A Mask For The World

Post Reply New Topic

I'm working on it, I've had similar problems to Quinn, and your attitude isn't helping.

What the hell does my attitude have to do with anything? Quite frankly, you've been quite militant about what other people think and mean and should do.

To lay blame on me for not agreeing with you is not a mature stance. It is also showing a lack of respect for other people to make those choices.

You've attempted to speak for me, the OP and just about everybody else. Maybe you should examine your own attitudes and motivations.

I am not having this conversation, I was just saying this conversation got derailed because I thought people were misinterpreting what it was saying and you took it personally.

When you speak for other people, yeah, it is personal. Just like you blaming me for something.

You've attempted to speak for me. Yet you also seek to blame me.

So, don't have the conversation. Go tell people anything you want. But, don't tell others what they should or should not do. And, since you are not the author of the article nor the OP, what give you the right to specifically interpret this and then tell everybody it is what it is without anybody else being able to have an opinion.

Basically, it is a difference of opinion. I don't give a rat's ass what you do or do not do. But, do not speak for me.

I NEVER SPOKE FOR YOU. I don't get where you are getting that impression. And just as you're allowed to have you're own opinion, I'm allowed to have my own opinion and my opinion about your opinion. Get over yourself.

Well, Let us see:

First off, the mask is not about 'hiding autism'. It's called blending in. EVERYBODY has to do it. You are speaking for the author here.

Here you are telling me and other people what we need to reveal for an 'influential connection'. Excuse me? Why do I need to tell anybody anything to satisfy your definition? Or anybody else for that matter?

From the OP: Where it is specifically stated it is an identity issue and it defining how they interact.

Here, you are telling me about being stigmatized for being autistic. You are telling me what my life is like. And, no matter how much I reject that as a definition of my life or experience, you ignore that. And, it is you who have been arguing with me simply because I do not let it define me nor do I want anybody telling me what makes a 'connection' or how it will make things 'better' if everybody knows.

Here you are actually telling me about my identity. No matter how I refuted it as not my identity. And, it is not as you see it.Here you try to refute anything I have said because I'm an older guy and 'not what the article was aimed at'. The conversation was not derailed. As a matter of fact, if you go through any of the posts it's all the older people who disagree. Not just me. I'm just the only idiot who has not ignored you.

And, yeah, I think that it is even more important that all you guys do actually listen to an older person who was not conditioned all their life that they are autistic and should not expect anything but the NT world to bend over for us.

As for it 'adding' to the conversations, you are the one trying to limit it to your viewpoint only. I have always opened it up to you and everybody else making their own decisions. Yet, that ticked you off too.

It actually is the issue being discussed. You are telling us all to do as you want or the point of the article is moot. Masking is just simply not avoiding saying any damned thing you want. It is important to us as well as NTs. It's bad for us because we don't always understand the mechanisms.

Here you are actually advocating for people not 'have to act like decent people in public.' Uhhhh...so you advocate just being able to be a complete ass because you're autistic? That has nothing to do with being autistic.

You have spoken for the autistic masses and anybody who disagrees with you is the problem. And, I find most of what you advocate for is not helpful at all.

Look I read the article. Sorry, but I don't agree with it or you.

I don't have to get over myself. I don't even have to get over you. I just think you are applying your vision to everybody and if anybody disagrees, or even agrees in a different way, you go on a tear.

Again, I will say it: YOU can tell people anything they want. But, it is an individual choice.

No it is not, at least not as the author is using it. The fact is my reading comprehension is frankly better than yours, so you're going to have to stick with my explanation. You can tell from context that is NOT what the author is referring to, as he used analogy to compare it to to what gays and blacks have to go through. Yes, blending is part of the mask, but here that is not the fundamental issue. You are projecting your own interpretation into it as unlike the author, you were diagnosed late in life, so that was never an issue for you.


YOU don't need to tell anyone. Here the problem is that you are taking what I am saying personally. It's just that SOMEONE needs to tell others.


The problem here is you fundamentally do not understand what it means to be stigmatized, it has absolutely nothing to do with with anything you do. Ignoring stigmatization does not change the fact people stigmatize you (or anyone else if just no one ever realized you are autistic) for being autistic.

