Seeing NTs as Empty Shells

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Well, we have no way of knowing that we would do better, although I suspect that in some ways, we would. I mean, for instance, though we are capable of lying, manipulation, cliquishness and herd mentality, it seems to me we're considerably less prone to them.
On the other hand, a world of people with executive dysfunction would not run smoothly, which, in some contexts, could be very dangerous.

It has changed all throughout my life, so I will categorize it based on what age I would have been close to for each change:

1-5 - I don't have any recollection of behaviours at this point in time. I cannot say for sure if I was affected then or not.

6-11 - I had an intense need for what I called 'fairness'. If I accidentally tapped one knee, I had to tap the other. If I played with one toy, I had to play with another in the exact same fashion, if it was of similar design. It actually amazes me (currently) how systematic I was with that. Around this time I also used to have disastrous religious thoughts (despite not being religious). I had an excessive need for ritual within my video games, for example in a game where I controlled creatures, when they ran out of life, they all had to die in a line in a certain spot, and if that did not happen I would crash the game and restart from an auto-save so that I could retry. My memory hoarding also began around this time, and it heavily involved the creature game, where I had to name every generation of creatures exactly the same as the previous, and record as many details as I could about each onto a piece of paper (a genetic tree). Among others, I was unable to stop repeating certain things in my head (I remember yelling in my mind to shut up), and I was constantly in fear of robbers and my parents being killed. I would have 'typing compulsions', where I would have an irresistible urge to type something like 'XD LoL F*** S*** and P***', followed by every emoticon I could think of.

11+ What could be OCD-related tics began at this age, where I would have frequent urges to shuffle my shoulders, or rotate my neck or something else entirely until it felt 'just-right'. Typically I would be making these movements all day and it frustrated me and caused immense physical discomfort. Because my mum cried so intensely about this, I replaced them with grunts and snorts and other throat clearing procedures that I still do today. Certain obsessions from before (a need for symmetry and preservation of memory) still persist, and relevant compulsions (such as touching an object many times and smelling it repeatedly, or touching every corner of a room that I will no longer see). I also have a strict shower routine (that is excessive) due to an obsessive fear of smelling or feeling bad. I get stuck very frequently with even feeling slightly physically uncomfortable. University work (and other organizing) takes far longer than it should due to my need for complete logical consistency. I am also a heavy doubter (have had periods of checking/counting).

My most strange obsessions however are my involvement in things like autism. For the past year, in almost every social interaction I have, I have had constant intrusive thoughts that concern autism. For example, I will rock back and forth and instantly think of autism, knowing that I don't have it, but keep doing it anyway. I will hear a sound that doesn't match other sounds that are playing, and assume a possibility that maybe it was an auditory hallucination (caused by schizophrenia, which I 100% know I do not have). I suppose these are mental compulsions to re-assure myself that I am not insane. They are almost like autistic special interests in that they feel 'all-encompassing'.

It is probably also note-worthy that I likely have body dysmorphic disorder as co-morbid with OCD, as I have always being disgusted by the hairs on my body and constantly shaved them (I am male). I have not worn shorts in around 6 years simply because I have hairs on my legs. Then there is also the constant doubt that I don't have OCD, even when I clearly do.

Don't forget Olympiadis's constant banging on about the "hive mind", on top of NTs having no mind, being insane, and being seen as pets.
And people wonder why Aspies have a bad reputation? Honestly.

Oh wow, I do all of these things too. I don't think I have OCD, but do many other autistics do this?

WOW! Thank you for sharing that with me.

My OCD is also generous, like yours. It provides me with THE MOST HORRIBLE thoughts. Thanks OCD.

For example, I will be stroking my baby cat while she eats (she only trusts me - especially when she's eating) and I'll get the most horrifying horrific thoughts like "Pick her up, carry her to the kitchen, get a knife out of the draw and cut her throat!". I can't shake the thoughts. (crying). I don't know how to stop them but I DO KNOW THAT'S NOT ME! I'M NOT A MONSTER!! !!

In the past (especially before I knew what was causing it), it used to cause me such pain. Even though I knew myself very well and knew I wouldn't even harm a fly, I thought "Am I a psychopath?"

I'm a pacifist. I was even a Vegan for some time because I don't believe in harming any other creature and despite being naturally weird and muscly, I avoided many fights when I was at school because if I wanted to, I could have really caused major destruction. I held back because I couldn't even hurt the bullies.

The thoughts range from "Kill yourself" to "Kill your family"

My first dance with OCD was in the form of "Pure-O". Primarily Obsessive thoughts. I was 17. Me and my family went out in the sticks to this cabin miles from everywhere. They were all out by the fire in the backyard and I was in the house all alone (as usual) and I had this thought come over me, "I could take a knife from the kitchen drawer, kill everyone and no one would know for months". That was my first experience with OCD and I just couldn't shake the thought.

Now I know what causes the thoughts and behaviors, I try to reason with myself "It's not real" and I've reached a stage (with the aid of Fluoxetine) where I can take the thoughts for what they are.

Now I'm older (47), I know what a good person I am, I know I still couldn't hurt a fly (and I don't) but it still saddens me to be plagued with these thoughts. I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy. Life has a way of kicking you in the guts no matter how nice you are.

