Does this count as being on the spectrum?

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What makes you think so much though that I "Pavloved" myself as a kid about social communication? What did I say that sounded like that? I really have to strongly emphasize here that I did no such thing. Whatever I learnt - including most aspects of nonverbal cues - was learnt automatically, without me paying attention to it. Whatever was not learned was not learned, either automatically or consciously. About as simple as that.

Yes now I do try to improve a bit more by consciously analyzing and doing that "training program" lol. Of course the best still would just be simply have people in general socially include me a lot while at the same time being open and helpful about some bits of people related stuff so I can have more experiences and pick up some of it that way but I think I missed that train in my the teenage years. (Those girls I mentioned do help though.) So I either catch up this way or not catch up at all. My choice.

As for subtlety in expression - that sort of thing makes me unsure if it's a negative thing that's being expressed. Even when not. That's definitely a kind of confusion. I don't think I'll learn that kind of "more advanced aspect" but I can make myself assume that it's probably neutral stuff, not negative, and I can sometimes make myself take into account the social aspect of the situation to see it's neutral actually. This is new for me.

Or another area that I see as more "advanced": making a small mistake when relating to others - say, I allow myself to be too blunt when sometimes I just can't hold back an opinion because I see the necessity for saying it, even if I know it's blunt, and then someone does show how they didn't like it - it would be seen as small, and not taken out of context, not seen so black and white. I can sometimes take into account aspects of the situation to see that better. Again this is new for me. Before I'd just not think about it and that's ok for small matters but for other ones nope, would lead to bad places with people eventually.

Can you please give me an example of a "complex form", too, to see what you were thinking of?

So, all in all, that's not too far off

but, on another site (https://www.autismspeaks.org/blog/2015/ ... it-treated) they list these things, and I see most of it as "basic" skills that I see as obvious and no problem with them:


* responding to others
[i]Gesturing is an important form of nonverbal social communication.* using gestures (like waving or pointing) - fine, basic.

* taking turns when talking or playing - fine, basic.

* talking about emotions and feelings - NO this is difficult lol. I get oblivious about these things as well, so someone really has to engage me before I get in the right state/mood/whatever that's needed beyond willingness to open up a bit.

* staying on topic - fine, basic.

* adjusting speech to fit different people or situations – for instance, talking differently to a young child versus an adult or lowering one’s voice in a library. - fine, basic.

* asking relevant questions or responding with related ideas during conversation - fine, basic.

* using words for a variety of purposes such as greeting people, making comments, asking questions, making promises, etc. - fine, basic.

* making and keeping friends - as a kid I had friends just fine. Haven't lost that ability of making friends but I did notice I had to catch up on some things - that I must've missed when a teenager - when trying to maintain the relationship with friends in the last couple of years. That seems more okay now. The result is that I have some closer friendships now that I didn't before. It was kind of painful to get as far as this though... And yes, before that I had the socially oblivious period with no friends keeping in touch.

OK that's all I can think of. Really appreciate your having analyzed all those detailed descriptions before, it did help. It's OK if you don't have too much in-depth input for this now, of course.

Hi Itsme82,

I wasn't saying that you have the "paradox" I described, nor did I say you have disdain for people. I was merely speculating, and asking questions.

No, you don't come off as somebody who arrogantly corrects people. Rather, you come off as thorough---and therefore, people might get the wrong impression. You stated that yourself.

No, I don't believe you should "change." Rather, I believe you should adjust a little, and consider that people aren't as thorough as you.

At the same time, I believe you should seek out people who believe in your philosophy of life--in your thoroughness. Those sorts of people exist. And some of them even have a good sense of humor

In essence, I believe it would be easier for you to connect to people if you show that you enjoy people. People who are logical/analytical tend not to give the impression that they enjoy people.

Please do remember that I'm asking questions, and I am NOT assuming you are a certain way. It's impossible for me to determine if you are a "certain way", because I don't see you and I've never met you. It would be presumptuous of me to make such an assumption about a person.

