"I learned to do [x] because I had to/had no choice" ...

Post Reply New Topic

Fair enough. There's definitely a line between the two and I don't know quite where to draw it.

I feel like the internet and books count as help in a way, since someone wrote that stuff and we're getting knowledge from them. One could also argue, though, that these things weren't written for you specifically, and most likely were not intended to help autistic individuals. I know most of the articles I've read seem to be aimed at people who are merely socially inexperienced.

The main thing I was thinking of was trial and error. I had to do a lot of this while learning to socialize, which often meant creeping people out on accident and then figuring out what my mistake was later. It was significantly more difficult than studying body language and reading articles on the internet.

Here's what I think of what you say.....

You are so much further along than I am. At your age, I had no clue what was going on. Just knew that things never worked and was pretty much ostracized in one way or another. It just got more polite as people got older.

And, there are some things that you do have to learn from outside. You have no idea what people think of you if they are not honest and your perception filter is wonkified like mine is.

So, good for you that you are aware and also working on it.

Thanks. I still get ostracized sometimes myself, so I know it's painful. Especially if your "friends" had you convinced they like you.

Hopefully you have someone in real life you can talk to. And if not, maybe people on here.

I wouldn't have thought of that but I think I can imagine what you mean. Although I can also imagine somebody just taking a long time to learn something on their own.



I hope you are right that it's most people. I know that sometimes people must just say this as a personal truth, with no implications about other people, but I usually can't tell when this is vs. isn't the case.

I think I'm extra sensitive to the possible negative implications because of that kind of statement being part of what someone said to me a lot to berate me for my failure to do things they could do.



That's a good way of putting it.

I do understand that bit, I just don't like it when that bit gets combined with "I did it, therefore so could you if you only tried hard enough/wanted to/needed to."



I guess they are trying to make you feel guilty?

It reminds me of a teacher I had in high school, talking about critical thinking and telling a story about her parents saying "eat your [whatever food she didn't like], there are children starving [someplace]" and my teacher asking her parents how the starving children were supposed to benefit from her eating the food she didn't like.



Could be.

It could also be because sometimes when you truly have to do something the consequences of failure are so severe that it makes it difficult or impossible to report (e.g. extreme poverty and social exclusion making is so that your story of failure despite continuous herculean effort wouldn't get very far or necessarily be believed even if you told it, or death from serious injury or illness).



I wish I was better at telling the difference in use.

I wonder if people with invisible physical disabilities encounter the same sort of denial/ignorance as those with invisible mental/neurological disabilities?



It still fits the conversation, I think.....although I am not 100% sure what Spiderpig's point was, it still seems to me to fit.

What's attainable for one person is not necessarily attainable for another.



Yes, but diving helmets are analogous to accomodations for people with disabilities -- they only make a difference for those who have access to them. Not everyone has the ability to make a diving helmet, or to access one made by someone else.

When I read a statement about learning to do something because no choice, I find positive rather than negative in it, because I think that I may be able to do something that seem hard or impossible to do, like the person who made the statement did. How people interpret things can be quite different, depending on their own experience, which is why I always think people should say what they think instead of trying to be sensitive to some people's feelings, since there could be as many positive effects on as many people as negative. If you interpret something always negatively in a self-denigrating way, then it is an internal issue that can be identified and addressed, if you don't like thinking that way.

I find inspiration/hope from statements that describe the nature of a difficulty I can relate to and then the path to success, or that share how long it took to achieve success (KraftieKortie talking somewhere on here about learning to drive later in life is an example -- although I had planned to keep trying to learn before I read it). That a person's motivation was being stuck/having no choice doesn't play a part in inspiring me or giving me hope for myself, it just tells me something about the other person.

I don't always interpret those kinds of statements in a negative way (my thoughts often sort of flicker with possibilities rather than taking any specific interpretation) but I do need to think more about how they are not necessarily intended that way.

I'm not sure if this is what you mean about self-denigrating, but these sorts of statements don't make me feel bad about myself even when they are meant to imply something negative about those who can't do [x] -- whether or not I can do [x], myself.

I would say these types of statements are almost always not intending to imply anything negative about others, not merely that they are not necessarily intended that way.

I have noticed on wp sometimes negative reactions to people saying something about their own success, which is sometimes interpreted by others as implying something bad about them, but I didn't think anything about the original statement beyond what the person said.

Once, there was a ridiculous thread that people should not post admiration of high achievers like Stephen Hawking, because some people may not be able to achieve so much.

SeRiOuSlY? (Couldn't think of a better way to describe the level of incredulity I feel at this moment...Sorry for the "Prince Typography example") I've seen this type of sentiment before. I've never understood how anybody's success can demean another?

Basically, it were all easy, everybody would be kicking back, wealthy, healthy and superstar athletes and singers and beautiful and wonderful and oh...f**k it.
Other people's level of success has been my inspiration to keep going on and on and on. It's burned me out because I did not know what I was dealing with, but........I ain't giving up. It's one of the reason's that when I hear someone say something about faking it or whatever for sympathy and free money...wellllllll, glad I'm not there when they say it.

But a whole thread because someone would be offended someone else has great success? Where does that insanity end?

Seriously?

I'm not sure if it's because they are offended by someone else's success, or perhaps they are more against the idea of praising that person for having success or praising people for using their talents, when there are some people who have great difficulty using their own talents, but I don't think that praising one person for using talents is implying anything negative about someone else who isn't able to do so.

^^^Well, that sounds more like a pissing contest than appreciation.

Here's the way I see it. The person who has the most trouble, but still perseveres is far more accomplished than the person who can access their gifts easily.
My personal twist on Mark 12:44. And, no, it is not a religious statement. But I draw whatever wisdom I can from anywhere.

And, if anybody thinks someone like Stephen Hawking has it 'easy' really needs a reality check.