Seeing NTs as Empty Shells

Post Reply New Topic

Olympiadis: Sure, why not, I'll agree with that.

But, my personal opinion still stands. I don't necessarily mean 'insane' as in a mental illness, but I've been around almost 60 years dealing with the 'normal' world. And let's admit it, this world belongs to the NTs, and it's a cesspool. Wars, pollution, a large portion of the population starving, I could go on and on.

What I'm getting at is that they are the 'normal' ones and they run (and have messed up) the world. So, by logic and my observation of them and their world I can only come to the conclusion that 'normal' must mean insane.

And, for them to say that I am the one that's screwed up and that hopefully someday there will be a 'cure' so I can think like them, be like them, only adds to my belief that they must, in some way, be crazy.

Once again though, this is all just my opinion.

I'm actually very curious to know how you think, as my real life friend has said something strikingly similar to me in the past.



It is an illusion that the term 'Neurotypical' holds direct scientific value.

Of the NTs that you refer to, many would have ADHD or other neurological differences - and only the differences with associated labels are currently concerned.

In the context provided, I disagree with a claim that NTs rule the world, in that it suggestively highlights that the reason for war and pollution are a result of neurological wiring that autistic individuals strictly lack. I'm sure that if 99% of the world was autistic (rather than 1%), there would still be war and pollution. It also makes it difficult to define what would have to be described as NT 'sub-groups' as there are so many that do not support war, and ambitiously seek to control pollution. We're all human, I'll leave it at that.

I can't possibly understand your frustration (as I am an NT by social terms), but I can add my perspective, that everybody will have something 'screwed up' about them, in the subjective manner.

I hope this doesn't sound aggressive. I almost certainly do not have AS, but that does not mean that I will be free from all struggles to communicate.

I see everyone as an entirely new universe to try comprehend.
Some a blackholes with a risk of sucking all the energy.

It does and doesn't honestly..

If I lived that way, I think I'd be the empty shell, because 100% of the people I know are "NTs" and I don't want to be hypocritical because even when I knew autistic folk, I couldn't communicate with them and I still felt like an outsider among them. People's opinions do influence my own and I think it's really counter-productive of autism awareness to judge neurotypicals so harshly, honestly.

You're rather generous, aren't you? I think most are!

This is true but I'll still try the see star light on a cloudy night.
I am still learning to persist in getting to know people it's more a matter of knowing when to walk away. I tried isolation and that wasn't a good option either.

Norny: Good post, I agree with some of what you had to say and disagree with others.

As to whether or not the world would still be as messed up as it is if another group had primary control; we'll never know.

I agree that most people have something 'screwed up' about them BUT most would still fall somewhere under the NT 'label'.

And I agree with you that you can't possibly understand my frustration because I'm pretty sure you didn't grow up having almost everyone think you were stupid (my IQ puts me in the top 2% of the world population), or defective in some way. And I'm reasonably sure that people didn't look at you with pity or even contempt, speak to you like the family dog or try to beat you up when you were only 8 years old, break your finger and throw you in a ditch because you were different. Yeah, that's all a tad frustrating and only the first few years, it gets even better later on.

Anyway, I did say in my post that this was an opinion that I held based on 60 years living in a world that the majority do not perceive/think/experience life as I do. I offered nothing scientific, only my personal perception.

Nobody can see "all" of someone unless that someone chooses to allow you "inside." To tell you what they're thinking, what they're feeling, what they fear, what they dream of, what they love and what they hate.

NOBODY.

Anything else is just a guess-- sometimes a lucky guess, most of the time a guess with a greater or lesser degree of error.

It's easier for spectrumites to guess about each other, just as it's easier for NTs to guess about each other, because we/they have some fundamental processing in common...

...but even though it's more likely to be more right more often, it's still just a guess.

I've talked to a lot of people; most people have to go around all the time remembering and being reminded that people they don't know are, in fact, PEOPLE. Not two-dimensional stock characters in the play of one's own personal life, but actual people with thoughts and feelings and fears and prejudices and wishes and hopes and all of it that are going on inside their heads, behind the scenes.

Isn't that sad?? Doesn't it make you tired??

Makes you wonder why actually being open about what is in one's mind and heart is one of the greatest of social sins, doesn't it????

"To know a man well... very seldom leads to hate and often leads to love. Try to understand each other. You can't hate men if you know them." --John Steinbeck

Isolation? I never considered the word. Ewwww. Sounds horrible.
What I do is not isolation. I just prefer my own company.

It's not just that. Let me try to explain as best I can.

In all my life, from kindergarten until now, I never saw *the value* I guess you could say in other people. I've had a few beers tonight so I can be brutally open.

