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iliketrees
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31 Dec 2016, 10:16 am

androbot01 wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
18

Your icon age gender is female; do you think your gender was a factor in your late diagnosis? I think women present autism differently and are able to mask more easily, which was encouraged in my case.

All along the process the experts said it was very obvious, and I think people in general are able to tell something's up with me. I'm putting it on me being so quiet that my social communication impairments were hidden by me just never talking, doing what the teachers said, not disrupting class, and keeping up academically - both in classwork and doing homework. If just one of those wasn't the case it may have been found when I started school - if I was like a lot of autistic people who just talk and talk, if I was defiant or disruptive, if I had any learning disorders, probably other stuff I'm not considering. If being female makes such a case more likely then I'd say it was a factor, but I'm not sure that it does.



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31 Dec 2016, 10:22 am

With the provision that I am not diagnosed, I'd like to point out that it's also possible to hide in plain sight, as long as you are doing well enough academically. There is a stereotype that intelligent children are supposed to be socially clueless, so people chalk it down to that.

I was always rubbish at lying, but I found out fairly soon that most people are easily distracted. I had a powerful motive for drawing attention away from any autistic traits; nobody likes to be made fun of, particularly for things they have no control over.

In busy environments I turn into a terrible busybody; it's either that or stimming and lack of eye contact, which does me no good. Afterwards I hate myself, but if you're going to get lots of attention anyway, it feels better to chose how it happens.

Also, if your parents grew up in households where people were unusual, they have no idea what is normal anyway.


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31 Dec 2016, 10:38 am

EzraS wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
EzraS wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
BirdinFlight wrote:
I'm disgusted with this place and with you. I really don't wish you well as you demonstrate despicable behavior toward someone who has been through a lot more than YOU could ever endure without your circle of support.

None of us knows what we are capable of until the time comes. I empathize with your sentiment, but encourage you to be patient and not to define your experience by others' view of it. Having said that I cannot help but be jealous not only of the the support received by younger generations of autistic people, but also because they know that they are autistic in childhood.


I didn't get diagnosed as a child, so not all of us.


Amazing autistic kids of the later 90's and 00's going undiagnosed. How can a kid with autism in that time period make it all the way through high school undiagnosed? Doesn't make sense. Well I guess it does, but in a lousy way. Probably with parents and teachers just not wanting to deal with it being near or at the top of the list.

I was fine academically and didn't have any behaviour problems so me never talking was just put down to shyness. Everyone noticed how quiet I was and nobody is surprised that I'm autistic, but as I never drew their attention it never crossed their mind to think anymore about it at the time - I'm sure if I ever got assessed they'd have found I was, but I never gave them any reason to assess me. My parents did notice my symptoms but assumed I was borderline autism but not quite on the spectrum so never took it further.


Oh okay. I didn't mean what I said was about your parents, I was just speaking in general. There's some kids in my school for autism who are so quiet and draw so little attention to themselves in any way, they're almost invisible.

And I suppose that's what the original post comes down to - it's possible that nobody can tell you're autistic because without thinking about it people won't notice something is odd, and if they're not given a reason to think more about it they usually won't - so you're essentially invisible. Or maybe they have noticed something is odd, but matching that to autism (accurately) is something only professionals can do. They'd never have independently thought of it, but point it out and they will wonder how they missed it.



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31 Dec 2016, 10:41 am

EzraS wrote:

Amazing autistic kids of the 90's and 00's going undiagnosed. How can a kid with autism in that time period make it all the way through high school undiagnosed? Doesn't make sense. Well I guess it does, but in a lousy way. Probably with parents and teachers just not wanting to deal with it being near or at the top of the list.


Personally, all of my school reports said pretty much the same things:

"Extremely badly organised".

I used to forget books, pens, everything I needed for lessons. It drove teachers crazy.

"Extremely quiet. Doesn't connect with other students."

I had no friends at school. I was badly bullied and spent my entire school life trying not to get myself noticed, hiding in empty corridors whenever we weren't in class. Nobody spoke to me, except to be cruel. Clearly teachers noticed, but it wasn't anything they would have attributed to more than my personality.

"Doesn't speak in class."

I wasn't able to speak up in class. Public speaking was my absolute worst nightmare. I was essentially mute at school. Teachers responded by forcing me to speak, or complaining about my lack of speaking. I think the assumption was just that I was too quiet and would get better if I was continually forced.

"Doesn't make an effort".

