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Joe90
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14 Jun 2017, 10:31 am

Well, the sheep behaviour does annoy me, like when everybody heads to the supermarket on Christmas eve like there's going to be an apocolypse upon us. But there are still some NTs out there who aren't weird but think twice instead of just doing what everyone else is doing.

I still wouldn't want to be a lone wolf. In society, you need to be either socially skilled or brainy. I'm neither. Even some NTs are neither. So Aspies like me, and the introverted NTs who lack confidence, will always struggle in this society. And other neurodiverse too, if their condition affects their social skills or intellectual skills.


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1Biggles1
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14 Jun 2017, 10:51 am

The question of disliking ones Autism or liking is a bit open ended for me... What would be the answer if one was treated well throughout life, if one wasnt bullied,missunderstood, if one could have dim light shopping malls, if one was accepted, if ones difference didnt effect other people... Then really it wouldn't be the autism for most, It is how we are treated and stigmatized that effects most of us, not who we actually are! People fear difference, people fear what they do not know or understand, people gain deceptive strength by making people feel weak... Are these the people you all want to be?

All these questions/answers are based on others perceptions of us not the Autism itself. If the world was mainly autistic and catered for those and you were NT, would you then want to be autistic to fit in?

The question is ''Do you dislike your autism?''
Not ''Do you dislike peoples perceptions of autism?''

Yes i dislike peoples perceptions of autism but i dont dislike who i am, i am happy i think the way i do, and what i can often experience that many cannot.

Yes it can effect us all differently and some it can be way too overwhelming and can understand why they would want certain things to ''stop''.
But forget people and perceptions, think about oneself are you happy you are you?



SubtleCow
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14 Jun 2017, 11:12 am

tl:dr On good days I value my autism, on bad days I hate it

My family really aggressively discouraged autistic behaviours, anything they could interpret as autistic even things that were not at all related. So I learned to hate those parts of myself, I mirrored everyone around me. I became really good at reflecting what people wanted to see, and I was able to 'get along' with almost everyone. I was also a chronic victim because of that constant parental aggression. I attracted a lot of very unpleasant people, and I never noticed how I was being used to inflate NT egos.

Now that I'm an adult I struggle with accepting myself (all of myself not just the AS). A lot of the friends I had were 'friends' with me for their own benefit. As I slowly accept myself my 'friends' are no longer receiving the same benefits and I have to fight against constant backlash and bullying from them. I'm constantly working past feelings of "maybe autism really does make me a terrible person", and "maybe I should keep up the act even though it would drive me into an early grave".

I'm right in the middle of this process and on good days I feel more genuine and happy then I ever have before, and on bad days I feel like a worthless sack of s**t.



rileydaboss2000
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15 Jun 2017, 5:30 am

I'm split on this. One side it's good because it makes me a special person, so I prefer to be in that small group, and has given me some of the traits that I love, which is me having so many interests and my total flapping. On the other site, I think it's bad because of the numerous times I have gotten stressed, had severe meltdowns and suffered from severe anxiety problems. Those have been serious problems throughout my life and that's the part that I hate.

Overall, I have mixed views, but hopefully it will be valued :)



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15 Jun 2017, 5:50 am

rileydaboss2000 wrote:
I'm split on this. One side it's good because it makes me a special person, so I prefer to be in that small group, and has given me some of the traits that I love, which is me having so many interests and my total flapping. On the other site, I think it's bad because of the numerous times I have gotten stressed, had severe meltdowns and suffered from severe anxiety problems. Those have been serious problems throughout my life and that's the part that I hate.

Overall, I have mixed views, but hopefully it will be valued :)


Yes, many aspects depending on the individual can have more hardships than the general public. However, knowing, especially a late diagnosis can help just understand one is not going nuts when one knows they are different... When younger as for myself you always think things will get better when you get older and that it will all go away. Then you hit the 40ish age group and the realization ends up being very much the opposite. So having a ''name'' to be able to identify those thoughts you may feel was just paranoia can help tremendously.
Many of the hardships remain, but again as i have mentioned in another thread, i wouldnt want to be anything else other than who i am... Generally the main hardships are those that are ignorant and arrogant that increase the likely hood of co morbids like depression and increased anxiety to name a few...
So now after spending a lifetime of wanting to fit in/being accepted, i am having to change 40 years of an ideology for another that works for me... It is not easy at all, far from it... But there is no other option...
Everyone is different and symptoms will vary... Its just finding the life that fits for onself rather than spending a lifetime like myself fearful of what other people think and doing things for people to get some form of acceptance.
If i had known when i was younger ''maybe'' things may have been different but this is the only life i know and have to learn to accept and find what works for me.



