First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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I hope someone can answer that better than me. I just can say that some woman take standoffishness as a challenge.



I guess they do it to fit in a certain group. Another reason could be fear of rejection. In my case, i hate lying, so if i am afraid of telling what i think, i would rather stay quiet, unless it is important to express my opinion (in which case i would tell the truth ).

Thank you! This is good to know I have a lot of questions myself, so it's nice to have a place where one is able to ask freely. Although I do agree with later posters that a separate sub-forum for AS/NT communication might be more optimal in this regard.

Most Aspies I know, both from the workplace, but also from the many nerdy communities I am part of, have simply stated at some point that they are Aspies, briefly explained why this may be relevant for us NT colleagues to know, and there hasn't been anything more to it than that. In both instances this has been a good thing, as it has made communication easier. I have also had relationships with two people who had AS (although not diagnosed at the time), and they told me very early on about who they were, and about the strengths and limitations of their personalities, which was a very good thing.



I have given this a lot of thought. The short answer is that it has to do with weighing the benefits of being absolutely frank against the possible adverse outcomes that may follow, and making the decision that, in the particular context at hand, it is simply more advantageous to not be frank.

The long answer is that this is a complex equation which is dependent on, for instance, context, the social cues given at the time, the perceived personal needs of oneself and the other person(s), as well as the possible outcomes of being absolutely frank. This is all weighed against the conviction that most of us have, that it is preferable to be honest. There are thousands of different reasons why a person may chose to not be completely honest. Below I state 5 of them:

1. To avoid hurting someone's feelings.

Example: If someone who had a new haircut and seemed really pleased with it were to ask me if I liked it, I would probably say yes, even if I thought it was ghastly. In this instance, being frank would only hurt the person in question, and I would deem it more important to avoid this than upholding the principal of absolute honesty.

2. To avoid making someone else feel bad/guilty.

Example: If I were really stressed/busy and my mother suddenly asked me to help her with the computer, I would probably do it, even if it meant extra stress on my part. If she were to ask me if it was "too much trouble" I would probably say "No, no trouble at all", even though I thought it was troublesome. I would interpret my mother's asking as a social cue that she was feeling worried about being a nuisance, and I would deem it as more important that she be put at ease than that I be fully honest in this scenario.

3. Pride/unwillingness to show weakness.

Example: If I were to hurt my back, reducing my abilities due to the pain, I would probably tell my close friends and family about it, so that they would be more understanding. But if I were in a competitive setting at work, pride would probably drive me to not make a fuss about it. If people noticed that I was in pain, I would probably say "Oh, it's not so bad", even if it was bad, so as to not be perceived as using my pain as an excuse to "slack off". Stupid, I know.

4. Fear of adverse consequences.

Example: I have various issues with my boss. Many of these cannot be resolved without great conflict. As I am dependent on my boss for future references etc, I am reluctant to bring up the issues, even though I personally would prefer that they were discussed. I still feel the need to "vent" these issues with other people though, so I discuss them with colleagues, who many times have had similar experiences. The fact that we can share these experiences with each other leads to a strengthening of our mutual social bonds, but it may also to the outsider seem as if we were simply badmouthing the boss behind her back (which we technically are). In this particular case, the benefits of not being honest with the boss (i.e., reducing the risk of being fired with bad references), while still maintaining the emotional support from colleagues, outweighs the moral dubiousness of not being completely honest, as well as badmouthing a person who is not there to defend herself.

5. To subtly signal a need for an act of kindness/fishing for compliments.

Example: If I had made a great effort of preparing an elaborate meal, I may feel that it would be nice/fair if my partner would take care of the dishes. I could of course ask him if he could do so, but then I would not get the added bonus of experiencing a considerate act. Thus, I might say "Wow, I'm so tired from all that cooking, I really don't feel like cleaning all those dishes now", thereby hinting that I would really appreciate if he volunteered to do them. By volunteering (instead of me having to ask for it) my partner would signal to me that he was a considerate person, who didn't need to be asked to help me, and I in turn, may thank him for his consideration, thereby strengthening our emotional bond.

Another example: When I was pregnant and feeling bloated, spotty and generally unattractive, I would sometimes say "Oh, I feel so fat and ugly today". The point of this statement was never to just convey that this was what I was feeling, it was primarily a signal to my partner that I needed some positive feedback. The expected response from him was thus "Nonsense, you are lovely and beautiful". I could, of course, have asked him to give me a compliment, but that would not have been the same. In some cases, having to ask for something (a compliment, for instance), diminishes the value of that thing.

Hope this made any sense!

I am NT, but I think I tend to think visually as well. I think that the average person thinks in a combination of hearing words in their head (mostly this) and seeing pictures in their heads. However, some NT are also more geared to visual thinking and those people tend to go into more artistic fields or other fields where visual/spatial reasoning is most important. One of my sons is dyslexic. People with dyslexia are also highly visual thinkers, and you will often find that architects and artists are dyslexic to some extent. My son told me that he pretty much sees a picture every time he has a thought or processes someone else's words. This is a reason it is hard for dyslexics to learn to read. They can often learn to read nouns, because those are very easy to attach a picture to in their mind. But, they have a really hard time learning to read "the" or "behind" until they are able to come up with a consistant picture association for those words. One of Temple Grandin's books really helped me to figure out how to help my son write better. Instead of trying to think words first now, he draws a diagram with pictures then puts descriptions of those pictures into words. According to Temple Grandin, many people on the autism spectrum are also highly visual thinkers, but it is not exclusive to autism and dyslexia.