I now understand a lot more what my teachers were looking for, but back then I didn't. My food technology classes, I distinctly remember these comments. We had a project where we had to design and prepare a suitable meal for use on an airplane. It had to be one that could be cooked, then reheated in the air and still be good to eat. We were told to "create this meal, and then work to improve it each week until we had it right". Mine tasted delicious first time, so I kept making it each week because it didn't need improvement. Obviously, the teacher wasn't happy with my lack of 'improvement', but as I saw it I'd met the brief. This infuriated her no end, but I didn't realise at the time.

I also had my special interest which took over my attention. I could never remember to do my homework, or 'find time' around my special interest, but obviously to teachers that would have just looked lazy. Nobody cared much that I was 10-11 years old, had first clicked onto the internet mere months earlier and spent each evening in the school computer room designing and coding websites having taught myself that skill. That was irrelevant. What they wanted was homework delivered at the start of the class, and it wasn't.

"Lots of potential, but underachieving".

Story of my life. I was a child genius. I got a scholarship to a private school based on the fact that I could memorise absolutely everything which made me the right kind of academic to breeze through school when learning was simply a case of memorising. Once I was required to start backing up my learning and going beyond the lessons, nobody took the time to actually point this out to me. Apparently, somewhere along the line it should have been obvious. To me, it wasn't. I looked like I did the bare minimum (and I did know how to memorise just enough to get the grades I needed for each 'next step), but the reality is that I didn't even realise I was supposed to be doing more. I still did alright with grades, because my incredible memory balanced out with the actual hard work and extra effort that other students were putting in.

In fact, my academic ability was a huge downfall. Teachers 'knew' that I was capable because they'd seen my grades and because, when something was clarified, I performed brilliantly. So, the rest of the time when I wasn't performing brilliantly, it was seen that I was lazy and disinterested.

"No effort in sports"

It took me ages to get changed for P.E. classes. I was consistently very late for class. I didn't understand why, because I was trying to dress as quickly as I could. Then, I was absolutely useless at every type of sport once class started - no good at any team or individual activities. Oh, and I often forgot my P.E. kit as well!

Again, the result is an angry teacher that thinks the child is doing all that she can to avoid being in class. Forgetting her kit, or changing slowly to miss the first 10-15 minutes of a class. Then, being useless in the lesson itself.

Summary:

I think unless you know what you're looking for, you'll find dozens of other reasons to justify someone else's behaviour. An actual disability is nobody's first thought. And I was the useless student during my teenage years, but I wasn't an attention grabber. I kept myself to myself, I didn't disrupt classes and I was still doing well enough that they didn't have to deal with me as an academic failure either. It was easy to just look at me as the lazy underachiever with so much potential, then leave me to my own devices.



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31 Dec 2016, 1:45 pm

EzraS wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
BirdinFlight wrote:
I'm disgusted with this place and with you. I really don't wish you well as you demonstrate despicable behavior toward someone who has been through a lot more than YOU could ever endure without your circle of support.

None of us knows what we are capable of until the time comes. I empathize with your sentiment, but encourage you to be patient and not to define your experience by others' view of it. Having said that I cannot help but be jealous not only of the the support received by younger generations of autistic people, but also because they know that they are autistic in childhood.


I didn't get diagnosed as a child, so not all of us.


Amazing autistic kids of the 90's and 00's going undiagnosed. How can a kid with autism in that time period make it all the way through high school undiagnosed? Doesn't make sense. Well I guess it does, but in a lousy way. Probably with parents and teachers just not wanting to deal with it being near or at the top of the list.




Like I say, they had other diagnoses. One of my online friends I just told you about in this thread was diagnosed with ADHD and a emotional disorder. But he went through hell in school.

There are so many overlaps the higher functioning ones were diagnosed with a learning disability or emotional disorder or behavior or ADD or dyspraxia or sensory integration dysfunction, developmental delay, language delay, OCD, anxiety, just so many labels so that is why I see autism as a bunch of problems together so they make it all autism but you just need to have enough components to have it.


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31 Dec 2016, 1:52 pm

I am the opposite because I didn't do fine academically and I was easily distracted but no one thought autism. Well the teachers did when I was real little and then I was older they thought learning disability. I also had social issues in school and behavior so my school thought I had a behavior and my mom said I did not have behavior. I did get easily upset in school and then AS was brought up finally in 5th grade. I felt pretty disgusted when I was 15 when I found my IEP stuff from elementary school and found my medical records from school so I then knew they knew I was different but yet still treated me the way they did. But because I look normal and look like everyone else, they didn't care.


