conceive of this than do some research into the mobile phones of the 1990s as compared to the phones we have today, and you can clearly see how it is more ubiquitous within human society.


My brain can conceive this, but cares less for technical issues and cold, hard facts then your brain apparently does. Which is alright, as we are all different people and we are all unique in our own ways. And yes, you are pessimistic if you say that the word 'love' disgusts you and that you wish for emotions and feelings to be obliterated. :roll:


We live in a Universe of cause and effect; no emotions are not "valid things" they are an instigation of chemicals produced in your brain to give you a sensation that human beings, more commonly of lesser intellect enjoy attributing to words like "love", and "nostalgia".

My apologies for wishing to partake in a more logical and sophisticated lifestyle.

Your second sentence here is both a misnomer and a non sequitur, rolled into one. Yes love disgusts me, however my reaction to the word and it making me a pessimistic or optimistic person is purely subjective.


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Charloz
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13 Sep 2014, 4:36 pm

MehruneMath wrote:
Charloz wrote:
MehruneMath wrote:
I cannot wait until artificial intelligence obliterates what is left of our innate human "emotion" and "feeling" simply worthless in the grand scheme of things. I hate the sun and the word "love" makes me coil in disgust.


Emotions are valid things, they exist. One can be happy, one can be sad, one can be depressed and on top of the moon. They are real, very real, and in my experience very powerful. That doesn't mean you cannot be a person who is more detached from things, more cold and calculating. Everybody is different, after all. As far as love goes, love is an amazing thing I can heartily recommend to everyone, including those who haven't had the pleasure to experience it yet. And we all love someone in our lives... whether it be friends (online or offline), your family, relatives, a pet. It's a very real thing and often the driving force behind things. Why be disgusted by something beautiful you do not understand, rather then try to understand it?

MehruneMath wrote:
I'm not optimistic at all; nor am I pessimistic. I'm simply stating facts that you, yourself would realize if you had done any research into this matter. Also the price:performance ratio has constantly shown that as a new technology is in it's beta, or early stages it is less functional and more expensive, and as it improves the price drops as it becomes more affordable; at which point it is assimilated by the masses. If your brain cannot conceive of this than do some research into the mobile phones of the 1990s as compared to the phones we have today, and you can clearly see how it is more ubiquitous within human society.


My brain can conceive this, but cares less for technical issues and cold, hard facts then your brain apparently does. Which is alright, as we are all different people and we are all unique in our own ways. And yes, you are pessimistic if you say that the word 'love' disgusts you and that you wish for emotions and feelings to be obliterated. :roll:


We live in a Universe of cause and effect; no emotions are not "valid things" they are an instigation of chemicals produced in your brain to give you a sensation that human beings, more commonly of lesser intellect enjoy attributing to words like "love", and "nostalgia".

My apologies for wishing to partake in a more logical and sophisticated lifestyle.

Your second sentence here is both a misnomer and a non sequitur, rolled into one. Yes love disgusts me, however my reaction to the word and it making me a pessimistic or optimistic person is purely subjective.


Why does love disgust you?

And why do you consider a lifestyle free of emotions and feelings "more sophisticated"?

Also the assumption that those of us who embrace the concept and existence of feelings and emotions are "more commonly of lesser intellect" is quite insulting. There is nothing 'sophisticated' about looking down on others.



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13 Sep 2014, 4:47 pm

Charloz wrote:
MehruneMath wrote:
Charloz wrote:
MehruneMath wrote:
I cannot wait until artificial intelligence obliterates what is left of our innate human "emotion" and "feeling" simply worthless in the grand scheme of things. I hate the sun and the word "love" makes me coil in disgust.


Emotions are valid things, they exist. One can be happy, one can be sad, one can be depressed and on top of the moon. They are real, very real, and in my experience very powerful. That doesn't mean you cannot be a person who is more detached from things, more cold and calculating. Everybody is different, after all. As far as love goes, love is an amazing thing I can heartily recommend to everyone, including those who haven't had the pleasure to experience it yet. And we all love someone in our lives... whether it be friends (online or offline), your family, relatives, a pet. It's a very real thing and often the driving force behind things. Why be disgusted by something beautiful you do not understand, rather then try to understand it?

MehruneMath wrote:
I'm not optimistic at all; nor am I pessimistic. I'm simply stating facts that you, yourself would realize if you had done any research into this matter. Also the price:performance ratio has constantly shown that as a new technology is in it's beta, or early stages it is less functional and more expensive, and as it improves the price drops as it becomes more affordable; at which point it is assimilated by the masses. If your brain cannot conceive of this than do some research into the mobile phones of the 1990s as compared to the phones we have today, and you can clearly see how it is more ubiquitous within human society.


