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I consider Rain Man...
Poll ended at 11 Apr 2017, 5:34 pm
An Aspie and AS/HFA are the same 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Mild/HFA and AS/HFA are different 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Moderate and AS/HFA are the same 16%  16%  [ 3 ]
Moderate and AS/HFA are different 32%  32%  [ 6 ]
Severe and AS/HFA are the same 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
Severe and AS/HFA are different 37%  37%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 19

kraftiekortie
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08 Apr 2017, 7:32 am

The guy on the bottom video seems to have much more severe autism than the other two kids. I've seen other videos of the bottom kid. He self-injures himself. He has no verbal speech. He only communicates in simple terms on his AAC device.

The other two kids are able to speak and to be social to a certain extent. They communicate with those around them; whereas the bottom person has to be prompted to communicate with others. It's possible that their intellectual disability causes more problems than their autism.

The kid in "this is autism" seems similar in functioning to the "other two" kids, though I'm still not sure about his intellectual level.



EzraS
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08 Apr 2017, 8:22 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The guy on the bottom video seems to have much more severe autism than the other two kids. I've seen other videos of the bottom kid. He self-injures himself. He has no verbal speech. He only communicates in simple terms on his AAC device.

The other two kids are able to speak and to be social to a certain extent. They communicate with those around them; whereas the bottom person has to be prompted to communicate with others. It's possible that their intellectual disability causes more problems than their autism.

The kid in "this is autism" seems similar in functioning to the "other two" kids, though I'm still not sure about his intellectual level.


Communication is just a part of it though. Really being basically nonverbal is something I consider the lesser of my difficulties. There's so much regular day to day stuff that makes my autism so difficult. And like in my case where there isn't intellectual impairment, there's cognitive impairment. It's like the center of my brain where my intellect is works just fine, but the rest of it is a tangled chaotic mess. A lot of it comes down to how much a person can do on their own vs having to be looked after. Overall aptitude is an important factor.



kraftiekortie
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08 Apr 2017, 8:31 am

Based upon the prevailing definition of "cognitive impairment," you don't seem to have "cognitive impairment." Often, when "cognitive impairment" is referenced, it is applied to people with intellectual disabilities.

I sense that many of your problems are more of a physical/neurological nature, rather than a cognitive nature per se. Your dyspraxia is neurological, which leads to physical difficulty with speaking. Perhaps, your academic difficulties are a matter of "executive functioning" difficulties, rather than cognitive difficulties. Your ability to learn and benefit from your learning appears to be relatively unimpaired.

Cognitive impairment, to me, involves a decreased ability to benefit from what you've learned, and an inability to adjust to your environment. I feel your difficulties in your environment are neurological, rather than cognitive. You adjust as much as your neurology enables you to adjust.

I wonder what your dad would say about this. I'm sure he researched autism extensively.



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08 Apr 2017, 9:03 am

Skilpadde wrote:
I don't consider AS and HFA to be exactly the same. AS is about having no speech delay and no delay in self help skills. To me it's a significant difference between hitting the early mile stones (and not needing any more parental care than most kids, be able to be out alone, go grocery shopping and be home alone for a while as a bigger kid etc), and someone who can't.

It was also supposed to be a difference that AS usually comes with higher verbal IQ and HFA with higher performance IQ.

There used to be a member here who said that the problem with any category you could come up with to differentiate between HFA and AS, any given criteria would be true for about half of both groups.

Three other people I have been in touch with thought there were differences between HFA and AS, including:
- in an autism center aspies wanting to talk about their problems while HFA wanting to play games and have fun
- HFA having poorer speech even as teens (the person saying this based it on an HFA friend he had, he was aspie)
- HFA having less need to participate in chats, being happy to keep their thoughts to themselves, apparently unlike aspies
- aspies having more need to be social than HFA
- aspies being really obsessive about their obsessions while HFA are interested but not obsessive in the same way and less likely to collect things in connection to their interest (if for instance the person likes trains, a HFA would like trains, while an aspie would love trains, think trains, speak of trains, collect trains and train related things ranging from actual models to duvet covers and books (this from two sisters with HFA and AS diagnoses respectively)

Regardless, none of these things will be true only for the members of one of the groups nor for all the members of said group. There might be some differences between HFA and AS but there are likely more similarities than differences.


Okay, so reading this, I'm slightly more Aspie than HFA.
We're all unique individuals, anyway.

I was just wondering the other day whether maybe if I were to reach a certain amount of success in the NT world,
I could consider myself an NT ...
but then there would still be the sensory issues.
And actually, I believe I would still have many other autistic differences
when it comes to actual ways of thinking, for example ...
so it's more likely that success in the NT world would actually mean
being able to pass as an NT
rather than actually becoming an NT.