Joe90
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15 Jun 2017, 6:02 am

I think what I hate most about having ASD is the employment side of life. I find work stressful, and I need at least 3-4 days off in the week to "recharge". Only thing is, is you can't earn much money by doing that, unless you're in a high-paid job, which is hard for me to find. Right now I work part-time, but I'm afraid that there might come a time where I have to work full-time to make ends meet.
People don't understand my work anxieties, they just say "oh nobody wants to work full-time but they have no choice". But actually that's not true for everybody. I know people with no big plans for the future and can afford to earn a part-time wage and have money to themselves, but still work full-time. So there are people who work full-time but aren't financially obliged to work so many hours. I suppose having a job you enjoy helps to keep you motivated and interested in the job, but I still crave for time to myself.


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16 Jun 2017, 3:22 pm

So it looks you're not just wondering about our personal perspectives on our autism, but also about the association between autism and black and white thinking vs. nuanced thinking, and whether you should continue to value your autism. I have some thoughts on all of those things.

This is pretty long but don’t worry, there’s a tl;dr (summary) at the bottom and no one will penalize you if you skim.

I have some of the negative autistic traits you talk about, like anxiety and sensory problems. But those don't dictate my entire perspective on it. There are many aspects of autism I value and consider a part of me, which even bring me joy. There are also aspects that hurt me, that I struggle with or even hate. Thing is, the exact same thing may cause both a trait I love and a trait I hate; a trait I love can contribute to the development of an autistic trait I dislike.

For an example of this, take my tendency towards fixation. I enjoy absorbing myself in my interest. Being a person who is fascinated by and passionate about certain topics is an integral part of me. I’d never want to change that. My repetitive thought patterns are a major part of how I think and understand things. At the same time, I have difficulty pulling myself away from my interests to do what I need to do and think about things to the point I get sick of it.

Furthermore, my tendency toward fixation and repetitive thoughts contributes to huge anxiety problems. Yes, my external experiences with bullying have played a major role. But I do think my underlying autistic cognition plays a big role in making my anxiety more severe and pervasive than it would otherwise be. I can’t stop thinking about things that make me anxious, the strong emotions associated with my autism make anxiety overwhelming. It has led to a pattern of avoidance and difficulty concentrating that has seeped into many aspects of my life, which slows my progress in life. It means I have extra struggles in talking to and approaching others, in getting tasks done. I hate my anxiety, and I wish I could get rid of most or all of it. I’ve been realizing more the problems anxiety has been causing me, so I understand what you mean about re-evaluating my perspective on autism, I’ve had some of that too, though I don’t think I’d ever hate every bit of it like some people do.

There are many other things, good and bad, associated with my autism. My sadness and depression is stronger, but so is my happiness (partially a result of emotional regulation difficulties combined with intense interests and lack of regulation of my emotional reactions. My stims have sometimes alienated others but they amplify my emotions and help me explore my environment (ex. Chewing things, tapping things, and so on.)

(I also wish I hadn’t dealt with bullying and misunderstandings and hostilities. But while I don’t think there will ever be a utopia where autistic people will be perfectly understood and liked and have no social problems, issues like bullying are still strongly related to the social environment. Bullying is far more prevalent in some places than others. With a lot of effort and time from people in communities, this can be improved. So fault can’t solely be put on autism.)

Along with that, I wish I could better emotionally connect with others. My distance from the social environment helped me to become my own person.

I have sensory problems that cause me pain, stress, and sometimes difficulty concentrating. I love how my fixation on detail and absorption in my sensory environment has contributed to my artwork. (Though I haven’t been able to do art as much. The absence of it has underlined how important art is to me, that it’s more important to my happiness than solving how to react in social situations and other core autism-related difficulties.)