My brain can conceive this, but cares less for technical issues and cold, hard facts then your brain apparently does. Which is alright, as we are all different people and we are all unique in our own ways. And yes, you are pessimistic if you say that the word 'love' disgusts you and that you wish for emotions and feelings to be obliterated. :roll:


We live in a Universe of cause and effect; no emotions are not "valid things" they are an instigation of chemicals produced in your brain to give you a sensation that human beings, more commonly of lesser intellect enjoy attributing to words like "love", and "nostalgia".

My apologies for wishing to partake in a more logical and sophisticated lifestyle.

Your second sentence here is both a misnomer and a non sequitur, rolled into one. Yes love disgusts me, however my reaction to the word and it making me a pessimistic or optimistic person is purely subjective.


Why does love disgust you?

And why do you consider a lifestyle free of emotions and feelings "more sophisticated"?

Also the assumption that those of us who embrace the concept and existence of feelings and emotions are "more commonly of lesser intellect" is quite insulting. There is nothing 'sophisticated' about looking down on others.


Love disgusts me due to the fact that I see it as an aimless emotion that both slows progress down, and uses up to much brain power which could be devoted to logical thought.

Emotions are primitive and have evolved over time with the neo-cortex, and humanity's hierarchical thinking. They have done well in the past to push us to this point, however we no longer need them as reproduction will not be necessary in the coming decades. Those whom do not realize these fact I regard as having a lesser intellect. My sincerest apologies if this had insulted you or anyone else. I was just responding, instinctively to the thread. I never had any intention of putting another person down.


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13 Sep 2014, 4:57 pm

starkid wrote:
I'd bet that many people dislike (younger) children for reasons similar to the reasons for their dislike of autistics: children tend to be honest, guileless, blunt, intellectually curious, lack knowledge of things that adults consider to be obvious, and disinterested in the class of "mature" behavior that includes gossiping, backstabbing, aimless wandering about malls/parties/bars, preening, and the establishment/maintenance of social hierarchies.



This, +1.
They are not nearly as contaminated with mind viruses as adults. Their lack of this is disarming.
They are more human than ego.



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13 Sep 2014, 4:59 pm

MehruneMath wrote:
Love disgusts me due to the fact that I see it as an aimless emotion that both slows progress down, and uses up to much brain power which could be devoted to logical thought.


Not everything that doesn't serve a direct, obvious purpose is instantly useless. You may like the taste of a certain food, or a certain video game. The same way one might like a certain other person, perhaps even a lot. Like someone enough and liking becomes loving.

MehruneMath wrote:
Reproduction will not be necessary in the coming decades


Why not, do you want humanity to die out or something? How awful.

MehruneMath wrote:
Emotions are primitive


So primitive and yet some of society's brightest minds have known feelings of intense love, loss and joy. Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin... such primitive cavemen they are for having friends, being married and having children.

MehruneMath wrote:
Those whom do not realize these fact I regard as having a lesser intellect.


Are they truly facts, or just your opinion that you present as fact because you feel very strongly about it?



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13 Sep 2014, 5:18 pm

Charloz wrote:
Are they truly facts, or just your opinion that you present as fact because you feel very strongly about it?


I think technically he is correct in that emotions are not real things, - no substance. It is something I would classify as a system intelligence though because though not real, they can and do have measurable effects in the real world. It's a type of intelligent energy. I have been currently studying system intelligence.

I'm guessing that the poster you are responding to has a filter in his brain similar to mine where non-real things are processed totally differently than real things.
You may not filter your perceptions like this, and emotions may feel intuitively real as a rock to you. This is a big commonality among NTs, but since we are on a spectrum, there are variations among us as well.

He probably doesn't really feel strongly about it. It's just that all of the real data concerning certain emotions strongly suggests a certain reality about it, that without the bias of an intuition, is undeniable.

If/when new data presents itself he would likely adjust his belief to better match the data.

My impression was that he was simply contributing his view point to the discussion, probably because it was a bit different from the normal. After all, a collection of similar data that all fall into the known normal isn't really grounds for a discussion, or helpful.

It could be that in time his opinion about certain emotions or about kids in general will be modified based on some relevant observation.



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13 Sep 2014, 5:22 pm

olympiadis wrote:
I think technically he is correct in that emotions are not real things, - no substance.


No substance as in not made of matter?

I don't see that anyone in this thread but you has suggested that emotions are not real. If they weren't real, it would be meaningless to refer to them as "primitive" as the previous poster did.