Again, we're all unique individuals.
So why not just be our best selves,
without all the labels? 8)



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08 Apr 2017, 9:28 am

EzraS wrote:
Communication is just a part of it though. Really being basically nonverbal is something I consider the lesser of my difficulties. There's so much regular day to day stuff that makes my autism so difficult. And like in my case where there isn't intellectual impairment, there's cognitive impairment. It's like the center of my brain where my intellect is works just fine, but the rest of it is a tangled chaotic mess. A lot of it comes down to how much a person can do on their own vs having to be looked after. Overall aptitude is an important factor.


Well, EzraS,

You certainly seem like an intelligent, well-spoken (more accurately, well-written), age-appropriate young adult to me. That said, yes, I understand where you're coming from in terms of having deficits as well. And the good news is, you can still learn, grow, and improve ... half the battle is being open to doing so. (And yes, it can be a battle ...)

In my case, it translates to being an artist who has experienced success in having my artwork publicly exhibited and sold ... but I nearly went into a meltdown when an art teacher taught me how to put wire on the back of some paintings so I could hang them, and in fact, while I have my framed artwork scattered all over my apartment, none of it is hanging up because I'm afraid of pounding a nail into the wall with a hammer.

As my dear grandma used to ask me, "How can you be so smart in some ways and so dumb in others?" :D

...



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08 Apr 2017, 12:01 pm

Let me correct myself a bit.

In most contexts that I have encountered, a "cognitive deficit" is another way of saying "intellectual disability."

However, something like a deficit in executive function is also seen as being a "cognitive deficit." But in is of a "neuropsychological" nature, rather than anything having to do with intellectual ability.

Your "slowness" in things such as typing is purely a function of physical deficits, yet has nothing to do with your "speed" of thinking.



248RPA
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08 Apr 2017, 12:28 pm

Skilpadde wrote:
I don't consider AS and HFA to be exactly the same. AS is about having no speech delay and no delay in self help skills. To me it's a significant difference between hitting the early mile stones (and not needing any more parental care than most kids, be able to be out alone, go grocery shopping and be home alone for a while as a bigger kid etc), and someone who can't.

It was also supposed to be a difference that AS usually comes with higher verbal IQ and HFA with higher performance IQ.

There used to be a member here who said that the problem with any category you could come up with to differentiate between HFA and AS, any given criteria would be true for about half of both groups.

Three other people I have been in touch with thought there were differences between HFA and AS, including:
- in an autism center aspies wanting to talk about their problems while HFA wanting to play games and have fun
- HFA having poorer speech even as teens (the person saying this based it on an HFA friend he had, he was aspie)
- HFA having less need to participate in chats, being happy to keep their thoughts to themselves, apparently unlike aspies
- aspies having more need to be social than HFA
- aspies being really obsessive about their obsessions while HFA are interested but not obsessive in the same way and less likely to collect things in connection to their interest (if for instance the person likes trains, a HFA would like trains, while an aspie would love trains, think trains, speak of trains, collect trains and train related things ranging from actual models to duvet covers and books (this from two sisters with HFA and AS diagnoses respectively)

Regardless, none of these things will be true only for the members of one of the groups nor for all the members of said group. There might be some differences between HFA and AS but there are likely more similarities than differences.

I know we're not supposed to take this seriously. But based on this, the only thing that prevents me from being HFA is that I didn't have a speech delay. My self help was even late.


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EzraS
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08 Apr 2017, 12:46 pm

It really comes down to the tests I take and what they show. I have perceptual problems as far as cognition goes. But a lot of it is neurological as well of course. And it gets confusing as to which is which and what is what. It's like in a Rain Man clip I watched where they guy was able to calculate numbers so fast and the brother said, he's a genius, he should be working for nasa or whatever. But then he failed in practical application of numbers.

But like with my speed of typing. A lot of that is pauses to get my thoughts in order. A post like this can take a long time. Not just because of how slowly my fingers move on the key board. But because I have to pause every few words before being able to continue mentally. But that's anecdotal. It's really the testing that determines where I'm at.



kraftiekortie
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08 Apr 2017, 1:06 pm

Don't knock anecdote. Anecdote is very important in determining many psychological diagnoses these days. Many times, in determining autism in very young children, the observation of a child's play is an important component of the assessment.

Your anecdotal representation of why you are slow makes me understand the reasons for your slowness better. It just takes some time to gather your thoughts.

I'm a fast typist....but sometimes it takes me a while to compose a post. Sometimes, I have difficulty in organizing my thoughts.



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08 Apr 2017, 1:27 pm

EzraS wrote:
I don't think the line, "high functioning" means high functioning as in level 1 Asperger's type autism. I think it means high functioning for someone with level 3 autism. Meaning he's verbal and responds to questions verbally fairly well. But you still couldn't hold a regular conversation with him. I believe the character is definitely supposed to be a classic level 3 autistic.

Yeah, I don't think so, either----and, I also believe Rain Man is supposed to be level 3 (at least, IMO, there's NO WAY he's an Aspie; I believe Sheldon Cooper is one of the best representations of an Aspie, on TV, and there's NO WAY, for instance, that Rain Man could get a PhD).




