If you know ur regarded 2b"weird", why dont change

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ZenDen
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23 Oct 2014, 8:53 am

League_Girl wrote:
kiwiya wrote:
Sorry if my question is offensive, but as a NT who is interested in autism, I am a little puzzled.

At first, I thought people with autism didn't know they have problems in communication. But as I log on this forum, I found out that: wow, these are supersuper normal, rational and logistic people!

So if you guys know you are "weird", why dont you try to act "normally"?



Because no one wants to change, it's human nature. We all want to be accepted and we only change if we want to. If what we are doing is harmless, why change it?


I think you have the essence of the problem.

I sometimes like to compare us growing up as being similar to being raised by wolves.

Once the aspie (for example) has grown past the major "life-learning stage" of their life there are defenses (read: lessons from life experiences) in place that are hard to change.

And the reason for the difficulty is as you say: "Because no one wants to change, it's human nature", although I take this to mean you aren't saying that one day everyone will say "I will not change" but it's instead an automatic negative reaction toward changing the results of your "life experiences" that have become a part of you. Why would you change? You have at this time developed a working "Theory of Mind" that helps you survive (we don't know it isn't like other people's).

So (IMHO) the thing we lack is desire. No, it isn't that we lack "some level" of desire (we may all desire some change....I know I do) but the desire of a baby animal learning about the world, with all "learning gates" (whatever that might be) open wide to accumulate experience to guide their existence, is not equivalent to: "I'd like to change."

So now I've been thinking about how to open the gate again by "manipulating desire" as my tool.



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23 Oct 2014, 8:54 am

Aspinator wrote:
That is like saying if someone has the flu, why not pretend you don't have the flu; it will then just go away.


Great metaphor!

But flu is something out of control, except with treatment and medicine.
I am just wondering if having autism is also out of one's control, such as a running nose



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23 Oct 2014, 9:00 am

glider18 wrote:
Trying to act "normally"? What is normal anyway?

For me, being normal is being who "I" am and not what someone else is. I function best when I am "me" and not putting on an "act" to be what I am not. If I were to act "normal," then I would not be showing those around me the true me.


What is normal? I think there are norm-referenced test that presents the answer.

Of course, being who you are is what everybody hopes for. But you can also come out of your comfort zone and actively try to fit in.

I've heard that there are people who develop a self-defense system so well that nobody notices that they are with autism. Could this be possible?



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23 Oct 2014, 9:14 am

Also keep in mind an adage:

"When you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person."

Autism is called a Spectrum for an excellent reason. Objective research will confirm what I stated.



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23 Oct 2014, 9:23 am

kiwiya wrote:

I've heard that there are people who develop a self-defense system so well that nobody notices that they are with autism. Could this be possible?


At some extent, yes, some of us can pretend to be neurotypicals but not effectively and not always.
Depends a lot from the person. There are traits that i can't avoid don't matter how much i'm aware of them or how much i try to hide them.
This is something very complex to discuss, in my opinion, because every autistic person is different. It's hard (actually i think it's impossible) to have a list of what difficulties we can overcome or even a generic way to do that. Not for us.
Also, pretending that we are NT can be something that dry all our energy. There's a video called "Aspies don't have emotions...???" from a youtuber called TheAnMish. It's a video where she try to express how tiring it is to have to fake something that you are not to fit in the world. It may gave you some insight of how bad it can be.



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23 Oct 2014, 9:30 am

sharkattack wrote:
kiwiya wrote:
Sorry if my question is offensive, but as a NT who is interested in autism, I am a little puzzled.

At first, I thought people with autism didn't know they have problems in communication. But as I log on this forum, I found out that: wow, these are supersuper normal, rational and logistic people!

So if you guys know you are "weird", why dont you try to act "normally"?


I have Aspergers also known as high functioning Autism.

Sensory overload is behind a lot of our problems for us the world is too bright too load and too fast this because our brains don't filter out irrelevant se sensory input like NTs.

We have to hyper focus on things we do and we find it difficult to multask.
I can listen to what you are saying for example but I may miss your body language or tone.

In return because we have missed all this information we never learn how to emulate NT behaviour body language tone of voice.

So called experts say we don't understand sarcasm but I understand it just fine I just have a hard time telling when some people are being sarcastic.

I engage in sarcasm myself but a lot of people have mistaken this for me being serious over the years because I deliver it in a dead pan way with no body language and a flat tone with a flat expression on my face.

That is why we are mistaken for being rude or odd.

So called experts say we lack empathy but I call bull on this one too.
I have yet to meet an NT would can understand the point of view of an autistic mind.

As regards people with autism who have more difficulties I still find they understand people with Aspergers better then NT people.

As regards acting normal here is our problem in a conversation for example.
All out attention is taken up on taken in what the other person is saying and what our reply will be.
Our minds do not take in the other person's body language tone of voice or expression.