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31 Dec 2016, 3:46 pm

I don't have intellectual delays, nor had any sort of clumsiness or something that wouldn't make my body obey my mind. Communication issues, probably. My social issues? I focus at the less superficial parts. I could perceive a BIT from NTs, and find few hints how to bridge through their assumptions.
How I got diagnosed? I never tried masking -- instead, I became more angry, hateful, frustrated and confused. It was never the first thing I had in mind. The only time I has, when I became anxious and depressed. Which never lasted long, since I didn't trained myself to script or become vigilant of body language or finding out what is 'appropriate'. Heck, understanding 'appropriateness' is a really new thing for me, despite my age (21) and experience (less than 6 years since isolation. Less than 4 years since my own... 'Human study')
In the real world, no one suspects most of my oddities thanks to the natives' colonial mentality and highly discriminatory assumption that they'd just dismissed me for someone from another ethnic than eccentric and naive, let alone an aspie or autistic. This has been the case, before AND after diagnosis.
So I barely have little or no need of 'masking' thanks to the inherent NT assumptions of seeing humans their socially relevant states. (Which, ironically, that's also why NTs sees autistics 'defective', 'disabled', 'odd', 'weird', 'suspicious', etc...) The instinct that some aspies are complaining or getting envious about and the very reason for masking.
This... Instinct is the reason why eye contact matters so much in some context, and also why it's not. This instinct is also why prejudice exists. Why homosexuality WAS a taboo? Why women were second class citizens? Why 'white privileges' and 'black discrimination' exists? Why there were nonsensical things that is considered collectively moral and immoral?
Autistics do not have this instinct of knowing 'context' like NTs and possibly several other types of NDs. And, sometimes, NTs don't actually want this instinct by trying to open their mind or mature.
MOST children do not have this instinct, and most matured people can bypass the instinct -- mostly, autistics are to be dismissed at the former.

There are so many reasons why autistics, especially aspies would choose to mask -- either because they wanna be like NTs to have things they want like achievements, relationships, even validation.
Or because humans are cruel that they prefer to be left alone, or be appear less vulnerable or a target.
Regardless of the 'disability', internal struggle or whatnot, which matters is that as long as it is 'invisible'.
For being a human, it's both -- so no one would perceive them as different. And different... Isn't a 'good' thing. NTs, or possibly any of those from any neurology would take masking -- it's also about shame and taboo, it's all about negotiations.

But there are very few, like me, who had figured out how to take advantage of the NT instinct by understanding it's local context. (very slowly, but surely by seeing it myself. No, I didn't studied it by reading about it) I can't help anyone in this forum on what I might've found out, because contexts between countries are different. Therefore, some norm 'here' could be taboo or wrong 'there'
Or at least, have my natural body language and expression dismissed too quickly or had found ways to be natural and be appropriate at the same time, which is rather complex even for the high functioning given most people in this forum had little or no opportunities in their respective circumstances.


TLDR:
I consider masking as a type of acting skill, less of a social skill. More like coping, more or less a maladaptive kind as it damages the psyche.
This is a human thing, when one's individual norm is considered as 'unnatural,' than being dismissed as norm, uniquely appropriate, or foreign.

Some aspies, hopes, that being an aspie would someday be 'uniquely appropriate'. I, for one, could care less -- I'm just being dismissed as foreign, most at the time. :lol:



I typed long, but does any of this made any sense? And it's 4:35AM here. :lol: And I feel a bit funny by eating too many chocolate cake slices and drinking liters of softdrinks because because NEW YEAR.


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31 Dec 2016, 5:34 pm

EzraS wrote:
Amazing autistic kids of the 90's and 00's going undiagnosed. How can a kid with autism in that time period make it all the way through high school undiagnosed? Doesn't make sense. Well I guess it does, but in a lousy way. Probably with parents and teachers just not wanting to deal with it being near or at the top of the list.


I was born in '00, but in a place where pretty much only the more severe cases of autism were diagnosed. Otherwise, you just had to deal with it.

When I covered my ears because the music or somebody's voice was too loud, my parents yelled at me to stop being rude. They also yelled at me to stop being rude when I did something socially unacceptable when in reality I just didn't understand it was unacceptable. When I didn't approach other kids to play, they told me I was lazy. When I was getting overloaded during shopping and wanted to go home, I was told to stop being selfish.

People noticed that I wasn't very fluid in my speech. When I was very little, people didn't think anything of it because little kids are not supposed to be that eloquent. When I became bilingual, no matter what language I spoke, people just assumed that I was better at speaking the other language. My parents lectured me a few times to not forget my mother tongue.

