Eye contact

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Just wondering (this is mainly a question for NTs but if not you are still welcome to respond) how much of an impact eye contact makes for an impression of a person, I personally, am pretty much completely unable to make eye constant for some reason, as soon as I do it for any reason I just automatically break it, unless it's a staring contest with some random annoying child...

It makes a huge impact for most people.

Well, I'll try honestly answer this question from my perspective as a NT and having my son diagnosed at 2 years old with ASD and then learning everything I could about ASD (prior I knew nothing of autism other than it existed). Before my current understanding of ASD, I would obviously wonder why a person wouldn't look at me (assuming a person had no ability to make eye contact). It would alert my sixth sense kind of thing and then I would realize that person was a little different/strange, special needs or whatever - this would by no way diminish my opinion of that persons self-worth and I would have the same amount of respect for them, but at the same time know they're not like me. Depending on how much time I was expecting to spend with them, I'd be trying to figure out what was different about them.

Now that I know about ASD and have learned the different reasons why eye contact may be difficult for a person living with ASD, my perspective is more informed and the mystery of "why they're not looking at me" wouldn't be in my mind so there wouldn't be that sixth sense thing. Basically, they have ASD, and some people with it have a varying degree of trouble making eye contact - no issues with me, it's all good. But also, while understanding eye contact, I find myself now actively looking at N/Ts make eye contact, including myself (well, thinking about how I make eye contact ) - you'd be surprised just how variable eye contact is within the N/T population and now I seem to be more figuring out eye contact from the subconscious N/T perspective. This is probably because my son still isn't making eye contact 99.9% of the time, but every now and then he will (I have a pretty good idea as to why but it took 3 years to understand his issues).

As for the above, it's a safe assumption that most people know nothing about ASD/eye contact issues so you can pretty much bet their impression would be focused on - hmm...what's different with him/her - that's not necessarily a negative feeling by N/Ts towards people with ASD.

Why does this sixth sense thing/curiosity happen? IMO, I think it's just the human mind at work. Our minds are naturally curious about the unknown, once our minds deem something is exactly that, our minds start to try to answer the questions that we imagine in our heads. We're human, that's just what we do. For example: science (so many unknowns), scientists (so many theories) / God (unknown), religions (answer) / people with ASD (unknown to N/Ts), N/Ts response (what's up/different/wrong with them).

You can't get upset about the above, it's probably the evolutionary reason why we're all not still swinging in the trees...

I also wonder if NTs can tell if, when I am looking at them, that I am looking at their mouth (which is moving) and not their eyes. It's almost as if my eyes are fixated on the mouth, like a magnet.

This is how it was explained to me: It shows sincerity, and the caliber of your character.

The whole character thing is, apparently, some kind of pack-animal-like mentality where you're judged based on a Confident to Submissive scale. I've found that people who find it imperative that you make consistent appropriate eye contact are almost always "Dog People", which is incredibly interesting considering that it's canine behavior to analyze and respond based on sustained eye contact.

I don't really get WHY it's so important. I get the How and What, but not really the Why. There are multiple avenues available to take the measure of a person aside from eye contact. But it's their thing, I guess, it's just how they do it. So I do my best to make eye contact, but it's almost never genuinely full contact. I usually focus super intensely on their eyelashes or the color of their iris, that or I "zone out" in the direction of their eyes. I'm kind of proud, actually, of how I was able to adapt well enough that my imitation of eye contact is seen as true eye contact.
I can only look my Husband straight in the eyes. He's the only person I feel comfortable and safe around. But his eyes are so pretty it's hard not to stare at them.

Something I actually tried once.

First, when talking to someone, I looked at her mouth and asked if she thought I was making eye contact. The answer was yes.

Then, uncomfortable though it was, I actually looked straight into her eyes, and the reaction was instant. She immediately told me that this was better eye contact.

So, I'd say NTs generally won't notice if you're looking at their mouth, or their eyes. But if you switch between them, they will definitely notice.

I sense that eye-to-mouth contact is quite a bit different than eye-to-eye contact.

I feel totally comfortable with eye-to-mouth contact. In fact, I noticed that -- when watching TV or the movies -- my gaze automatically focuses on the mouth. I can look at the eyes, but my "nature" (for lack of a better word) is to look first at the mouth. And, always return to the mouth. I actually didn't realize this until I was diagnosed.