Almost all of these things aren’t just assumptions that because I have a trait it’s an autistic trait, these traits have been shown through both research and anecdotal evidence to be associated with autism.

Also, you ask people “whether or not they consider their autism an asset on balance whether or not they consider their autism an asset on balance.”

Is it an “asset on balance?” Well, it depends on what you mean by asset.

If you mean my ability to achieve certain goals, then I suppose it has helped me pursue fulfilling interests. Though at this point in my life I don’t know whether I will go on to a successful career or live on the dole, which concerns me. While optimism is useful, I know that success is never guaranteed and saying it absolutely guaranteed if you do things right can be harmful to people.

But if you mean positive vs. negative overall, I know my opinion’s not objective; anyone’s opinion on being autistic is highly influenced by their personality, values, their perception of who they are and what autism is, not just the actual autistic traits in question. I think that’s important to remember in in discussions like this. But for me, while there’s a lot of both positive and negative aspects overall I’d say positive. It’s not just that there are many benefits, as I’ve described. It’s that I’d rather have a more difficult, possibly unhappier, life as myself than destroy huge chunks of myself to live a happier, easier life as someone else.
.....

So here's my response to:

“I've also learnt more about other issues associated with it, some of which I never personally identified with: major sensory issues, apparently inflexible behaviour, and anxiety, for example. The experience has been upsetting for me, and I'm not longer so sure whether I should value this central part of myself, though some obvious benefits do remain.“

What do the challenges of others have to do with who you are?

As one person has put it, "[The] separation of autism from autistic people is inaccurate. There is no such thing as autism. There are only autistic people.” They don't mean that autism is somehow “fake.” Rather (as she has described elsewhere) they mean that there is not a standardized brain part called “autism” that gets inserted into people’s brains and makes them autistic. “Autistic” is an abstract concept that describes a set of individuals with a whole plethora of behaviors, and a huge variety of cognitive, personality and sensory differences underlying their behaviors.

Why do I say this? Because your discovery of these challenging or negative characters is challenging your positive perspective on autism generally. But your perception of autism as it applies to all autistic people together shouldn't necessarily impact how you see yourself. The fact that a unique set of autistic characteristics exists in your brain doesn’t somehow cause anyone else to have anxiety and sensory issues. Your own “autism” belongs to you, not someone else. Even if someone else has similar autistic traits to you accompanied by anxiety and such, their own autistic neurology belongs to them, not you. Your own autism is its own thing, so discovering more about experiences of other autistic people that you don't have has changed nothing about who you are.

So you can value those parts of yourself without feeling it’s responsible for other people’s difficulties.
...

And as a ridiculously long side note, here are my thoughts on autism and black and white thinking. You said:

“For example, difficulty comprehending nuance was something I always associated with ordinary people. I had always prided myself on my ability to see the grey in situations, compared to many other people I knew (doubt the validity of this if you like, but based on my experience I'd say I have good reasons to believe it). However, I recently discovered that 'black and white thinking' was supposed to be a common characteristic of autism, whether or not it applied to me specifically.”

From what I can see, and from my own experience, autism can contribute to both black and white thinking AND to comprehension of subtle nuance. Autism has contributed to both at different times in my life. Growing up, I had the stereotypical black and white thinking. There wasn’t a middle ground. I was right, other people were wrong. I’m not entirely sure why I was like this. Probably partially to do with having difficulties processing large masses of information and taking for granted that what I read or heard was true.

I still have this in certain cases. But in later life, I have reason to think I actually have very nuanced thinking. Certain aspects of autism can also contribute to a nuanced understanding of things in some cases:

1. Fixation on interests ->more knowledge gathered -> more knowledge to base thoughtful opinions on

2. Lack of attention to social cues/ social isolation/oddities fostering nonconformity-> willingness to come to one’s own opinion rather than tow party line. Also, refusal to ignore facts willfully ignored by a certain group or society in general.

For example, in many times and places, there is strong social pressure against even considering certain points of view. Some decades past, in much of the United States, I believe even considering acceptance of gay people or homosexual behavior would make someone socially ostracized. In some cases, an autistic person may be more willing to ignore social pressure like this.