Apparently, it was my fault that I was clumsy and fell so much that my teacher got concerned about me.

In fact, every time my teachers got concerned about me and thought perhaps I should get tested, my parents brushed it off and said to me, "Be normal! Even your teacher thinks there's something wrong with you!" Although my teachers probably did not expect autism.

So basically, my parents did not want to deal with it being near or at the top of the list.


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01 Jan 2017, 6:49 pm

Ashariel wrote:
The question has been asked - if a person has a successful career, marriage, children, etc., how could they possibly have autism? And I think it's a valid question. I would completely agree that if such a person had zero problems in functioning, and exhibited no autistic symptoms, then obviously - no, that person is not autistic.

But in cases of people with successful careers and relationships being diagnosed with autism, there is usually at some point a severe breakdown in functioning. They were only barely holding together, and then finally they couldn't anymore. So they sought help, got diagnosed, and learned how to utilize 'supports' that would help them to function again.

So in the mildest cases of autism, the person can handle a job, marriage, children - but only just barely, and receiving support in learning how to cope with autism is what makes the difference in their ability to function.


Actually, if circumstances are right
eg child is taught some basic science at a young age by parent, goes on to have a special interest in science (is viewed as a super geek, but has respect because of his smarts), makes it to uni or not, perhaps drops out to pursue his project.
The Project - genius invention/or collection of inventions to make some aspect of life easier or something super efficient.
Gets investors, sells product, perhaps becomes a shareholder, or sells company/invention.

The Special interest could be something else such as; business and perhaps streamlines a company or has a way to make a business more streamlined (eg mail order /internet order).

I've heard of these people. They got lucky (early interest & encouragement, along with some brains), everything was ripe for them to create/develop successful project (all aspects came to the Aspies knowledge, no one else saw what they saw). And the special interest needs to be a high profit field, many artists that are successful take decades to get there - it's a low profit/gamble.

Personally I wish that I'd had more encouragement from my teachers - but their classes were a bore, it was rote learning, sometimes they made me redo stuff because they thought I didn't understand it, which made me sleepy, and so they thought I was stupid, because I was doing it slower/not even bothering as it was so boring.
My family were divorced and never cared if I were failing.
Even when I mistakenly went to university, I got on the wrong course.

Lately I've been studying Chemistry in depth. If anyone that ever knew me from school saw me now - they wouldn't believe it.
Hopefully with friendly (exciting) youtube instructional videos Aspies of the future will have an earlier path to success.



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02 Jan 2017, 11:19 am

248RPA wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Amazing autistic kids of the 90's and 00's going undiagnosed. How can a kid with autism in that time period make it all the way through high school undiagnosed? Doesn't make sense. Well I guess it does, but in a lousy way. Probably with parents and teachers just not wanting to deal with it being near or at the top of the list.


I was born in '00, but in a place where pretty much only the more severe cases of autism were diagnosed. Otherwise, you just had to deal with it.

When I covered my ears because the music or somebody's voice was too loud, my parents yelled at me to stop being rude. They also yelled at me to stop being rude when I did something socially unacceptable when in reality I just didn't understand it was unacceptable. When I didn't approach other kids to play, they told me I was lazy. When I was getting overloaded during shopping and wanted to go home, I was told to stop being selfish.

People noticed that I wasn't very fluid in my speech. When I was very little, people didn't think anything of it because little kids are not supposed to be that eloquent. When I became bilingual, no matter what language I spoke, people just assumed that I was better at speaking the other language. My parents lectured me a few times to not forget my mother tongue.

Apparently, it was my fault that I was clumsy and fell so much that my teacher got concerned about me.

...

So basically, my parents did not want to deal with it being near or at the top of the list.


I was born in 1983, but I recognize ALL OF THAT, 248RPA! 8O

248RPA wrote:
...In fact, every time my teachers got concerned about me and thought perhaps I should get tested, my parents brushed it off and said to me, "Be normal! Even your teacher thinks there's something wrong with you!" Although my teachers probably did not expect autism...


I never understood this reaction. The logical reaction when your child is sick, for example, is to show concern too, appreciate the sympathy and notification, and take care of it... NOT get mad at the child for not hiding it! :huh:


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02 Jan 2017, 11:34 am

Bieng born in 1957 parents and teachers did not have to tell me very often as those were my attitudes.


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02 Jan 2017, 8:01 pm

I think this is a good question. Every person is different, from one perspective.

I don't think any single physiological mechanism has been conclusively established as the cause of autism.

