Who doesn't like Tony Attwood?

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I like him, but I've met two autistic ppl who don't. They criticised that he would over-dx ASD because they wanted to have the Asperger diagnosis more narrow.

The idea that Americans have no sense of humor is nonsense. That's just BS nationalist crap that people say about other countries.

Sitcoms are representative of sitcoms.

I don't know that it's accurate to describe Attwood's jokes as typical for Australian humor, although given some of the racist crap I've seen flying around under the guise of Australia Day, maybe a lot of Australian humor is just terrible and predicated upon exploiting and mocking people who are in vulnerable demographics. Which, really, isn't something to be proud of.



I trust Karla Fisher's judgment on this. She is not oversensitive, thin-skinned, etc. She's not going to just decide to be offended, She's also not the only person to interpret his humor as mocking autistic people.

And someone having a family member who is autistic does not guarantee that they're going to be 100% pristine perfect in their understanding of autism or reactions to mockery. I've been mocked and abused by family members, so that line of discussion seems very weak to me.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter what his intent is, it seems that the outcome has been that autistic people who have seen it do not care for it. Rather than accuse them of lacking a sense of humor and telling them they don't know what they're talking about, maybe he could modify his presentation so he doesn't end up with autistic people feeling mocked or belittled by his jokes. Certainly he could do this without ruining the informative nature of his commentary.

I'll see if I can stay away from this thread for another six days because it's better to deal with all the excuse-making in one go.

First thanks for catching the error in the interpretation of Aquinas.

Second, I agree Dr. Gaus's book was indeed great. Very thick with all the detailed information though, yes, more geared toward clinicians. However, she has written a second book called "Living Well on the Spectrum" that is geared toward the person on the spectrum and is extremely useful.

I've only read his book, and thought it's a great introduction book to autism. If I had any complaints it would be the book is a bit long and boring at places, not enough humor and seems rather inefficient. I highly value efficiency in communications and can skip the touching details.

I think instructional manual type of books suit me best.

I think the bottom line is putting certain NTs who claim to be experts on "us" on a pedestal is unnecessary. There are a multitude of researchers over the last 30-40 years in many different countries who have contributed toward understanding autism.

LOL so have I. I don't like people showing up unannounced. It is an intrusion. If they think it's ok to do it once, they will keep doing it. Ugh. Boundaries, please!! !

I've done it, too. I felt ridiculous but it was better than answering the door.

I think there are cultures where unannounced visits are normal. There may be regional differences in that in the US. I know a person who does this regularly. We are relatives, so there is nothing I can do about it.

I agree. Many researchers have contributed to autism research and increasingly more as more people get into it as a new aspect of their area. It's also unnecessary to do the same with autistic people like temple grandin and donna williams or other authors/advocates. Each autistic person has as much to offer from their own eggsperiences as any of these autistic people who have become more public figures. It is best to take broad looks at autism research and personal eggsperiences than to focus on one or few eggsperts in either domain.

What about that bucket of tar over the door that empties onto their head when they ring the bell?

But that would tarnish the pristine homestead. It is bester for such misfortune to befall them farther from their destination.

I have enormous respect for Karla, but I trust my own senses more. I feel some empathy for her and for Attwood and or the people in the audience laughing.

I don't think this is necessarily a case where there is a single truth, or a black/white thing. I respect Karla and her perception, but truly believe that she is seeing a maliciousness that isn't there.


This reminds me of a time in the late 1980s when I was at university. There were a series of demonstrations/marches organized under the banner "take back the night" protesting sexual harrasment in the streets and violence against women.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_Back_the_Night

At one of the organizing events, a series of women spoke about personal experiences of misogyny, threat and violence victimizing women. One speaker concluded her remarks by saying that she had very poor eyesight and was short and felt intimidated by all men, but particularly large men, who greeted her in the street, even friends and classmates, because she could not immediately identify them.

This lead to some discussion and the idea that "It doesn't matter what the intent is" was central to that dialogue. I am about 6'3" and not slight. I don't want to frighten or intimidate anyone, but apparently I may do so inadvertently simply by being a large male. I regret any distress that a friendly greeting might cause, but there is really no way for me to modify my behavior to cater to every persons psychological needs when I am operating in public. I reject the notion that I might be responsible for her very real fear.

The reason I am bringing this up is that it seems clear to me that it's a situation where there are no moral absolutes.