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08 Apr 2017, 2:33 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
... I believe Sheldon Cooper is one of the best representations of an Aspie, on TV...

I have never watched that show, but I just now read this and found it interesting:
Quote:
The writers have stated they did not use Asperger syndrome as a basis for the character... "Our feeling is that Sheldon's mother never got a diagnosis, so we don't have one"...uncomfortable labeling Sheldon as having Asperger's.

In an interview, Jim Parsons noted the writers' response, but added that, in his opinion, Sheldon "couldn't display more traits" of Asperger's...so focused on the intellectual topics at hand that thinking he's autistic is an easy leap for people watching the show to make."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Cooper

They all obviously know, but are nevertheless avoiding the matter of "Is he or is he not?" lest they be judged for making a non-professional diagnosis.


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the_phoenix
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08 Apr 2017, 2:47 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I don't think the line, "high functioning" means high functioning as in level 1 Asperger's type autism. I think it means high functioning for someone with level 3 autism. Meaning he's verbal and responds to questions verbally fairly well. But you still couldn't hold a regular conversation with him. I believe the character is definitely supposed to be a classic level 3 autistic.

Yeah, I don't think so, either----and, I also believe Rain Man is supposed to be level 3 (at least, IMO, there's NO WAY he's an Aspie; I believe Sheldon Cooper is one of the best representations of an Aspie, on TV, and there's NO WAY, for instance, that Rain Man could get a PhD).


I rarely watch TV,
but one time I attended a Star Trek club meeting
and happened to ask the Captain
why most Star Trek fans weren't interested in real-world astronomy?
The answer was,
"Well, not everyone is Sheldon Cooper, you know."
That was an "aha" moment for me.

... And as for my take on Rain Man, which has been a long time coming in this thread because I watched it years ago when it originally came out, he seems to me like a classic moderate to severe case of autistic savant.

An interesting note is that once, a relative of mine made fun of another relative (both will be nameless)
by calling him "Rain Man" because he happened to say something in a monotone tone of voice.
Back then, I didn't even suspect autism in myself, so I considered the off-handed remark of
"Hey, he sounds just like Rain Man" to be just a dumb joke.
But it could be that mild autism actually does run in the family.



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08 Apr 2017, 2:57 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
... I believe Sheldon Cooper is one of the best representations of an Aspie, on TV...

I have never watched that show, but I just now read this and found it interesting:
Quote:
The writers have stated they did not use Asperger syndrome as a basis for the character... "Our feeling is that Sheldon's mother never got a diagnosis, so we don't have one"...uncomfortable labeling Sheldon as having Asperger's.

In an interview, Jim Parsons noted the writers' response, but added that, in his opinion, Sheldon "couldn't display more traits" of Asperger's...so focused on the intellectual topics at hand that thinking he's autistic is an easy leap for people watching the show to make."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Cooper

They all obviously know, but are nevertheless avoiding the matter of "Is he or is he not?" lest they be judged for making a non-professional diagnosis.


Yeah. The creators of the show may not have originally been aware of aspergers when they created Sheldon Leonard (and his only slightly less aspie acting friends), but they are now quite aware of how their character resembles a cartoonish version of an aspie. But they still dont ID him as an aspie on the show. If they did then they would then be forced to be "sensitive" in their portrayal of aspergers. The ambiguity is also less burdensome to aspie viewers. We can laugh at ourselves when he resembles us, but dont get offended when he does not resemble us. Both the producers and the aspie viewers can have their cake and eat it too because the words aspergers/autism are not mentioned in the show.

Gosh. You must be the only person on WP who has never seen the BBT. You should check it out just to see what everyone else here is talking about all of the time. Some WP are deeply offended by it. But a larger number like it.



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08 Apr 2017, 4:41 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Raymond Babbitt, the character, I believe is moderately/severely affected by autism--but he possesses savant skills.

I believe HFA and Asperger's are different; though both are on the autistic spectrum.


I basically agree with what Kortie said here.

I think that if Raymond Babbitt were "high functioning" he wouldn't need to be institutionalized.
Maybe it was different in the 70's.
But a High Functioning Aspie wouldn't be burning down the house just because the toaster oven set off the fire alarm. Not unless there was more than just Autism Level One going on.


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08 Apr 2017, 5:01 pm

LyraLuthTinu wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Raymond Babbitt, the character, I believe is moderately/severely affected by autism--but he possesses savant skills.

I believe HFA and Asperger's are different; though both are on the autistic spectrum.


I basically agree with what Kortie said here.


Hmmm, I see that actually one of my posts agrees with kraftiekortie's too, I basically ended up just paraphrasing what he said. :)



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08 Apr 2017, 5:05 pm

I would class him as a severe/high-functioning case. He basically needed support with almost everything he did, but at the same time he was actually very intelligent when it came to certain tasks.


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