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13 Sep 2014, 5:24 pm

MehruneMath wrote:
Love disgusts me due to the fact that I see it as an aimless emotion that both slows progress down, and uses up to much brain power which could be devoted to logical thought.


Charloz wrote:
Not everything that doesn't serve a direct, obvious purpose is instantly useless. You may like the taste of a certain food, or a certain video game. The same way one might like a certain other person, perhaps even a lot. Like someone enough and liking becomes loving.


I no longer play video games, and I don't care what particular food tastes like. I only consume food and liquid for the nutrients.

MehruneMath wrote:
Reproduction will not be necessary in the coming decades


Charloz wrote:
Why not, do you want humanity to die out or something? How awful.


No, it will be integrated with the technology we're creating and humanity will die out over time. This is simply evolution, with technology being the next paradigm.

MehruneMath wrote:
Emotions are primitive


Charloz wrote:
So primitive and yet some of society's brightest minds have known feelings of intense love, loss and joy. Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin... such primitive cavemen they are for having friends, being married and having children.


They reproduced because it was necessary in the generations they were born into, and I do not dispute their decisions, as if I had existed within the same generations I would have done the same thing.

MehruneMath wrote:
Those whom do not realize these facts I regard as having a lesser intellect.


Charloz wrote:
Are they truly facts, or just your opinion that you present as fact because you feel very strongly about it?


Yes these are facts; you should begin researching into technology and artificial intelligence.


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MehruneMath
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13 Sep 2014, 5:28 pm

starkid wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
I think technically he is correct in that emotions are not real things, - no substance.


No substance as in not made of matter?

I don't see that anyone in this thread but you has suggested that emotions are not real. If they weren't real, it would be meaningless to refer to them as "primitive" as the previous poster did.


I used the adjective "primitive", to exemplify the era I was referring to when discussing why emotions helped to produce modern society. So in reexamination my use of this term is not inherently meaningless.


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13 Sep 2014, 5:35 pm

olympiadis wrote:
Charloz wrote:
Are they truly facts, or just your opinion that you present as fact because you feel very strongly about it?


I think technically he is correct in that emotions are not real things, - no substance. It is something I would classify as a system intelligence though because though not real, they can and do have measurable effects in the real world. It's a type of intelligent energy. I have been currently studying system intelligence.

I'm guessing that the poster you are responding to has a filter in his brain similar to mine where non-real things are processed totally differently than real things.
You may not filter your perceptions like this, and emotions may feel intuitively real as a rock to you. This is a big commonality among NTs, but since we are on a spectrum, there are variations among us as well.

He probably doesn't really feel strongly about it. It's just that all of the real data concerning certain emotions strongly suggests a certain reality about it, that without the bias of an intuition, is undeniable.

If/when new data presents itself he would likely adjust his belief to better match the data.

My impression was that he was simply contributing his view point to the discussion, probably because it was a bit different from the normal. After all, a collection of similar data that all fall into the known normal isn't really grounds for a discussion, or helpful.

It could be that in time his opinion about certain emotions or about kids in general will be modified based on some relevant observation.


I see you understand me better than the other posters thus far, and yes I don't feel strongly about it at all. Everything I internalize is predicated upon logic, and what can be derived from it.


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Last edited by MehruneMath on 13 Sep 2014, 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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13 Sep 2014, 5:35 pm

MehruneMath wrote:
I used the adjective "primitive", to exemplify the era I was referring to when discussing why emotions helped to produce modern society. So in reexamination my use of this term is not inherently meaningless.


I didn't say the statement was inherently meaningless, I said it was meaningless for you to refer to emotions as primitive (or almost any other descriptor, for that matter) if you thought that they weren't real. Like it would be meaningless to say that vampires are primitive, because vampires aren't real.



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13 Sep 2014, 5:42 pm

starkid wrote:
MehruneMath wrote:
I used the adjective "primitive", to exemplify the era I was referring to when discussing why emotions helped to produce modern society. So in reexamination my use of this term is not inherently meaningless.


I didn't say the statement was inherently meaningless, I said it was meaningless for you to refer to emotions as primitive (or almost any other descriptor, for that matter) if you thought that they weren't real. Like it would be meaningless to say that vampires are primitive, because vampires aren't real.


I understand what you're saying, I was describing something that doesn't physically exist. However what you're missing in this line of thought is that I was actually describing the chemical reactions. These chemical reactions do physically exist and produce these feelings. The term was used in conjunction with my statement about chemical reactions and how they assisted our primitive ancestors in morphing the world as it is today.


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