Each person seems quirky in her or his own way.

Maybe if you happen to struggle with social and sensory issues and prefer detailed focus, but otherwise appear "normal", then we call you HFA these days.

I was offered a DX, but decided to not make it official. Mainly since I'm old enough to have made it through the years when my different kind of normal made life a real struggle. I often wonder if I really "have it". The line between "normal" and different seems very fuzzy oftentimes.



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02 Jan 2017, 10:50 pm

Ah, all of this talk about stuff that happened during school days sure makes me remember alot.

I had a similar situation to some here... Was seen as lazy and anti-social, was bullied all the time, never talked to anyone (why would I want to?) and very clearly hated basically everything (which honestly hasnt changed, heh). Homework? Yeah right. Wasnt happening. Wasnt that I couldnt do it, or even just a matter of forgetting (though there was that). Mostly, I didnt CARE. All of these stupid subjects that they were trying to drill into our heads for nothing resembling a real reason. Why in the bloody hell would I ever need to know what happened during the Battle of Frog Mountain or whatever damn stupid fight it was each time? No interest! I remember I used to repeat to my parents (and others), over and over, that this stuff was totally useless and I'd never need to know it. I'd never USE any of this crap. School would end someday, and I'd just forget it all, because it was unnecessary to start with. They always tried to say that of course I would need it. Three guesses as to who was actually correct.

That I was doing things like learning computers entirely on my own (during the DOS era, no less) didnt matter worth a damn... no, all that mattered is that I didnt know why Chemical X added to Chemical Y explodes! Yeah, real practical stuff there!

Gym class was the absolute worst though. Sort of. I dont do sports. Never did, never will. Seems bloody stupid to me. And I dont deal with being pressured very well... which is to say that I'll react badly and basically do everything to force the opposite of what I'm being pressured to do. Which is what happened there... I just outright refused to do any of it. Stood around, didnt do anything. Heck, I remember one time when we were supposed to be doing some damn football game (American football) or something, and the ball for whatever stupid reason landed next to me. My reaction? Kick the freaking thing as hard as I possibly could (and I have very strong legs) in a totally random direction away from the field. They rather gave up after that. I ended up in a bit of a different program; Tuesdays and Thursdays I'd go out with a few others, on a bus, to a golf practice field (which is something I DID like, though I refused to call it a "sport") and do that for awhile. Which also led to the odd side effect of me carrying around a big metal golf club everywhere on those days (sure wouldnt be able to do that nowadays, eh?). Since I never went to my locker for any reason, on those days it was *always* with me. Incidentally, the usual jerks never came near on those days. On normal days, during that stupid class, I'd just walk aimlessly around the track, and that was enough for them. Side effect of keeping me away from other students, basically all of which I hated.


And of course all of this and nobody suspected or even thought of autism. It wasnt until so very much later, many years, that I'd get a diagnosis; long after college, even, and after so very many failed jobs (I dont work anymore, luckily).

So yeah, that's my experience as someone that graduated highschool in 2000. That lack of diagnosis and understanding really can hurt things. Everyone just thinks you're lazy or something, or even stupid in some cases. It sucks. There were two, and ONLY two, things I learned from those stupid years in that place: 1, how to type, and 2... that most people are snotballs.



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03 Jan 2017, 2:31 am

I guess the general population lack an understanding of what autsim and autism spectrum disorders are. Everyone has always thought I was weird, alternative, quirky and mentally unstable. Even considering a diagnosis of ASD, those closest to me reject the diagnosis and standby the idea that I'm just weird.



owenc
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03 Jan 2017, 8:37 pm

Traits vary and people learn/adapt to pick up social norms.



Last edited by owenc on 03 Jan 2017, 8:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

owenc
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03 Jan 2017, 8:39 pm

somanyspoons wrote:
Some of us are master actors. We've studied facial expressions, body language and tone of voice, and we're able to select what is appropriate in most moments. The problem comes when we face a social situation that is new for us. I come of completely normal. But I don't have experience with intimate relationships or close friendships. That's when people start to notice that something is off. I tend to freeze completely or get robotic in my responses.

It's important to note that my methods aren't accessible to everyone. The extent of my impairment with some of the harder aspects of autism is pretty mild. What I mean by this is that I'm able to "act" my way through most of the time, but some autistic people can't do this or chose not to do this for their own reasons. For example, I've seen an autistic woman who is able to talk typically, but it wears her out and she gets this whole body pain, so she chooses to use on of those talk boards.


+1.