First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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Not one bit comfortable with it. I don't buy that AS is autism. And unlike what some think that is not denial or elitism. I don't have less respect for those with autism than I do aspies or people here with other diagnosis like Tourette and bipolar. It doesn't mean that AS can't be severe. It just means it's not autism.
There are aspies here who say they identified with autism the moment they heard of it. I have never felt that way. On the contrary, I heard of Asperger's for the first time on a TV program about one guy with it, and I found I related to him. Not long after I read an article about it in a newspaper and the facts-box called it an autism spectrum disorder, so I dismissed it until I came across it again by accident some years later, and found out more about its details and that far from everyone thought it was autism. Had DSM-V been in affect back then, I would't have pursued it or given it another thought. I suspect undiagnosed adults might stay undiagnosed as a result of DSM-V.

As someone who never did anything mentioned in the commentary and examples here: http://www.ageofautism.com/2014/11/scre ... istic.html ...
As someone who personally and whose family (yes, I asked) doesn't recognize this: http://www.wrongplanet.net/article440.html ...
As someone who never rocked and didn't stim a lot, just fidgeted with things and drummed my fingers, whose only sensory issue is being particular about food, someone who isn't nuts about change but can take it and even sometimes crave it, never had any meltdowns, and only rarely suffers shutdown (information overload, emotional overload), went to mainstream school and needed more help in math but was also class best in 4 subjects without savant abilities, as someone who is into fiction and had pretend play, thinks mostly verbally, never been a toe walker (ouch!), never lacked understanding of danger, someone who has all the nuances and spectrum of emotions (but not always the same reactions or feelings as NTs would in a given situation), talked and hit the early milestones on time, and liked being picked up and held when I was little, and didn't always understand what an expression meant, but knew it was a figure of speech and not to be taken literally...
Autism simply is not what I have.

Obsessions, concentration difficulties, inability to multitask, awkwardness and social skills deficits do not equal autism. Just because they have lumped us into that category right now, doesn't mean it's correct. Sula Wolff spoke up for merging Asperger's and schizoid personality. It has been talk about the overlaps between AS and NLD, and AS and ADD and ADHD.

There even was a study that showed what is self-evident to me: we don't have the same type of brain wiring. Aspies differ from both NTs and autists. http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/08/0 ... ces-found/
I know some think that the differences are so minor that they don't matter. I think I might as well say that I'm NT, because the brain differences are so minor they don't matter.
I'm not NT and I'm not autistic. I'm aspie, which is different from both.

Off-topic but: Lorna Wing thought autism was more than one thing. I am sure the future will find that likewise Asperger's is more than one condition too, seeing how different we are from each other (especially when it comes to being logical and being emotional). I don't want fewer categories, I want more so it's as accurate as possible.



No, I needed to know for sure. I was near obsessed with it. (Well, by NT standards I was obsessed with it, but not by aspie standards.)

Last edited by Skilpadde on 13 Nov 2014, 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

I have a bit of a question. The other day, I mentioned to my mother that I was feeling off and went to my room. She came up later and said hello, to which I likewise replied in a dull voice. She asked me to give her my dirty clothes, and I said, "Okay", in another dull voice. She got angry at me, thinking that I was complaining about my chores... I thought I was using proper nonverbal communication but she said I wasn't.

(I am Aspie and she us NT btw.)

Is there a question here? I think you may have intended to imply one, but I can't find it.

I'm a neurotypical person, and I believe my style ot thinking is quite different from the one you describe. I don't have the memory capacity to "read aloud" from pages I've read when explaining things. Instead I read and form a general idea about the subject matter that I then explain.

When I plan, I don't see excel sheets. Rather, I picture myself doing the things I plan in brief flashes, sort of like fast-forwarding a movie. I then memorize the words describing the things I am to do (for instance "go to the bank, then the shop" etc).

I seldom think in music, but when I do I only "hear" the music in my head. No graphs or colours. When I listen to music I only hear the music and feel emotions associated with it, sometimes remembering moments in time associated with the music.

I don't know if this is a "neurotypical" thinking style, but it's the eay my brain works.

Thank you

I know that one too, sometimes,- thinking seqences.

If more people wrote in this thread, I believe, that we would see many overlaps and perhaps only a few, characteristic differences.

Thank you. I'm NT and my 4-year old son is presently undergoing an investigation to discern a possible autsism/aspie diagnosis. I'm very glad that we get this opportunity, and to me it doesn't matter either way - I just want to know, as a diagnosis will probably help me optimize my parenting approach. My son's father -who I also suspect has a mild form of AD - on the other hand is reluctant to adressing the issue, and the subject of him possibly being diagnosed as well is out of the question. I find this sad and frustrating, as I think a diagnosis on his part would help us relate to each other and to our son with a greater understanding.