In truth, I believe you have a pressing desire to relate to others. And are making a fine attempt at it. The reason why I am responding to you is because I feel you have a sincerity about you.

And I admire your proficiency in English, since it is not your first language. I am curious as to where you reside; but, obviously, you don't want to reveal that information.

You can train yourself subconsciously without it being instinct. I'm saying you could have been unaware of it. Your current methods might be derived from it. Essentially, I'm using current models to predict a past model.

By complex I refer to compiled subtleties that create various coexisting communications that could leave one confused as to the primary message (e.g. someone listening politely to something they don't care about can have multiple subtext where the individual likes the other person and that affection is communicated but at the same time there are subtle cues that they are disinterested but they overtly try to convey attentiveness. A polite attentiveness would be easier to read than one where the person is emotionally attached, so the person that has trouble with this will confuse emotional attentiveness to actual attentiveness).

I think that since the disorder is a fresh addition to the dsm5 it doesn't
take into account adults that have it (much like ASD in adults is still overlooked). To know, you would have to ask people and relatives about your developmental years. As an adult coping mechanisms exist that would obscure the severity from you and others.

You really should get a profile from other people, family, friends, etc. (especially those that knew you when you were young). Profiling online is difficult since all we have is your perspective on this and your written demeanor (and you are admittedly worse online when it comes to reading into things which could cloud things).

I just suspect spcd is the most likely candidate unless someone has a better option that fits. Likely, it wouldn't be or rather it wouldn't have been clinically significant if there weren't the emotional issues to compound things. Right now, I think it's less a problem of communication (you have learned pretty well) but rather emotional reciprocity or openess closing certain lines of communication for you.

One thing on BAP, this is used to refer to family members around someone being diagnosed for ASD to find autistic qualities that would suggest a genetic origin. If Itsme82 is the only one in her family with these traits then I would consider BAP to be invalid.

OCPD was the other candidate but everything I've seen conveyed by her seems to not be anxiety based beside a blip in the teenage years where hormones cause tons of anxiety for anyone. There is also the lack of RRBI to suggest it.

The biggest thing I see is confusion at emotional communication and I have suspicions of further communication issues that were overcome but that can only be confirmed by those that knew her in childhood.

Indeed there must be a problem on a communicational point of view: I find it unusual to post such a long post, given that few would read it up to the end (i'm sorry to say). It is unusual, but not typical to autism.

You say you did not qualify for autism according to the tests.

Well, when we autists do the test, we just know this Is it, even while doing the test. It is like a revelation and that explains everything, ourselves, the others, everything. Apparently, not your case.

So... I've had enough of this lingering issue that I've had for many years and I want to figure out what the heck is going on. I never wanted to think of myself as being on the spectrum because I definitely don't relate to many issues of Asperger/autistic people. Let me describe where I might relate - I'm not sure if it qualifies though. Let me know. Oh and I'm a woman in my early thirties if that matters. And English is only my second language.

I realize the following is pretty long. So a very quick summary: I'm a 90% logical woman who can read some body language/facial expressions alright IRL, so I am 100% logical only online without such body language unless emotions are shown to me in an obvious enough way, having had way too much trouble with certain people due to that though. A too serious and aggressive know-it-all for their liking and sometimes if - on top of all that - I enter an extra hyperrational "anal" logical mode then no matter how much I try to tone down myself, it will end up extra bad. I also lack some people related experience due to my hearing issues. So all in all, I am sure I do miss some subtle social cues/dynamics, especially online. I try to not look "weird" IRL and I do have less of a problem IRL with people - but I want to fix the online stuff and some other people related stuff in general, which has been on my mind a LOT lately. (With that lately causing a LOT of stress subconsciously even if that mostly goes unnoticed by me.) Does all this make me qualify?



Anyway, first more about the problem. I've had people "gang up" on me before in several online places or just get hated on by some individuals. Either openly or behind my back. With me never understanding what the problem was. Never realizing that a problem is developing until it comes out clearly.

