elkclan wrote:
Of course it makes her sad when everyone tells her to leave him.
It makes me sad that my marriage hasn't worked out. Intensely sad.
When people told me how bad my relationship was, I didn't want to see it either. When you love someone you don't want them to tell you that this person isn't good for you. Even if you suspect it's true. What people often want in these situations is some magic bit of advice on how to fix the relationship.
Jono, maybe NTs are bad communicating with Aspies. But maybe Aspies, in general, are not very good at being romantic partners. The statistics seem to suggest this. Every relationship site seems to suggest this. I think Aspies could be better partners than they are, but it takes conscious effort to do that. And it certainly isn't about responding to a legimitate concern with "You just need to communicate with me better." If NT partners have to practice conscious communication, AS partners need to practice conscious empathy. I've seen some AS partners on this site talk about their relationships that seem to work and this is what they seem to be doing. I've seen my own husband practice conscious empathy on a few occasions and he was able to provide emotional support to me (when my grandfather died for example, his behaviour was on balance really good).
I see just as much US v THEMISM here as I do on the AS Partners site. I see just as much wild generalisation about NT behaviour.
I would ask you though how many NTs you've been in romantic relationships with or how you know this? Even if it's true communication is a two-way street. And when you've asked again and again and again for basic compromises - you don't communicate as well you might otherwise. Yet still people, including people in abusive relationships will twist everything back on themselves - if only I was a little more this or a little more that then maybe he wouldn't do this... Yes, we should always look to see what our parts are in situations, but we (and mean we as in we humans) shouldn't take all of the blame in relationships.
And the problem with this 'communication' theory is that sometimes it just isn't possible to communicate as the websites advise all the time. I recently got taken to A&E with chest pains. I texted my husband this and that they were running tests. His response: "OK good luck." If I didn't communicate my needs:
1. Please express sympathy
2. Please sort out childcare for your child
3. Please ask what hospital I'm in and if you should come
4. Please find out if I need help or who is with me
5. Please find out if I need help getting home
It was because I couldn't breathe and was having chest pains. Fortunately, I have friends who did anticipate needs and took care of all of this for me. I would not have been able to get home on my own.
My experience isn't unique. Lots of NT partners in NT/AS relationships have similar stories around health crises.
Hi Elkclan, I really hope you read my posts on the other thread. I'll start by saying again that I'm really sorry to hear how hard it is for you, and for most of the regulars on the ASpartners site. A lot of that behaviour you and others have to endure is downright disgusting. I also do agree it's a no-brainer that there will be a lower proportion of successful AS/NT relationships to NT/NT ones. Especially when taking into account those with severe AS, and those who did not have an understanding family, or were diagnosed late in life and therefore traumatised through not understanding why they got such negative reactions from everyone. However to assume that aspies in general are bad partners and that it's right to go around warning people that their relationship with an aspie cannot possibly work, is much too extreme.
With regards to the statistics you refer to, which suggest that AS people are not good at being romantic partners, are there any tests which only include aspies who were diagnosed prior to the relationship? Or preferably only those who were diagnosed in childhood. As I have argued before, many partners, especially from older generations are getting their diagnosis as a result of their relationship already being in turmoil AND because they are still showing symptoms commonly associated with AS. This automatically excludes most of those whose relationships are not in turmoil, and especially any who might no longer be showing any of the major AS symptoms.
Relationship sites are also likely to show the same negative message for the same reason (if the relationship is not in turmoil people will never end up posting and probably won't even know their partner has AS). Also, those in happy relationships with a person diagnosed with AS are unlikely to have the compulsion to go and post about it, least of all on a support forum for people in difficult relationships. It sounds like gloating, and they will feel uncomfortable and like they don't fit in. Perhaps if they feel they can offer some advice on making the relationship work this might be motivation enough to post, but if their relationship is simply a good one which did not need any magic solutions, why would they bother? When it comes to therapists who work with AS/NT relationships, they will obviously not see any of the ones who don't need therapy - and many information websites are created by therapists. In spite of all this, I have seen quite a number of positive accounts of AS/NT relationships from the NT side in various places. Occasional accounts are even posted on the ASpartners site, but they are largely overlooked. That researcher Kim Bolling even specifically said that she had been put off posting about her own relationship there because she felt her issues paled in comparison those of others on the forum. That brings me to the next point.
There is also basic human nature to consider, as someone already explained quite well, earlier in this thread. The people on sites like the AS partners site are actively seeking connection and validation from others with similar experiences. They are drawn to like-minded forums, and they do the very natural thing of selectively looking for what they want to see. People on such a forum will usually only respond to what they agree with (after all they're there to find connection, not debate). If someone describes how their partner always disagrees with everything they say, then most people will only respond if they can relate to it because their partner is the same. If on the other hand their partner placidly accepts everything they say and expects them to make all the decisions, then they'll probably ignore the afore mentioned thread and post on one which discusses their own partner's issue instead. This can easily make it seem like there is total agreement on every issue, and that everyone else's aspie partner has the same issues as one's own.
Then there's the mind-blindness issue, and I'm not talking about aspie mind-blindness. I'm talking about the simple fact that on the internet,
everyone is mind-blind! Everything is in pure text form, and there is no non-verbal communication whatsoever. Of course we can figure certain things out by looking at people's choice of words, but most of the "feel" we get for a person and for any situations they describe, are projections resulting from our minds automatically filling in the blanks. This mean that on forums and websites more than anywhere else, we see what we expect to see and what we want to see! And people on sites like ASpartners do come there with quite a specific personal agenda.
All in all I'm not trying to claim that any of this proves that aspies are good partners. I'm simply pointing out how flawed the logic is, behind the assumption that the most of them are irredeemably bad partners. So it's very saddening to see this assumption being presented as though it were an absolute truth, and thinking about the harm it might be causing.
28 Nov 2014, 9:19 am