Yes, it´s sad. Especially many men tend to be reluctant, - possibly because it is still looked at as something close to "mental illness".
When children are dxéd, most of the times it turns out, that one of the parents or one/several of their close relatives is on the spectrum too without ever knowing it.
Maybe your husband will follow, when he discovers, that being on the spectrum isn´t an illness.

to NTs and Aspies: general reply to lots of the communication questions between aspies and NTs (for parent-child, friendship, workplace, and romantic relationships - some hopefully useful practical tips for both sides!

ItsMe7: it's very nice to hear something positive about young NT/aspie relationships - i'm an NT girl (21) and dating an aspie boy same age for over half a year now. i have to say, i couldn't wish for a better boyfriend and certainly hope that this will last!
clearly, though, we have had some things to deal with specifically related to communication between NT/aspie - here are some general tips i have for understanding and getting along (based on my experience with my aspie boyfriend):

NTs: be DIRECT. when my aspie bf does something that upsets me, i tell him. example: we hadn't seen each other in a while because he was abroad. then he came back and for the first two weeks, even though we were practically living next to each other, only came to see me twice and very shortly. i was really upset because i'd been looking forward to a reunion, and it wasn't a busy time for either of us. so i sat him down with a speech something along those lines "i have to talk to you about something. you know, i haven't seen you in 4 weeks and i missed you, and i'd really been looking forward to a reunion. however, in the last two weeks, it has really hurt my feelings that you haven't made more of an effort to see me, despite the fact that this is probably the least busy we'll be in a very long time and you haven't had any other obligations. i'm upset about this and i want you to fix this situation". in the ensuing conversation, it turned out that he'd gotten into a routine of 'not seeing me' and found it hard to get out of it. so, naturally, i told him that "i'm not disappointed with you, and i'm not angry with you, i just wanted to tell you this early on because it does need to change". this is an important point as well NTs: never assume that it's lack of affection or caring, even if it seems impossible to be something else. ask for clarification and you'll be pleasantly surprised

NTs: ask questions!
NTs: ask your aspie child/coworker/partner/friend what they would like you to do when they're upset. you'll get a very straight answer, stick to it. if they want to be left alone, it is not in your place to decide they secretly wish you'd stay - remember that generally speaking, aspies are very direct and won't lie or deceive, so take their word for it.

Aspies: ask questions!
1. if you're unsure of whether an NT is feeling bad, don't do nothing. this happened with me and my aspie bf once, and i got a bit upset that he 'ignored' me. we talked about it later, he explained that at the time he didn't know what to do. so he asked me exactly what he should do if this happens again, and i told him exactly what i'd want to hear ("what's going on?"). this phrase is quite useful, because if you misread the sign and the NT is fine, they'll just think you're being super-observant (always a bonus point!). in any case, try to avoid doing 'nothing' as that might be interpreted as lack of caring. NTs typically want people around when they're unhappy, but to make sure just ask the relevant NT.
2. if you're unsure of whether someone is joking or being serious, a good phrase to use is "i can't quite tell whether you're being serious here". it's a casual line that i've used myself as an NT several times, so it won't be embarrassing or anything. it's perfectly ok to ask for clarification, and hopefully that'll help you figure out what's going on.
3. similarly, if you can't read someone's face expression, ask for example "i can't really read your expression, are you [joking/worried/ whatever you think they might be]?"

Aspies and NTs: learn each other's 'culture'!
NTs and aspies: sit down together and identify things that generally cause stress, if you haven't already made a mental list yourself. for example, i noticed my bf always seemed a bit overwhelmed with the question "how are you?", and sometimes gave answers that are a bit strange such as "anticipatory" or a list of what he did all day. i told him that's a strange answer and he didn't quite understand why, as he was anticipating an event later that day. he also said he generally feels overwhelmed by the question because he can only come up with good/bad (which are boring answers, in his own words), and if he tries to expand it beyond that it's "overwhelming as there are thousands of possibilities". So, we together made a list that he can use, into which his mood will fall 99% of the time. this list is specific to him, but may be a good starting point for others (the signs in brackets indicate strength of good or bad emotion): excited (+++) great (++) good (+) busy (neutral) not so great (-) exhausted (--) anxious (---).

aspies: how to approach NTs, one example
i'd say if you're worried that your "cold gaze" might put someone off, try other ways of showing interest.
for example, in an office regarding a coworker you are interested in romantically: if you notice that the NT frequently consumes a particular food/drink (a latte from the cafe, a chocolate doughnut, chewing gum, etc...), maybe bring them something like that one day (let's say, the chocolate doughnut). if you want it to appear casual, give it to them with a sentence like "i stopped at the bakery this morning and when i saw the chocolate doughnut thought i had to bring you one since you're such a big fan of them". NTs will regard such gestures highly, and you'll be on their radar as someone who can be perceptive and care - which i'm sure is the case!