Now, I do occasionally look into another's eyes. And, for me, I find it quite uncomfortable when the eyes lock. It's almost like my entire mind shuts off. Which is why whenever my eyes lock with another person's (even for a second), I immediately avert my eyes.

A fair bit for me (and I was diagnosed as an aspie?) I won't take it as a sign of disrespect/rudeness but It's a lot easier to converse with someone who is making eye contact.

The strange thing is someone told me when I was a teenager that I wasn't making proper eye contact (this is also when I learned of my diagnosis, which apparently everyone else knew already and thought I also knew of), and after that I was able to "pick it up" (as well as lip-reading, reading facial expression, and determining who a person is talking to / looking at).

Yes, that is actually because you focus all/most of your attention on the person you are making eye contact with, and their attention will also be focused on you. In this state you can follow the non-verbal cues. I actually find it more relaxing/comfortable nowadays.

The explanation I've heard is that It's cultural (social norm which varies depending on cultural background), for example in some indigenous (Australian) cultures it's considered respectful to look down while speaking to someone. This "character determination by eye contact" thing seems to be a particularly strong "western" trait (by observation, although I'd love to find a multi-national survey on first impressions).

For the average person looking into someones eyes becomes harder if they are lying or hiding something, therefor when someone doesn't look them in their eyes they instinctively consider them shifty. Also not looking can be taken for not listening/paying attention/lack of interest but looking roughly in the area does help with this a lot and a bit of nodding, and if possible some verbal acknowledgement (I say yep a lot) if someone is giving me instruction.

While eye contact is important the average person doesn't do a lot of it. They don't keep their eyes fixed on the other persons eyes. I look at a persons eyes, not into, just at, blink, look away a little, back for a second, blink, and away. I now know this is not normal but it can't be that far off because nobody had a clue I was different. I think you should only do what you're able and not get too stuck on it as essential as anxiety over it would be more likely to make it worse. Maybe practice with family or close friends, if you want to.

With people I know reasonably well, I put much less effort into trying to maintain eye-contact since I found out my diagnosis. Aside from being uncomfortable, it takes too much attention for me to apply what I've learned about it over the years, and if I get engrossed in listening to someone, my gaze inevitably drifts off into space because I can parse their words better when I focus on just listening, or I watch their mouth if the environment is noisy. I don't see the point in forcing it when doing so actually makes me less engaged in the conversation (likewise for body language). If someone points out that I'm not doing it, I just ask them which they would prefer - to be listened to, or to be the audience for a shoddy mime act.

My experience so far is that my relationships with other people haven't suffered at all; if anything they have got better because I'm picking up more nuances of what people are telling me, and for them, my oddness now has an explanation where before they were having to invent their own.

I think this is a very good point. It seems to me that there is much more to eye contact than just looking for a certain amount of time - there are lot of nuances to exactly when in a sentence is the best time to look, what expression is on your face at the time, whether the look matched voice tone, whether to wait for the other person to look back etc. So most people are using eye contact to convey much more than just "I'm paying attention."

When eye contact is consciously mimicked, I think we'll often miss these subtle parts of it. The other person will naturally perceive, mostly sub-consciously, "messages" from the eye contact when we're not actually using it to send messages, and we have no idea what meaning our eye contact is conveying. Worse still, the other person won't be able to identify exactly what it is that's odd, so will believe their own internal explanation for it, and won't point out to us that it's affecting the interaction in ways that we're unaware of.

I think this is why dropping the pretence seems to be working quite well for me (albeit only with people I know well). My behaviour in conversation probably seems more consistent now, and there's a known explanation for it, rather than my lousy attempts at doing it placing me in the "uncanny valley" where it just confuses their interpretation of what I'm saying.

I suppose that makes sense, socially speaking. I guess it's all in the development of cultural cues? It still seems arbitrary to me. I saw someone else mentioned sincerity/honesty. I suppose, to an NT that isn't very familiar with psychology, that would make sense. But for me it's just not a strong enough indicator. I've known plenty of people that can maintain flawless eye contact while lying so hard it's amazing.

'NT's not familiar with psychology' are prob about 95%+ of the population.

That gave me a good belly laugh.