how do i get people to stop thinking im being condescending?

Post Reply New Topic

IRT thread title: I don't think you can, at least not completely or consistently.

You do not have to actively DO anything to get the responses you get. It's what you DON'T do that primarily fuels those reactions. You do not serve their identities, and you do not serve the hive-mind. The mind viruses these people host know how to detect those like you. They will try to correct you at first, in attempt to download the mind viruses to you. They will also reject or punish you if do not become more like them.

To them you do have an attitude. You think you are an individual at least equal to them in social hierarchy, and can operate outside of hierarchy without recognizing their positions within the structure.

Sheldon rocks!

If I sit like a crumbled heap in a chair, have limited eye contact, fiddle with my fingers, bounce my feet, either ramble or give short one word answers, unless you are Bill Gates smart, most likely you won't get the job.

The above doesn't scream team player or works well with others. And the way the job market is in the US, you have to sell yourself.

The gift of gab and BS will get your foot into the door for a job, more than flat out brilliance. Especially if you are one of 200 candidates. That was how many job applications my daughter's school had for one teaching position. I'm assuming the bulk of the teachers knew their stuff, and with everyone more or less same. You start picking personality types.

The teacher who won the job is Ms. SunnyShine extrovert, and is very active in the community with volunteering and working with people. She could sell ice to penguins.

It's no better in the hard sciences. As a former working chemist, I found this out first hand.

My two pennies worth of opinion.

So I have to dumb myself down to make NT's feel comfortable?

In effect, YES.

Unless you can find a way to live and work only among highly educated people, it's going to be much more efficient than trying to get them to understand that you mean no offense by the way you are.

When in the boonies, I speak hillbilly-ese. In my case, all I have to do is stop watching how I speak, and "What would you like for supper??" will naturally come out, "Y'all got inny idea what'cha'd like fer dinner??" Like I said, it's my naturalized speech pattern, and I enjoy speaking it as I associate it with strength, acceptance, and sensible thinking.

When in the 'burbs, I pay a lot of attention to speaking with a "TV voice." Common accent, speaking from the throat instead of through the nose, et cetera. And I DO NOT make comments about disliking the proximity of people, or the obsession with the newest and shiniest stuff, or anything else that is commonly "suburban" UNLESS THE PERSONS WITH WHOM I AM SPEAKING SAY IT FIRST.

Ditto the city. I HATE cities-- but if someone asks me what I think of theirs, I will praise the skyline, the diversity, the cultural opportunities, the availability of public transportation, whatever I can find to praise (even though what I actually think is that it is crowded, filthy, dirty, and scary, and I just want to do what I came for and leave).

lf I am asked for my opinion and do not know what I am "supposed" to say, I give a neutral compliment ("It is very nice" or "Quite pleasant" or similar). If I have to actually say what I actually think, and it might not be 100% praise, I preface it with a self-deprecating comment meant to imply that my thoughts are inherently less valid (or at least less educated, less informed, and less accurate) than those of the person with whom I am speaking.

If I absolutely MUST correct someone, I try very hard to preface it with a complement. "You're doing a really great job with that sandwich, but it would be better if you used mayonnaise instead of cold cream." Or, "Awesome job!" followed by, "Oh, no! I put the cold cream where the mayonnaise belongs! I'm so sorry!"

Here's the catch: You only do this with people like co-workers, assigned roommates, strangers on the street, and relatives that you need to get along with for three hours four times a year. You don't do it with close family that actually knows you, chosen friends, or prospective mates past about the second date. THOSE people can take you as you are, or go away. The other people, though-- you're either seeing them for too brief of a time for explanations to be efficient, or you are basically getting paid to get along with them. So you do whatever you can without physically endangering yourself or someone else, committing a crime, or taking the blame for a crime you didn't commit in order to make that happen.

Whats wrong with appearing condescending.

You start acting submissive or humble, and in a week these same people will start saying you lack confidence and have no back bone.

You can never win with these sorts of people.

They always want you playing their game as a novice, as they age you will learn they like to keep moving the goal posts just to stay on top.

Granted if you truly don't respect the people around you, your gonna have serious trouble.

I treat people like tigers. I don't give a dam about their opinions or feelings. But at the end of the day anyone can rip your throat out, respect the vulnerability and power of all peoples.

You don't necessarily have to dumb yourself down, but you have to make an effort to keep some things to yourself, which is slightly different. You don't HAVE to point out their errors, if there's actually no pressing need to. As others have said, most people don't like to be corrected. If they want to expand their knowledge, they will ASK, or they will pursue that on their own.

My brother got in all sorts of trouble for this, by correcting people's grammar. NOBODY enjoys that. Nobody is going to say, "gee thanks! I always wanted to know how wrong I was and how ignorant I sounded!"

I've had my own issues with that, like noticing someone was "wrong" about something and then going through enormous research to "prove" it to them. I'd get so obsessed with the research and the need to PROVE it that I lost sight of the fact that nobody cared except ME and nobody wanted to hear how "right" I was. I was acting like a total a-hole and in the moment, it's very hard for me to see it.