You give them too much credit. In my experience 'en-tees' care naught for us, except to the extent that they can find ways to take advantage of us.

Perhaps I'm far too cynical, but I have very, very good reasons to be.

I think it is a wonderful idea!

Hi all,

This is my first post on the board, so please go easy. I'm a NT person who is in a long-term relationship with someone with Aspergers. While he's never been officially diagnosed, he satisfies every diagnostic criteria and scores perfectly on the self-exams. So, I think that's where we are.

Recently we've started to argue because I cannot explain my sometimes — in his words — "illogical behavior." In my mind's eye, this means that I don't always respond the same way to the exact same stimulus. If I cannot come up with a good rationale for why my response to something changed, we can argue about it for a long time. I'm wondering for the people with Aspergers on this board if they ever heard an explanation from an NT person about why people's behavior changes that made sense to them, or had any suggestions for how I could facilitate this conversation.

Thanks!

This is most likely becouse the situation isn't the same from the NTs perspective.
remember, as aspies, we see the stimulus we are responding to as a seperate entity, and only respond to that one, regardless of, for example, the health issues of the neibourghs cat.

To make sense of the world, it is logical to see every event as its own, completely unrelated to anything else happening (unless a good reason is presented to assume otherwise); but NTs are more likely to connect several effects together, or they are simply 'emotionally compromised' which will affect their decision making. I still think that this is illogical, but i have accepted it as simply a fact, one of many illogical facts that just are.

[quote="MONKEY"]Oooh this looks fun.

Same movies (like none Christians) they always watch i would think..

I appreciate your clear explanation, fitzi. Thank you

I think there are a few points.

1) Practice. To practice you must initiate a lot, develop a thick skin, and just see what works by trial and error. If you can formulate some "rules" for acting around women, like say X because last time X got a good response. It's easier if you focus on your appearance, too - try to find a fashiony friend to get you an outfit, and get a nice haircut, and wear cologne. Suddenly aloof or different becomes unattainable and mysterious.

2) Accept yourself. Confidence is key, and realize that you have qualities that women could find attractive: intelligence, curiosity, strong interests or personal passions, and also a more mysterious personality. Also, you're more genuine, honest, and straightforward than the average guy which matters, a LOT.

3) Find women like you. Find a girl who is logical, straightforward, atypical, with at least one shared interest. If you like baseball, take her to baseball games. If you both like political science, then study that. And you're going to have to realize that sometimes you're going to meet a lot of girls who don't like you and then a few who really do. Think about women in your same major or in your same field of work or who have the same hobbies.

4) Watch your eye contact. Don't stare.

5) Develop a formula that works for you. Initiate a conversation about a mutual interest, initiate a conversation with her friend and her brother, ask her to a concert but don't proclaim strong feelings on the first date otherwise you might scare her a little.

6) I think the rule of thumb is, by the third date, you need to tell someone about some of your dealbreaking secrets. Everyone has something they have to reveal; maybe they have a kid, maybe they were divorced, maybe they are underemployed; maybe they smoke; maybe they have an STD; maybe they have a DIU; maybe they had their heart broken just two months ago; maybe they have a mental issue. I have to tell everyone I date that I take medication for anxiety. In the long run, though, it's worth it: because I need to have a partner who supports me and can accept me for who I am. My true friends can deal with it. If a guy doesn't want to date me because of what I tell him about my anxiety medication on date 3, then he and I are better off not dating.

7) Encourage her to educate herself on autism or aspergers. Many people have common misconceptions about it that can easily be solved.

A lot of NT'S are here because they have loved ones who are on the Spectrum and they'd like answers and to know how to help their loved one.

But I do agree about and understand your bitterness!

Are there people on the autism spectrum (say with Aspergers syndrome or ppd-nos), who have no problem at all with facial expressions or with understanding non-verbal communication?

I am going to reword my question so that more people can answer it. I'm trying to figure out roughly how common it is for people with autsim to have trouble with reading facial expressions.

Can you read facial expressions as well as anyone else? Do you know anyone with high functioning autism who does not have trouble with it?

Question for NT's. Can you tell how you are being percieved by others? Can you tell if you are actually fitting in with a group and can you feel like you're fitting in?

I have a very hard time knowing how I appear to others and when I'm in groups I still feel seperate. It's like being in a group with your older sibling and their friends because your mom made them bring you along. It feels like everyone accepts you're there but would prefer if you weren't.

I have an emotional awareness but it's something I can sort of turn on/off at will. Or rather it sort of turns off on it's own.

Talk to a mild aspergers person and they probably recognize facial expression but they do it totally consciously. Like, I can tell you exactly what I noticed that led me to believe that person was feeling a certain emotion. But I'm not actually inside that person's head at all. It's just sort of like, I know this person is not making eye contact with me, that indicates disinterest, they must be bored, but I'm not actually feeling boredom, I just know to look for those things.

I also suck at my own facial expressions. Most of the looks I give people, I do that totally consciously as well. Like, widening my eyes to indicate surprise, I only do that because I know people expect me to do that. Kind of like the engine is turning but the wheels don't spin.