3. Detail oriented -> Stronger tendency to build opinions bottom up rather than starting from general principle & fitting ideas to it

4. Difficulty with certain kinds of abstraction-> possibly developing opinions based on a sensitive focus on details/circumstances.

Tl;dr: Your autism didn’t cause other people’s struggles with autism so I wouldn't worry about that. Personally, I value my autism despite major difficulties. Both difficulties and positive qualities can be intertwined. Different thinking styles and other things associated with autism can contribute to nuanced thinking.



razzio
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16 Jun 2017, 3:44 pm

I sometimes wish I didn’t have autism because people think I have learning disability when I don’t and when I can’t even socialise like neurotypicals.



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16 Jun 2017, 8:32 pm

GrandDukeofGrizzlydale wrote:
When I was younger my autism was something I valued a lot in myself. I didn't know a huge amount about it, but from what I had been taught it essentially seemed to me to amount to being more rational than other people. Many characteristics I had that were uncommon in my peers, I just assumed were down to my autism. As I was generally very happy with who I was, I saw my autism as a positive influence. Call this all 'arrogance' if you want: it's not as if I went around telling people this, but it was what I believed.


I only began to suspect I was autistic when I saw TV news items about autistic kids back in the 80s (I was in my 20s then), but no one ever mentioned "High Functioning" autism, so I wasn't sure just what it was that made me so odd, but I sure recognized those stims I saw those severely autistic kids doing, 'cause I did them as well.

Over the years, people at work would occasionally ask me if I was autistic, because I made them dizzy rocking and swaying while they tried to talk to me. I only knew for certain I was different, and that I thought differently than "normal people," so much so that it often seemed to me I was the only rational person in the world, and all the "normies" were completely stupid and insane. But my secret attitude of superiority never protected me from being bullied and discriminated against by the mobs of common rabble. I might be more rational (at least from my own point of view), but it's their planet and they will chew you up and spit you out if you don't conform.

Truth be told, I've recently had a bit of a painful epiphany about that. What I realized was, that feeling that I'm the only one seeing things clearly, and the entire world around me is delusional, is in fact, the point of view of a madman. Oh, don't get me wrong, I still feel that way - I've just had to come to terms with the fact that that is what all insane people believe. I am looking at the world through Funhouse Mirror Glasses, and my reactions only seem rational to me because I am not seeing things as they really are.

In any case, I have mixed feelings about my autism. On one hand, it has formed the very fabric of my personality throughout my entire life - if I could take a pill and be cured, I would become a totally different person, and I don't think I want to give up my "self," even if it made me more acceptable to the rest of the world. Screw them, they're the asshats who have bullied me and looked at me askance as long as I can remember. I have no desire to be one of them. On the other hand, it would be nice to be fully accepted, and feel like I had a natural place in the world. To not feel alienated and alone all the time. To make an actual human connection, and feel genuinely bonded with another person. I'd like to have that experience. I've seen it in others, and it looks so fulfilling. But it never works for me. I'm trapped inside my own head, as though I were built able to look, but never to really touch.


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17 Jun 2017, 5:41 am

I think also I hate my ASD because of a strange phobia of small children I have. I know it's not an actual Aspie symptom but it's still not normal to feel like this, so it must be something to do with ASD.
I won't hurt them or anything, but if one comes near me I panic. My chest tightens and I can't help myself from tutting and sighing and moving away, feeling angry inside. If I know someone well who has a little one, I can tolerate them, but otherwise I can't. It makes me look like a grumpy, horrible person, but I don't mean it personally. I just get really anxious.


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PatrickJane
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17 Jun 2017, 8:26 am

Well, my friends value it and i value my friends, so ...


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25 Jun 2017, 11:55 am

I value it, but first I had to understand it and myself. Then I had to value myself as a person. After all that I began to value my AS.


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fselzr
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25 Jun 2017, 8:01 pm

I value and praise it. It's the best thing that happened in my life.



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26 Jun 2017, 6:05 pm

I dislike having autism. It has done nothing but hold me back.