In general, the best way for me to avoid offending people is to simply minimize social contact with people who don't already know me and who therefore won't take my behavior personally. If I HAVE to talk to other people, then, yes, I tend to dumb myself down a bit. And putting on the act of a dumber, more affable person, is extremely exhausting.

If you are around really insecure NTs that you don't want any drama with, yeah.

Some of the advice given here doesn't sit right with me. You shouldn't have to dumb yourself down, or dress down, or make yourself less in any way just to make other people feel comfortable. But sometimes it's just easier that way. Really it's best if you're doing it for YOU, so you can feel more comfortable, not to make them comfortable. Like I wouldn't waste my breath correcting someone if I know they are just going to get mad at me about it.

Some people are always going to have a problem with something, because they are not happy with themselves or with life in general. You can bend over backwards to be nice and they will still find fault with you. If you start hiding how smart you are, or trying to be less attractive, or whatever to make them feel better, it's still not going to be enough to satisfy them. They will just keep trying to put you in a smaller and smaller box.

In jobs you will run into some really insecure managers who aren't satisfied with having good employees who show up to work and do their jobs like they are supposed to. In fact, it's ironic but almost nothing pisses them off more than that, because it shows you are capable of working independently. And they want to feel like they are the BOSS. They want to feel like everything you are doing right, is not because you are a good employee, but because they are such a great manager and they told you what to do. So if you are just being a normal employee doing your job, it will come across to them like you have an attitude, because you aren't seeking their instruction. If you try to stand up for yourself they will take that as more evidence of "having an attitude." And if you try to show them more respect, they will just ask for more and more and work you harder than the other people around you. Just ignore it if you can, because it's a no win situation.

Do you know, I can't think of ANY use of "I presume" that doesn't sound nasty and condescending. I LIKE really smart people. - my friends used to joke about my "geek fetish" - and I'd be put off by "I presume you mean Sodium Naproxen, right?" And it doesn't matter if you're a blue collar worker or a pharmacist. You're not expanding their knowledge because they don't CARE what the scientific name is. This is the age of Google - if they wanted to know the scientific name, they'd look it up.

Knowing something doesn't mean you have to say it. I think sometimes we feel a need to verbalize everything that goes on in our heads (I use to, now I don't say much of anything.) But the thing is, you don't have to. You can know that the person you are having a stupid conversation with is an idiot, but you don't have to say it. It doesn't make it any more or less real. Sometimes just knowing is enough.

Being able to get your point across in shorter words does not mean you are dumbing yourself down.
Being verbose isn't the same as being smart.

This is true and it's a much more difficult problem for some people. I know it's why I've never been successful staying at a "normal" job, nor has my brother. The social part of it is too difficult, even if we excel at the actual work.

I had this one job at a university library and I was really, really good at it. I started out just shelving book and doing customer service (working the window) but they knew I was really smart so the head librarian started to teach me how to to cataloguing and then the realized that I could read Russian so they had me start cataloguing this huge backlog of Russian-language music scores that nobody else could even read the titles of. I was a huge asset to their workroom (especially since they were still only paying me the "customer service" wage because to get paid for what I was *actually* doing, I'd have to have a library science degree.) Anyway. I wound up leaving that job because my co-workers and my manager wanted me to "play the game" which means coming to work but not actually doing any work. I was supposed to show up and then immediately NOT WORK, but rather stand around chatting to people and then occasionally PRETEND to work. Because that's what everyone else does, and if you don't, then they take offense and think "oh she thinks she's BETTER than us." Well, maybe I secretly did, but that's not why I wasn't hanging out with them. I wasn't hanging out with them because I don't enjoy chit-chat and I was at work to do my job and then leave. It has always been astounding to me how much time is wasted in the workplace with AVOIDING work to socialize. I realized that I wanted a job where I could just do my work in however much time I needed to do it, and then leave-- in other words, be an independent contractor. An upside to that is that usually if you are an independent contractor, you are an "outsider" or working alone anyway so nobody expects you to socialize too much.

^^^^^

This

just pretend that you are an idiot. it is easy to control the show when everyone thinks you're just an idiot. when people think you are not smart, they listen harder, and they hear more of what you say. it is not until the show is running the way you want it that they realize they were possibly guilty of underestimation, but by that time it does not matter any more.

Yep. I have been in that situation many times.

Also one time I had a job where I really liked my coworkers so I did want to talk to them. But they would use that against me too.

The only reason I've lasted as long as I have in my current job is because I work by myself. And still way too many games going on in this job too.

Ohhhhh boy, I sense a lot of eventual burnout from some of the people in this thread. I hope I'm wrong.

Refraining from frequently correcting people is definitely good (but not necessarily easy...), but you do NOT have to dumb down or act fake. You are not responsible for other people's insecurities. Unfortunately, you'll have to "play the game" to a certain extent in order to keep a job, but you do not have to be a fake NT. If NTs' people-reading skills are really as good as autism researchers make them sound, they'll be able to tell if you're purposely mimicking their tones/body language/whatever and will probably think you're making fun of them.