i'd love to get feedback on this from NTs and aspies (the good, the bad, and the awful feedback). if anybody wants some more practical tips just reply and i'm happy to share more of my experience

also i remember someone asked NTs about why we're on this forum - my response to that is that i've noticed how much i can do to make my aspie bf's life easier by giving him a few hints and tips here and there (see above). i know not every aspie has someone close who will openly talk to them about things like what's inappropriate in social situations and why - my bf has told me that he just wasn't told many of these things ever before. i think it's wonderful that different people see the world in different ways, and i want to understand how aspies see it and help aspies understand how NTs see the world

Possibly. It's ironic though, as we both work in neuroscience and are very familiar with the notion that there is great variation in the human mind and that "different" is not necessarily a bad thing.



Thank you, I hope so! My son admires his father very much, and it would be nice if he could have a positive role model who embraces and is proud of the way he is.

I think your text was a lovely description of situations that can arise in aspie/NT relationships, and I recognized a lot of it, as I too have been in a relationship like this. Perhaps you and your partner could write an AS-to-NT dictionary (or vice versa)

Is my nonverbal communication common among NTs?

As a NT person I would say that the tone of voice one uses is very important. From an NT perspective, the tone of voice signals a persons mood, but also signals that persons feelings toward the person he/she is talking to. Using a dull voice, to an NT person, can easisly be percieved as expressing passive/agressive annoyance or indifference toward the other person. This in turn, may cause the other person to take offence or become angry, especially if they don't think they've done anything wrong. It is also common for moods to be "contagious" among NTs. For instance, if an NT is talking to someone who is in a bad mood, this bad mood can spread to the other person.

I would guess that your mother came up to your room to see how you were doing (perhaps to express sympathy because you weren't feeling well). When you greeted her with a dull voice she might have felt hurt (she was trying to be nice, but you responded in a way that signalled that you might be annoyed with her). When she then asked for your clothes, and you replied in a dull voice, she may have interpreted this as you expressing that you thought she was nagging you, which in turn made her angry (nobody likes to be seen as a nagging person).

The scenario you described has been a very common occurence in my family (I am NT and my ex-husband is probably an Aspie). He would often use a dull tone of voice if he was feeling off or tired or in a bad mood (for reasons that had nothing to do with me). I would often misinterpret his tone of voice as him expressing annoyance toward me, which I found hurtful and unfair, as I had not been the cause of his bad mood. This in turn would put me in a bad mood.

With time we have reached a sort of compromise (we still live together). I have come to understand that his dull voice is not intended to be hurtful toward me, and I try not to become to emotionally affected by it. He has started to tell me that "I am in a bad mood today, please don't take offence if I sound annoyed/indifferent", and if he needs to be alone he will tell me this.

Hello,

An NT/AS hotline is a good idea; yet, many people may prefer NT/AS discussions here on WrongPlanet.

There is a need to boost NeuroTypical (NT) perspectives on WrongPlanet; especially as it relates to Neurotypical friendships important to people with Aspergers.

Thank-you

I have a question for aspies:

What is it about social interactions that so many people on the spectrum find tiresome/energy draining? As a NT with an extroverted personality I have difficulties understanding this, as I gain energy from social interactions.

Ah I guess September already gave a useful perspective on this.

The thing with communication is that it's subject to interpretation. If there is misunderstanding, explanation can sometimes be helpful. It sounds like your mum is carrying some hurt feelings and imagining all sorts of things about your thoughts. Since you don't quite share a common language of tone or gesture, you have to be really clear and gentle in your communications with her, try not to take offense, and be as kind as possible.

Let her know that there are times when thinking and communicating verbally is difficult and have a stock phrase that includes goodwill to express that. Could be something like, "I love you mum, but I am having a really hard time thinking and talking just now and need to rest a bit, OK?"

This will make her feel more emotionally secure and she will then be more open to trying to understand what you are actually experiencing rather than what she imagines or fears you might be thinking.

In general, typical people require a lot of reassurance of this kind.

It takes sustained concentration to have an idea of what is going on and not to give offense inadvertently. So one is on guard, which is tiring and struggling to interpret a foreign language.

Another issue is that the sort of environments that many people like in social encounters like background music, a stimulating visual environment, etc. can present an inherently challenging situation to people with sensory issues.

For me it is mostly trying to figure out what the other person/people mean and how I seem to them and what is expected of me. Trying to understand all that is exhausting. But if you try to relax and just "be yourself" bad things happen often, so you really do have to keep working at it.