Here you are actually telling me about my identity. No matter how I refuted it as not my identity. And, it is not as you see it.Here you try to refute anything I have said because I'm an older guy and 'not what the article was aimed at'. The conversation was not derailed. As a matter of fact, if you go through any of the posts it's all the older people who disagree. Not just me. I'm just the only idiot who has not ignored you.

And, yeah, I think that it is even more important that all you guys do actually listen to an older person who was not conditioned all their life that they are autistic and should not expect anything but the NT world to bend over for us.

As for it 'adding' to the conversations, you are the one trying to limit it to your viewpoint only. I have always opened it up to you and everybody else making their own decisions. Yet, that ticked you off too.
[/quote]
If on some level autism wasn't part of your identity, you wouldn't be using this website. Just let that sink in for a second. Sure, it may not be a part of your identity you consider important, but whether you like it or not, it is part of your identity on some level. The fact is people AREN'T entirely in control of their identity.

Also, I'm not bringing up that you are an older guy to "refute" what you are saying, I'm using it as an example that just because you don't relate with the author, it doesn't change the meaning of what he said.

" As a matter of fact, if you go through any of the posts it's all the older people who disagree." Yeah, that's why I brought that up in the first place. Really it's just that you are the only one who took it personally instead of either just ignoring it, or at least TRYING to understand what is going on instead of being all like "this doesn't apply to me, ergo, it's wrong."


No it is not. No I am not, now you putting words in MY mouth, you bloody hypocrite. I'm was just saying that is not what the article is saying, and by taking that particular angle you are invalidating what it says. And this "Masking is just simply not avoiding saying any damned thing you want" is NOT what masking is at all, and it's really rather offensive that you frame it that way as it invalidates all our struggles with it. So, if you want to continue being a jerk, keep doing what you are doing, you are free to do so. But if you want to try maybe not being a jerk, maybe you can listen to what other people are saying.


No, that is not what I said at all, I actually implied the exact opposite. Here: " The point is not that we shouldn't have to act like decent people in public" the way the sentence is structured the double negative implied we SHOULD act like decent people in public. That's part of why I'm saying I have much better reading comprehension than you do.


No I did not!

But other people do, which is why you fighting against it is a problem.


Then disagree with it! Disagree with me! But first you need to understand what it is saying, and what I am saying, or else your disagreement is ignorant.


And again, that is not what I am doing.

Hi zkydz, are you willing to speak more on this last part of your statement, which I bolded?