Now all of the above is not black and white but you get the idea and on top of all that we have to think about our expression tone of voice and body language.

Your question is not offensive but it is exasperating as how can we explain anything so complex to NTs when they just get hung up on something we are missing in the non verbal sense instead of listening to what we are saying.

I would be genuinely interested in you reply as you did take the effort to ask the question a rare thing for an NT. :)




Hi, shark
I'd love to know about how you understand sarcasm as you brought it up.
If you do not know when people are using sarcasm, and people don't understand your sarcasm, maybe you have comprehended it in another way.

And you are right that it is hard for NTs to understand your feeling, thus we should strengthen communication:):)



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23 Oct 2014, 9:32 am

I wasn't really able to discern sarcasm, irony, etc., until pretty late in my adulthood (about my 30's)



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23 Oct 2014, 9:39 am

It's kind of a mixed bag. Learning to be a better person and communicate clearly so that you can get though life is important, I think, but we have a sense of personal integrity, too. We have habits that are comfortable, styles that feel natural, ways that make sense, and values that are dear to us. When acting, people are generally aware that it's an act.

The difference between many NTs and people on the spectrum is that NTs add a dash to appear as a better employee, a more likable person, or avoid conflict, while people on the spectrum (in addition to all that) may act just to feel like valid human beings or avoid becoming a target. We're very aware that what's underneath our conscious attempts to fit in isn't wanted, and that can make it hard to enjoy friendships.

At the same time, the conventional wisdom is always to "be yourself". The part they don't add is, "Unless yourself is weird, difficult, or in any way inconvenient to the majority."



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23 Oct 2014, 9:46 am

r84shi37 wrote:

Don't worry. You're question isn't offensive.

I think that for the most part just about every aspie knows they are different. The thing is that appearing normal for you is effortless. To appear normal for an aspie can be very difficult. For instance, you probably look people in the eye without even trying. Many(most?) aspies have to consciously force themselves to look others in the eye and even when they do it is very uncomfortable. Now lets use special interests (obessions) as an example. I'm sure that you like doing specific things that most other people aren't as interested in and don't enjoy as much. But most NTs won't be kept up for hours at night thinking about it. If I'm absorbed in something and one of my parents calls me to go to the store or do a chore I feel intense frustration because I want to keep working on my project. I force myself to leave the project and appear content with it... but on the inside I'm frustrated. It takes effort to not go back to it right when I get the chance. So yes, we can act... but it's not easy to do.

In a nutshell: Acting normal is easier said than done.


Hey, great examples! Sometimes these reluctant moments happen to me as well. There must be a barrier between being introvert and autistic. So where is the line?



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23 Oct 2014, 9:51 am

kiwiya wrote:
glider18 wrote:
Trying to act "normally"? What is normal anyway?

For me, being normal is being who "I" am and not what someone else is. I function best when I am "me" and not putting on an "act" to be what I am not. If I were to act "normal," then I would not be showing those around me the true me.


What is normal? I think there are norm-referenced test that presents the answer.

Of course, being who you are is what everybody hopes for. But you can also come out of your comfort zone and actively try to fit in.

I've heard that there are people who develop a self-defense system so well that nobody notices that they are with autism. Could this be possible?


My answer for "normal" is based on what is "normal" for me. It is the way I think, act, behave, associate with others, etc. "Normal" will be different things for different people since no two people on this earth are alike.

Trying to fit in causes me anxiety, therefore I maintain a lifestyle that I feel comfortable with, one that is my world. I have a wife, two sons, and parents who live close to me.


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23 Oct 2014, 9:55 am

kiwiya wrote:
Sorry if my question is offensive, but as a NT who is interested in autism, I am a little puzzled.

At first, I thought people with autism didn't know they have problems in communication. But as I log on this forum, I found out that: wow, these are supersuper normal, rational and logistic people!

So if you guys know you are "weird", why dont you try to act "normally"?

The only normal people are those you don't know very well. Some of us prefer being authentic. Besides, we are statistically superior to NTs in honesty,creativity...Why should we pretend to be inferior?


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23 Oct 2014, 10:06 am

sharkattack wrote:
The OP never came back this seems like they want to rant but not listen.

OP your question has been addressed have you no response? :roll:


What does OP mean?



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23 Oct 2014, 10:10 am

Original/first Poster. You were the first poster on this thread.



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23 Oct 2014, 10:40 am

kiwiya wrote:
sharkattack wrote:
kiwiya wrote:
Sorry if my question is offensive, but as a NT who is interested in autism, I am a little puzzled.

At first, I thought people with autism didn't know they have problems in communication. But as I log on this forum, I found out that: wow, these are supersuper normal, rational and logistic people!

So if you guys know you are "weird", why dont you try to act "normally"?