I have had friends in the past but they've always been friendships initiated by the other person. I've gone along with it but when it ends, I'm rather relieved (these days).

When I was a kid, people came and went. I noticed but didn't care.
I sound like a heartless monster but really, I'm not. I just don't need or want people in my life.
I have one friend (drinking buddy mainly) that I've known since primary school (around 9 years old). As far as I'm concerned, he's my only friend. We're blood brothers (before AIDS). I don't want or need any more friends. Sometimes, even he's too much.

What can I say?! I just don't feel like I belong here and I don't like the natives. I'd rather be with my cat or on my own. I'd rather be on my home planet. I'm weird. I'm different. I don't care. I just want to go home wherever that may be but it sure ain't here!

It helps me to read a post like this.

I did not suffer the extreme hardships that you did (nor have I as much life experience, I am ~20 years old) but I have had a share of abuse. When I claimed to not being able to understand your frustration, I was primarily referring to you being autistic and myself not. There are marked neurological differences between us, that would create a great disparity between our perceptions.

The last sentence resonates with me, in that I feel I often have had to say the same in the past (exception being the 60 years). Although I might not make it sound (appear?) like it, I appreciate alternative points of view such as yours. I enjoy discussing such things, only my problem is that (based on past experience) I tend to come across as rough or provocative, hence my final statement in the previous post. I never intend to undermine anybody's struggles or something akin to that.

EDIT - I didn't originally include this in the post but I figured it would provide some backstory as to why I hold my perspective (similar to how you presented yours):

As a person with OCD, I had times where I thought I was completely insane, and as did my family. Fortunately, my obsessions/compulsions were not so publically displayed (they primarily affected me at home), however other difficulties that come with the disorder (such as poor spatial memory) were not known until recently, and they caused me a lot of conflict. Being gay has undoubtedly resulted in far more negatives, but not of physical nature (I was never beat up for it, but have my lifetime's worth of psychological damage). My family always reminded me how they 'hoped I was not gay' (with variation, and coarse language of course), and due to such heavy repression other consequences arose (e.g. social anxiety disorder). Having a tic disorder isn't entirely awful as I can manage it by concentrating on other things, but it has been a huge problem in the past (particularly primary school years, imagine snorting/grunting etc. around everyone). I won't go in to detail, but there is a slew of other stuff. It is probably the reason I dislike seeing a majority referred to as 'NT', as it completely relegates all issues that I have had (and that I know others have had).

That disconnected feeling can trigger an anxiety attack with me, where I start freaking out that there are people all around me, so many people with so many different lives, opinions, cultures and it overwhelms me. I feel like it's a coping mechanism to not see "people," so to speak. Unless a situation calls for it, anyway, it's just plain easier to go through a store ignoring everyone, feeling like they're just... empty shells.

it doesn't panic me because:

a) I'm aware that it's not real;
and
b) I rather enjoy feeling even more distant/disconnected from them;

I like being different. I don't want to be a part of this antediluvian, scared, violent, narrow minded group of animals who think they're "Gods" gift on Earth. The Arogance!! !

Leave me out! I'm glad I'm not from here!! !

Norny; Thanks for the post, it does put the original in a bit of a different context. I had put you in the box with all of the other people who say, 'I understand how you feel' when they obviously can't. I'll go ahead and re-file under 'he probably has some idea' about what it may be like.

Btw, I also have a mild tic disorder as well. And stutter, not so much now but it was horrific as a child. While I feel my life has turned out well; have a loving wife & children, nice home, work to do, etc. I would not have wished my life experiences on anyone. But, that was also a different time; people now seem much more accepting of differences than they were in my generation. Still could be better but it's getting there.

I did have those views, when I was younger, but luckily age, experience - and lately a nice little label made me think otherwise

I suppose I see NT's I don't know that way, but I don't actually believe they are, because NT's I do know well (like my mother, and two of my kids) aren't. I think they choose to present themselves that way; that the society they've created runs most smoothly when everyone squelches their individuality and acts like a robot.

It's funny, because they claim to be interested in people, empathic and all that but they don't actually want to be bothered with anyone's genuine thoughts and feelings so they agree to wear these simplistic social masks.

I also have OCD. How does yours manifest? I'm a germaphobe. Public toilets are a pet hate of mine! Fluoxetine helped with that but I still wash my hands until they bleed sometimes.
I'm also a counter. I'm a neat freak. Things that aren't even, I need to make even. Things that aren't straight, I need to straighten them. Pictures hanging on walls that aren't straight, I need to straighten, even after my unfortunate event. There was a massive framed painting of Jesus and the Madonna on the wall in this place I was at and it was crooked. I went to straighten it and it fell off of the wall. Oopsies! Luckily I was in a mental hospital and it got overlooked. No harm done!