I apparently can make people uncomfortable in arguments without them saying there is a problem until it's too late and they just end up hating me individually or do the "ganging up". I put that in quotes because it's a usually spontaneous thing with the "ganging up" against me, not an organized effort from people.

But one on one talking is usually fine. It's just in groups where problems start easily. Though not always, there have been some exceptions where people had no problem and accepted me over time fine. I'm also an op on an IRC channel and that one is fine too (maybe because I am the op For people not familiar with IRC: it's a chat interface and "op" means the moderator of the chatroom).

I also remember being on a forum (first one ever in my life) when I was 18. People there accepted me and then said they wanted to help me have fun socially and that they'd teach me so fast . (Unfortunately I didn't really meet them afterwards so idk what that would've meant in practice.)

This is all online. IRL I cannot talk in bigger groups because my hearing isn't good enough for that. One on one is fine IRL too. I can talk in groups if there are no more than three people besides myself and those are OK too.


The thing is however, I don't do certain disinhibited expressions/actions in many things like I read about aspies. And I don't take every single sentence literally. I just argue in a strong style, and beyond that too, in technical or logical topics on these forums, I'll freely correct some things, give my opinion to educate them etc. People find me a know-it-all or too aggressive. I do like or at last don't mind heated arguments, for sure. But I'm not aggressive without a real point. Both online and IRL, though IRL I perceive different boundaries than online - stronger ones for sure. I have some aspects of body language at my disposal there, so that helps. (I don't mean subtle emotional cues, though. More like other cues about acceptable behaviour etc.)


Where I said I don't take everything literally - it does happen that I do. This mostly happens if I'm in my "technical mode" which is pretty often in these places. Unless the sentence was coming with a big emoticon or if is written in a way that the tone is VERY obvious... many people actually don't seem to be so good at making the tone of an online sentence so VERY obvious.

In that "technical mode" I'm just logical, fully impersonal, I've actually been accused of deliberately trying to show a hyperrational mask. Because it can be so incredibly unemotional that seems not natural to some people. Except I don't know if it's a mask really. I'm genuinely simply impersonal then, I am not pretending.


Well then, I would first have to be put in a different mood to be not so logical. This is possible but online, people would often have to try at that more than once before I get put in that mood. Again, it has to be more in my face than for some other people, like I said above with the "VERY obvious" tone of a written sentence.

IRL I would automatically read some facial expressions a bit better and I can enter the not-so-logical mood a bit more easily - being impersonal is my default IRL too though. But online I just have the computer monitor in front of me, no facial expressions or other nonverbal context! IRL too, I won't read subtle facial expressions, just the more obvious ones, no problem with those though. No problem with copying other people in visible behaviours and staying in line with my behaviour IRL since I'd hate to look weird/out of line.


The other thing that I don't know whether it qualifies as being on the spectrum is my sense of humour. By default I hardly ever laugh or be humorous because I hardly spend time with people who'd put me into that mood. I can suddenly develop some sense of humour though if they happen to do that to my mood. Again, it can take a bit of time though to get there in some cases. But by default, no... I don't easily get into that place with the mood.

And then if I am in my default "humourless" mode, in that more "serious mood", I will still be able to see if something was a joke but then I might react in a way that in my opinion should make it still obvious that I saw it was a joke and enjoyed it a bit for a second, yet other people think I missed it was just a joke. Basically what I do (if this is online) is, I first put an emoticon of smiling or laughing and then I ask something about the joke if I happen to be interested in its logical meaning too. And people often just somehow forget that I actually put that emoticon there before going into the impersonal-logical-literal mode... Weird.


More on being so um, logical. My logic is very distinct/concrete and incredibly detail oriented but also very thorough. It helps that I definitely do not always expose my thought processes of how I analyze things, especially not IRL with most people, since I just don't tend to be interested in that IRL, I'm more paying attention to other things instead and anyway, that stuff would be out of line behaviour.