At least I have Asperger's. I may have social impairment but fortunately for me, AS struck out on that one because I don't give a toss about socialising and it provides me with many many benefits including Hyperfocus, Special Interests, Honesty, Loyalty etc. Not sure if I can blame Asperger's for my high IQ but I know I'm intelligent.

I can't write any more at the moment. I need a rest. TBC.

Once again, thank you for sharing with me.

I do understand this 100% and do not think it sounds heartless. There are very few people I connect with and so I had given up trying to find them but now I am trying again. They are rare and it is pointless having "friends" you cannot connect with as that is just another form of isolation. Time alone can be okay but sooner or alter I need human connection to bounce thoughts off.

..and you have one friend which is great.

Right. Rational thought is very controlled with much inhibition and happens within conscious thought. Most people (what I describe as NTs) primarily use intuitive thought instead. It happens much quicker and without the same inhibitions.

If you process things intuitively through identity, then most things can be associated with sex.
Physical stimulation that brings pleasure would be very easily related to sex for the average person I think. NTs use a great many deceptions to get what they want, so it would not be unheard of for an NT to ask for sexual attention indirectly by asking to be tickled.
In contrast, Seven of Nine would directly ask "would you like to copulate?".
This approach is without deception and requires no intuitive information or computation.

I very much identify with the experience you describe, and share some of the thoughts.

Does this make sense?
Systems that are based on imaginary things are only sustainable in the imagination and not in the real world. The imagination does not have to obey physical law.

It's an opinion that I share. And here's someone else who agrees with you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_dJNzDo8SQ

But I would say that the world is not actually run by the majority of people. It's run by a minority, mostly made up of psychopaths and narcissists, who have found their way into the highest positions in society. The problem is that the majority allow those few to rise to the top, and imitate their behaviors, because they have strong beliefs in social hierarchy.

I'm perfectly aware that other people have minds/thoughts/opinions that differ from mine.

However, most of the time I neither notice, nor do I care.

You're describing in more superficial terms what I describe as effects of hive-mind control.




I would be open to trying to explain it to you so that you could understand the concept of the hive-mind, unless you are content in your initial dismissal of it.

The rest of your claims seem to be intentionally out of context so as to seem absurd, and so they appear as a strawman fallacy.
I never made the claim that NTs had no mind, or that I saw them as pets.

Luzhin made a complete enough argument that suggested the collective behaviors of an NT run society are illogical, unsustainable, and in effect insane. I use other arguments, but the claim is technically sound.

I first saw this concept explained this way by the WP member "JBW".
I spent a great deal of time thinking this through to determine the validation of these observations and at this point I still cannot find where this claim is wrong. Further, over time I have discovered other sub-processes that all support the claim.
I initially had the commonly shared hangup about using terms like psychopath, or thinking in terms of psychopathy, and so there was a lot there in front of me that I just hadn't noticed before. At it's base psychopathy is exercised all around us daily. That everyone is not a serial killer has no bearing at all on that fact.
I also do not believe that most people are psychopaths, though they are clearly capable of emulating psychopaths. There is clearly a huge amount of emotional suppression going on.
The "feel-good" from the chemical reward pathway in the brain is the one thing that allows ordinary people to disregard their real emotions. The effect is similar to that of a drug addict acting out of character while high.

Olympiadis, your posts on the behaviour of the system intelligence of typical society, what you refer to as the hive-mind, have crystalised my thinking around this topic.

Most people have a hard time understanding the emergent behaviour of a complex system that consists of the actions and interactions performed by many agents. Hence quite a number of those who become aware of the unbelievably cruel behavioural potential of humans have a tendency to look for "puppet masters" and resort to some kind of "conspiracy theory" as a way of coping and understanding.

I contend that there is no need for any conspiracy theory, and there is also no need for a large number of psychopaths. It is sufficient for a very small proportion of the population to have psychopathic traits (in the range of 1% - 5%) in order to propagate memes that are highly corrosive for society at large. What all these memes have in common is the construction of a social gradient (hierarchy), and a mechanism for propagating the social gradient in a target culture. In their simplest form a psychopathic meme consists of two social labels that demarcate a particular group from the rest of society, coupled with a value judgement regarding one of the labels.

One can not even blame the psychopaths, because they simply act on their innate instincts, and they don't form one cohesive group that has conspired against the rest of humanity. In fact, it would be logical for each psychopath to focus on mainly neurotypical victims, as that particular group is highly receptive to any new social memes that promise a path to the next step on the social status ladder. In contrast, other psychopaths are well equipped to see through the social engineering and represent potential competition.

The extent to which (typical) humans are inclined to simply imitate others or to unthinkingly follow rules set by others has been validated by numerous psychological experiments.

Aspies may be particularly naive in terms of social interaction, but we instinctively question rules imposed by others. Our specific vulnerability lies in our creativity and capability to innovate, which is fuelled by our special interests and intrinsic motivation. We work day and night even without any promise of receiving social rewards (money, status etc.). Psychopaths regularly seek out the results of our work, in the hope of being able to use it as a tool in the construction of their next social pyramid scheme.

I'd say your perception is very unreal. Just because you don't see or aren't aware doesn't mean others are just cardboard props on your life stage. It's very out of sync with what is going on around you, like you are in a isolated box. In short, very unhealthy perspective.

Dianthus: Thanks for the video link. What you had to say makes sense and would not surprise me one bit.

The perception makes the world around you seem unreal. The isolated box is real.
That's just my perspective.