Oh My GOSH.
I stepped away from this site for a bit for graduation and I come back to discover 89 comments and a fight, I'm so proud!
there was some glorious intellectual discourse going on back there, then you all started getting mad at each other!
I told myself I wouldn't respond to comments anymore because that's just not a healthy move as a writer in the internet age, but I like you guys, and I want to see this discussion go places. So I'm going to clear up a few discrepancies y'all were fighting about, and propose a question.
first of all, I'd like to establish that I'm a pluralist. For the uninitiated in the art world, that means I prefer to operate on the philosophy that the audience's interpretations of a work are just as relevant as the creator's, though this tends to fall apart when nobody can agree on what's going on.
So, I'd like to make it clear, Ganondox read my article the way it was intended to. That doesn't mean the rest of you are wrong, but he got the message. My writings have some authority since they are in a published article, but by no means are they the law. Neurodiversity is young and should be debated until it does properly represent all of you, or at least those of you that want to be represented.
and now for the barrage of my personal philosophy, to clarify some of the arguments:
I dont think everyone needs to be on board with autistic identity politics, I do think it can help others understand us, and so I'm all about using it and manipulating it to those ends. Neurodiversity is a fairly radical group, and it has some serious issues that need to be worked through. There's no canonical manifesto yet, so we have time to make it into the right beast.
zkydz, you are right that the neurodiversity movement is currently very militant, forcing it's beliefs down other's throats is one of its many problems. Civil rights politics needs to be about creating a dialogue. That means back and forth. I didn't see ganondox forcing you to believe anything, but previous experiences and stories I've heard about neurodiversity activists makes your response understandable. Instead of bickering and escalating, maybe try responding by noting the parts of their ideas and proposals you don't agree with, and how you think they should be addressed instead. If you don't have a better idea, keep your mouth shut. That's always been my philosophy.
kraftiekortie, you are right that masking (whoever started verbing this word, I love you) is a common human act, and that is what makes it such a potent image. No, I don't think everyone should stop masking, it's a coping mechanism, sometimes it works. and, like i said in my article, autistic people should be held accountable for public unhealthy and harmful social behavior, in a POSITIVE, PRODUCTIVE, way. That's not masking, that's adapting. It's the other stuff, the stigma around harmless traits like stimming, obsessing, wearing fuzzy pink earmuffs in the summer, behavior which might make people uncomfortable, but only out of their impatience and ignorance. That's what people shouldn't be masking. I've figured out how to hide all my stims, and they probably aren't coming back, and that makes stressful situations more stressful, because I can't be myself. To get the full impact of this point, everybody should read Julia Bascom's On Quiet Hands. It's a short article, just give it a google.
And to those who don't identify with their autism diagnosis, there is a difference between the parts of your identity which you actually identify with, and the parts you don't. for example, I was raised lutheran, which is part of my verticle (inherited) identity, but I don't identify as christian. Still, christian beliefs influence my moral compass and many other aspects of my life, and this perception of the world is out of my control. Autism is part of my horizontal (obtained, not something my family taught me, or passed down to me) identity. As with any horizontal identity, to understand the culture and affects of autism, and how they color my life, I've had to seek out communities and like minded people, and see how it affects them. Even when I went under the mask, and stopped sharing my autism with the world, I still related to people on the spectrum. Though I didn't Identify as autistic, it was part of my identity. You don't have to identify as autistic if you don't want to. And you don't have to come out and become an angry activist either, I just want you to understand I'm not trying to force you to believe in something or be something. I do believe in it a lot, and I want you to too, but that's different.

to summarize: you are all right about some things, but ganondox was right about most things. Instead of fighting, work together to create productive dialog to further eachother's and outsider's perspective of us in a positive and healthy way. I've done my best to exemplify my version of post-internet argumentative writing above and throughout my articles. Though there can always be more citations.
and now for my question, which will hopefully put things back on course:

Because it is so controversial within the autism community, what can neurodiversity do to better represent you and your hopes for autistic acceptance?

(double post)

You have given a detailed information about the given topic.

I love this! Thanks for writing it. I agree "Part of autism acceptance should be making it more okay to politely correct people for social faux pas, because that’s how people learn" unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the way it works. Although I have never been diagnosed and am now in my 50s, I have determined that I am on the spectrum. In my last full time job, someone told me about something I had been doing that was upsetting everyone in the office. She kept apologizing for telling me and "being rude" but I told her I was grateful and wrote her a letter and copied the office manager, thanking her. I said that I did not consider what she did rude and that I consider it rude not to tell a person about these but rather to talk about it (behind their backs). Unfortunately, it became the office joke. It's sad that people have been taught that doing something as kind as pointing out a societal faux pau, is actually rude.

I'm new to this site and trying to come to terms with whether or not I have Aspergers, but I have to say this really resonated with me.

Thank you.
<3

I'm back here after a while.
Some new and possible repeated thoughts( I'm to lazy to read my older post)

A. Chemicals like booze, street drugs and other such can be tricky mask to wear.
In the Jeckle Hyde story sometimes the change would take place when no solution was taken

Sometimes meltdowns are a quick mask when
A. I'm wrong
B. I'm confused
C. I'm interrupted

Puppets used to be my ultimate mask

Puppets and other props lead people more to me than another mask

Growing up ivwoyld look in my closet and ask who shall I be today.

New show on TV that is not new. To tell the truth
It ends with -will the real _____ please stand up.

I like that ending.

Some of this post doesn't even make sense to me.

This is brilliant and exactly how I feel, especially when the conversations get personal. I think I would love your ventriloquism act.

Thank you Data
My programs at first were copies of others.
It's risky but rewarding to share me.
Even more risky when I'm off stage in "quote" real life.

A cross happens when I present at mental health conferences.
My favorite was Ordinary people helping ordinary people with extraordinary issues.
My favorite comment was "your light presentation was more Pithy than the keynote address.