But on some forums if I get into that mode of mine too much because of being driven to understand something ASAP - tbh, this urgency has been more often the case since I've got into trying to understand myself and people more -, then I do have to expose my hyperlogical thought processes and then no matter how much I try to tone it down, no matter how many "please" and "thanks a lot" etc phrases I add, no matter how much I just try to ask the most important questions or add the most important corrections and don't express the rest, while withholding any impatience and the "aggressiveness", people can still end up feeling uncomfortable. Like recently, I thought I was really being fine and the person still ended up upset secretly until later it all came out. I'm at a loss for words with that one really.


So all in all, I'm pretty logical though I don't see myself as 100% rational. Not always hyperrational-hyperlogical. I also don't live in some abstract world in my head enough to call myself 100% rational. If this makes sense. But, with people, I need emotions shown in my face enough to see them but then I can react well to them. I can miss or not get conscious enough - only get half-conscious of it before it gets dropped from my awareness - of some emotional aspects of situations that most people are attuned into - online especially, IRL this is only if it's subtle expressions because those can confuse me and I'll assume they are negative - and then I just shut down, I'll simply stop doing whatever I was doing to not be out of line.

But I don't despise emotions, I never think of other people as "too emotional" or "irrational". I'm just not so in touch with some of them myself. And I have realized that I have these problems the most if I get in that too hyperrational mode, which yeah, is more likely to happen online. The more frequent know-it-all mode is still quite logical though so that can still offend or upset people, just maybe with less crazy results, though this depends on the specific people too. More okay IRL but - besides not being interested in stuff requiring that mode and being aware of some nonverbal aspects more - I talk less anyway, since I find talking draining.


I took some asperger/autism tests online before, never qualified for it. There was this really long one once that asked about neurotypical vs asperger things in several domains of functioning. I came out very neurotypical in perception and quite strongly neurotypical in talents too, a bit more borderline-ish in the communication/relationships area, where I had a low-ish score of the neurotypical skills but also scored low-ish for the aspie type of approach for communication/relationships. And I had 1-2 talents that were not neurotypical. This isn't news to me, I know I have this side of mine that crunches numbers like a machine lol. That's what's not neurotypical about my talents. Also, my being more literal than quite some people, though not 100% literal since it also depends on context/situation as I explained above.

But, for sure, a friend of mine once told me that he sees me as needing sentences put with mathematical precision when we Skype. I think he exaggerated tho'. This is also more online again, where I cannot put ambiguous lines together if things are moving too fast in a chat - I can actually put them together if I am allowed to go into reflection mode for a few seconds but that requires silence - or they are to do with subtle-ish jokes that I'm not familiar with etc.

It doesn't help that I'm not familiar with many social and cultural things since I don't socialize much, part because of my hearing and part because I'll get oblivious of that aspect if people don't put me into that mood as explained above. I'm also really bad at certain "witty" jokes yeah, regardless of situation, my mind just will never work in a way to follow witty wordplays etc.


The closest thing to me thinking (beyond the special skills thing as above) that I could be partially on the spectrum or having some related issue was when I used to go to a running forum. I had some conflicts there though not too many, some people were cool - but then I heard from someone later that some of the runners from there met IRL for some dinner and they'd talk about me behind my back, claiming that I was "weird and exhausting". That hit really hard. I never want to be seen as "weird". Don't know why, I just don't want to, it's just something I always had about not wanting to look weird or out of line with my behaviour. I don't want to get looks from people and whatever.

On that forum, I was definitely doing some of the know-it-all behaviour and some arguments especially when someone would piss me off. I also had a public blog where I wrote a lot about my analysis of my training using a lot of numbers, technical terms etc. I did not do the version of the extreme hyperrational thing asking people about stuff with me wanting to figure out something ASAP, though (that's really more about people stuff lately, as I said - on pop-psychology forums).

The other closest thing was really recent, on one of those pop-psychology forums, where I was deliberately making so much of an effort to not get the previous really bad experience about people "ganging up" repeated. I toned it all down as much as I could. Yet it repeated.



Well... What do you think? Thanks for any thoughts.