How people "argue" with you

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goatfish57
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19 Jan 2016, 8:20 am

zkydz wrote:

I wonder what would happen if there was an independent observer who would notice how we argue with other people.

What would we learn?

The first thing we would learn is that neither party is really listening. They are too busy figuring out what they will say next. Mostly, both parties are hearing what they want to hear or expect to hear and not what is said.

A clever person can get past this with good use of body language, facial expressions and appropriate responses.

People like Bill Clinton are experts at this.

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zkydz
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19 Jan 2016, 8:35 am

goatfish57 wrote:

zkydz wrote:

I wonder what would happen if there was an independent observer who would notice how we argue with other people.

What would we learn?

I recorded some stuff once for tutorial purposes. When I was going back and editing out the parts where I was giving instructions I got a bit of a shock. So, let me tell you what I learned:

1.) I was not near as calm and orderly as I thought.

2.) I was not as clear as I thought.

While I applaud the effort to be inclusive, but I really don't think many people realize how they come across. I can't say that it applies to every interaction with people. But, it was an eye opener.

As for me not listening because I'm trying to think of what to say would be wrong. I'm too busy trying to figure meaning before I sort out any reply.

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goatfish57
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19 Jan 2016, 12:37 pm

zkydz, I am the same. But, we are not most people.

Arguing and discussing are different beasts. A discussion is much nicer. I hate being talked at and get away quickly.

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zkydz
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19 Jan 2016, 1:01 pm

goatfish57 wrote:

zkydz, I am the same. But, we are not most people.

Arguing and discussing are different beasts. A discussion is much nicer. I hate being talked at and get away quickly.

Yeah, I get that about not being the normal people. And I certainly get the differences between discussion and argument.

If I think I am being perfectly reasonable and am in fact being argumentative or coming off that way it can be 'not good'. Sorry for that....I really can't find the words for that right now....best I could do.

But I too hate being 'talked at' instead of engagement or marginalization. And, mostly I try to avoid contact with people unless totally required.

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Edna3362
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19 Jan 2016, 10:59 pm

Ahh, of course..

Hell, even I'm not disagreeing or challenging their damned 'rule', some would mistook it from my worries and questions as insolence.

I refuse to correct their assumptions, because they don't want it. I believe that would be their downfall someday or somehow...

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slw1990
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20 Jan 2016, 9:06 pm

Spiderpig wrote:

slw1990 wrote:

I have this problem too and sometimes with a close family member. Sometimes when I tell them something they seem to think that what I'm saying has a different meaning to it. Then if I try to explain it again they still don't understand and say that I'm arguing with them when I would just be trying to get them to understand what I was saying. I don't even think I sound angry when I would be talking to them about it. It's frustrating because it seems like these people are so focused on playing games and being powerful that they never really listen to what your actually saying and instead think that there is a hidden meaning behind what you are saying like you are somehow trying to challenge them or something. Then it would seem like they would disagree with me, just to do it because when I would ask them about it they wouldn't seem to have much to back it up and change the subject or say something different than what they said before so it would seem like they would just be trying to confuse me. It also seems like some people don't really take what I say very seriously and just start assuming things that aren't always true. I usually try not to talk to these people as much because it's frustrating and not worth the stress.

If they’re used to putting words in your mouth and not caring what you actually mean, trying to force them to listen to you for real is, in fact, a challenge, so they’ll respond in kind.

In a similar vein, sometimes people will twist your words so they can disagree by defending the same thing you were actually saying. They just need to create the illusion that they’re setting you straight, which will probably work if there’s an audience more prone to sympathizing with them than with you—the last thing the audience will care about is what you actually said, so the illusion will be, for all practical purposes, as good as reality.

There usually isn't an audience. Yes, it seems like some people twist things around and agree with me when they didn't before. I usually become distant from them when they do that. Sometimes I try to avoid them completely. It's not worth the stress.

goatfish57
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21 Jan 2016, 8:22 am

slw1990 wrote:

Spiderpig wrote:

In a similar vein, sometimes people will twist your words so they can disagree by defending the same thing you were actually saying.

Yes, it seems like some people twist things around and agree with me when they didn't before.

I try to do that, without all the twisting. It show that I am listening and trying to incorporate their position into my thoughts. Think of it as a bridge to link differing opinions. Although, this is not true with many people who just want to disagree.

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hiddenautistic
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21 Jan 2016, 1:14 pm

I have been through this kind of "argument" so many times, and like you, I had no idea that the other people considered it an argument. I thought we were having a very simple discussion, an exchange of insights, an exchange of thoughts, or merely a small clarification. I used to get into these often because I did not recognize that there is an emotional element involved in the other people's minds, and I think my words (being unemotional as they are) created some kind of offense that is like you said, like I killed their favorite pet. It has been quite perplexing over the years, and it has definitely added to my habit of staying silent and just trying to avoid talking to anyone ever. This is not a good option for the long term. It's so hard to know if there is any way to gain insight and be able to read the clues before it becomes the "argument." Only one thing have I decided, that if my first explanation is rejected that I will not try again, nor will I offer any more words on the subject. I bow out as quickly as possible. I really appreciate the way you described this perplexing experience.

kraftiekortie
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21 Jan 2016, 3:13 pm

People with Asperger's/autism frequently argue like "normal" people.

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21 Jan 2016, 5:14 pm

I think arguing means different things to everyone. For my mother it does not mean a disagreement. You can disagree with someone without arguing. To argue with her, you would have to do it with an attitude that is negative. To her that is an argument.

To me an argument is if I feel tension and if I feel we are going to just keep on disagreeing and not ever agree because we both have two different perspectives about something but the problem is you have to know when to quit (drop the topic).

If I think a topic will turn into a fight, I call it an argument. If someone has a strong opinion about something, I will say "I don't want to talk about this" because I know it will get heated and bring out strong emotions and possibly insults from them because that is what feelings do.

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