I don't think Attwood is mocking people and I think intent does make a difference. I don't think it's such a simple thing to ask someone to remove their sense of humor from their communicative repertoire. More than that, I think this is probably highly effective with some of his audiences.

I recall an organized D&D event at a local game shop in which the DM mentioned a player he had particular trouble with. He attributed this players problematic approach to the game, the DM and the other players to Aspergers. When I heard him say this, I was very uncomfortable and became sort of tongue-tied and had to just leave. I was upset. I felt his language was inadvertently hurtful, but I don't think he was being malicious. He was simply trying to understand the situation and that was an explanation that made sense to him. He's not a bad guy. Nevertheless, I was upset.

This looks to me like a similar situation and I don't see the debatable interpretation of this one aspect of his public life as somehow transforming a person who has demonstrated a tremendous amount of compassion and empathy for autistic people into a s**t.

Well said above, Adamantium!

It's funny, there are times in my life when I resort to ridiculous coping mechanisms, and when I do they are not at all funny--they are perfectly justifiable and necessary--but when I come out the other side in a place of more equilibrium, then I realize how absurd my behaviors probably looked. I don't always recognize this until maybe I really think hard about it, someone points it out to me, something triggers my recollection, or someone portrays it comedically. And during those times when that happens, I can laugh at myself. However, if I'm in the thick of those behaviors and I witness someone portraying it comedically, I can get as freaking angry as a banshee!! !

It really depends on what frame of mind I'm in at the moment, how I interpret the intention.

From what I know about Attwood he doesn't seem like the type to mock autistic people, so I think his act actually shows a sort of respect in a way, showing the condition isn't demoralizing enough to be immune from humor.

Agreed Btbnnyr

Oh boy, I have read Tony's book back years ago and found it full of stereotypes and generally unhelpful information. He is an NT so of course his "intimate" understanding of A.S is not going to be entirely accurate despite being and so-called expert on it and having an ASD kid.

I wish one of our own could right a book on ASD.

-Me me *raises hand* I don’t like Attwood,
ok to be serious now

I know and understand why not everyone feels like I do and been helped tremendously because of Attwood, but I feel very strongly the opposite.

It's incredible slanderous that he says things,
it's remarkable how much empathy they can show, or they can be good mothers but then they must feel insecure like they are bad mothers.

He has not tried to understand autism he has researched it like you do apes or rats, instead of trying to talk autistic people he has observed and done a simplification who denies individuality and is based on the ableism assumption that NT is the superior way and when autism differ it’s simply because we don’t understand instead of trying to see the reason to why.

He talks like it's a must for all individuals to follow the same template and it's this kind of thinking he manifest in psychiatrist and society to have the right to dictate how we are like a stereotype. Which is the sort of offensive treatment that makes us less human than “normal”, we don’t have a right to be individuals and if we do something outside the box we are remarkable because we are lesser and shouldn’t be able to feel or have empathy or achieve anything outside what he limited us for that matter.

I can understand for those who it has helped but for me I have been forced into it without consideration if I recognize myself or not.

Because he also managed to cover that if we have own opinions in what our difficulties is it’s a sign of denial, which justified psychiatrist to stop listening to our opinion or voices which makes us lesser worth than a normal only just a product to put a stamp in the head so you don’t need to try to understand.

I mean as an autistic you don’t even get to have depression or at least they won’t treat it as they would an NT because you can just blame the autism for all our feelings so they can just pass us on like unhelp-able not worthy of listening or empathize with and there are only one way to “treat” us for all the different issues we may have because Tony Attwood have neatly sorted us in a way we must be.

For me (and if you do and can be helped and better confident by his statements then it's terrific) I feel like, do we have so bad confidence in ourselves that we praise him for saying some kind words (which kind of makes him more pitiful of us if anything) in-between his very condescending outlook of autism, it kind of is the same generalizing with the same attitude racism have because he just assumes without trying to understand an autism point of view and that NT is superior and we are all the same meanwhile the range of difference within the group is like sort someone based on ethnics.

I mean we vary more than NT in difficulty’s and it would be more successful sorting everyone with NT like they are one and the same, ok being quite sarcastic that would be terrible but it’s the same way they do to us.
I mean he may say he looks up on autism or whatever but still he talks like we are one and the same and all our issues are always based on being lesser or don’t understanding, while I feel a lot of my issues is the opposite, I understand and feel too much. (I would be really interested if anyone else recognize themselves in feeling and understanding to much)