I have Aspergers also known as high functioning Autism.

Sensory overload is behind a lot of our problems for us the world is too bright too load and too fast this because our brains don't filter out irrelevant se sensory input like NTs.

We have to hyper focus on things we do and we find it difficult to multask.
I can listen to what you are saying for example but I may miss your body language or tone.

In return because we have missed all this information we never learn how to emulate NT behaviour body language tone of voice.

So called experts say we don't understand sarcasm but I understand it just fine I just have a hard time telling when some people are being sarcastic.

I engage in sarcasm myself but a lot of people have mistaken this for me being serious over the years because I deliver it in a dead pan way with no body language and a flat tone with a flat expression on my face.

That is why we are mistaken for being rude or odd.

So called experts say we lack empathy but I call bull on this one too.
I have yet to meet an NT would can understand the point of view of an autistic mind.

As regards people with autism who have more difficulties I still find they understand people with Aspergers better then NT people.

As regards acting normal here is our problem in a conversation for example.
All out attention is taken up on taken in what the other person is saying and what our reply will be.
Our minds do not take in the other person's body language tone of voice or expression.

Now all of the above is not black and white but you get the idea and on top of all that we have to think about our expression tone of voice and body language.

Your question is not offensive but it is exasperating as how can we explain anything so complex to NTs when they just get hung up on something we are missing in the non verbal sense instead of listening to what we are saying.

I would be genuinely interested in you reply as you did take the effort to ask the question a rare thing for an NT. :)




Hi, shark
I'd love to know about how you understand sarcasm as you brought it up.
If you do not know when people are using sarcasm, and people don't understand your sarcasm, maybe you have comprehended it in another way.

And you are right that it is hard for NTs to understand your feeling, thus we should strengthen communication:):)


I thing our sarcasm is the same and I understand it.
I do however have a hard time telling what mood people are in.

People may use sarcasm to be funny or as a way of attacking somebody I have a hard time understanding the context in which the sarcasm is intended at times.

Anybody saying they really enjoyed the Star Wars prequel trilogy for example that screams sarcasm.



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23 Oct 2014, 11:34 am

kiwiya wrote:
Sorry if my question is offensive, but as a NT who is interested in autism, I am a little puzzled.

At first, I thought people with autism didn't know they have problems in communication. But as I log on this forum, I found out that: wow, these are supersuper normal, rational and logistic people!

So if you guys know you are "weird", why dont you try to act "normally"?


Some try to, but it's a matter of functionality for most. In other words, it's not that people don't want to change, it's that they physically cannot. That's probably one of the more common misconceptions about people on the Autistic Spectrum (when people think we don't try).
I can't speak for anyone else on the spectrum, but in my experience, trying to act like everyone else will always end in failure, for one specific reason; I'm not like everyone else, and so I cannot understand them individually. I can predict human behaviors as a whole (and I'm usually right), but if I were to try to understand a specific person, based on nothing more than a social experience (which is quite different for a lot of us), then I can't do it because I don't know them.
And this lack/failure/issue to communicate goes both ways (as I'm sure you now know), NT's can't understand us, so to them we're strange and act weird, and most expect us to conform for their comfort.

On that note, I for one, will never change who I am to please someone else, they can either accept me or not. I am who I am because of the experiences I've had, if I changed that, I'd change how I see people, and that would just make it easier for people to take advantage of me again.


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23 Oct 2014, 11:48 am

ZenDen wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
kiwiya wrote:
Sorry if my question is offensive, but as a NT who is interested in autism, I am a little puzzled.

At first, I thought people with autism didn't know they have problems in communication. But as I log on this forum, I found out that: wow, these are supersuper normal, rational and logistic people!

So if you guys know you are "weird", why dont you try to act "normally"?



Because no one wants to change, it's human nature. We all want to be accepted and we only change if we want to. If what we are doing is harmless, why change it?


I think you have the essence of the problem.

I sometimes like to compare us growing up as being similar to being raised by wolves.

Once the aspie (for example) has grown past the major "life-learning stage" of their life there are defenses (read: lessons from life experiences) in place that are hard to change.

And the reason for the difficulty is as you say: "Because no one wants to change, it's human nature", although I take this to mean you aren't saying that one day everyone will say "I will not change" but it's instead an automatic negative reaction toward changing the results of your "life experiences" that have become a part of you. Why would you change? You have at this time developed a working "Theory of Mind" that helps you survive (we don't know it isn't like other people's).

So (IMHO) the thing we lack is desire. No, it isn't that we lack "some level" of desire (we may all desire some change....I know I do) but the desire of a baby animal learning about the world, with all "learning gates" (whatever that might be) open wide to accumulate experience to guide their existence, is not equivalent to: "I'd like to change."

So now I've been thinking about how to open the gate again by "manipulating desire" as my tool.


I am confused at your response, are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?


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