Innocence, honesty and Aspergers
OutsideView
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I'm not much of a follower of other people's rules (unless they give me a good reason) but I don't drink, do drugs, cheat or lie (other than things like "yes I like this present" or "I'm feeling fine" and even that's hard). Even though I believe it's someone else's decision if they want to take drugs I do get really funny about it and find it hard to be around them.
What is the "Golden Rule"? I've often heard people mention it but never known.
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Dear_one
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What is the "Golden Rule"? I've often heard people mention it but never known.
Every culture has their own wording for it, but the first one I heard was "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." It kept me out of trouble for decades, but then I found out that others have different emotional needs, less based on facts.
@Marybird: I think you're right. It explains the gullibility.
@Bunnyb:
I feel EXACTLY the same way! I had this kind of fight soooo many times! By the way, do you remember the name of the autistic psychologist?
@outsideview: I tend to hate these people for doing those things. It's more about the atmosphere and their inner innocence. For me, the atmosphere of nightclubs, drugs, and so on is so bad that I judge them for having no problem to stay in this very sick and dark atmosphere.
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Sorry for my bad English, I live in Paris and English is not my native language.
When I was a teenager, I refused to drink. I knew alcohol is a drug, and drugs are bad for you. Therefore, logically, why would I drink something that would harm me? It didn't make any sense to me. I didn't want to be ill, so I wasn't going to drink. Ever. I couldn't understand why nobody else could see this. It made perfect logical sense to me. I was so baffled why anybody ever touched the stuff. I knew people said it made you more relaxed and uninhibited, but I didn't want to lose control. I thought losing control meant I would embarrass myself. The phrase "if you need alcohol to have a good time, you're a boring person" I heartily agreed with. I judged people for drinking and the thought of going to a nightclub made me feel very very uncomfortable. In my mind, I was being entirely logical, and I was right.
What I was actually doing was judging something I had never experienced and ignoring the fact that other people's opinions were way more valid than my own in this area. Because I was terrified of embarrassing myself (whilst drunk), of harming my body and because I didn't feel like I belonged to the adult world. I felt that so strongly that I rejected anything that wasn't part of the child world, including employment. At school, we would be asked at intervals what we wanted to do when we grew up, and I point blank refused to even think about it. It terrified me but because there wasn't a logical explanation as to why I felt this way (didn't know I had Aspergers yet), I assumed it was just that there wasn't a job I wanted to do, and also that I wasn't capable of one. Every other kid I came across was excited to get older each year and couldn't wait to be adults so they could do things their way. I was the complete opposite, I dreaded getting older and always wished I was several years younger. I drew a blank every time I tried to imagine myself as an adult.
Eventually, I got gently persuaded by my friends to drink in pubs, then my friend got me drinking cocktails and dancing in the hotel on holiday and then for her 21st birthday she begged me to come to a nightclub with her (I was almost 21 by this point too), I agreed a bit reluctantly and was shocked to find out that actually, this was the best thing I'd ever done in my entire life. I had never had so much fun. I had never felt happier or less anxious either. It was like heaven. I got to go a few more times wit her after that before we stopped being friends. Now I am a party girl (at heart. I don't have any friends to go party with unfortunately). If you'd told me at seventeen that in seven years time, my favourite thing in the world to do would be to get drunk and dance all night in a club, there's no way in hell I would have believed you. I still don't have a job although I would like one. I still feel incapable of the interview process though.
I think a reluctance to accept adult things is a lot to do with being an Aspie, it's the fear of change and the unknown, a lack of knowledge is a lack of control. So you tell yourself these things are bad, because it gives you what you think is a more acceptable excuse to avoid them. Admitting you're terrified of them, although not pathetic, can seem so, especially when everyone around you has no problem.
I've been told I'm innocent and I have a tendency to tell people on the internet anything and everything about myself, where I feel most people would probably shy away (you may have noticed...) I'm not sure why that is. I think I just like the idea of everybody being honest.
Thanks for reading til the end!
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Aspergers
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CockneyRebel
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I'm very honest with a lot of people and I live in an innocent world of pea-like characters. There are times that I post here on WP with honest opinions and I look back a couple of days later and think that I should have been more of a Sweet Pea.
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The Family Enigma
@Bunnyb:
I feel EXACTLY the same way! I had this kind of fight soooo many times! By the way, do you remember the name of the autistic psychologist?
@outsideview: I tend to hate these people for doing those things. It's more about the atmosphere and their inner innocence. For me, the atmosphere of nightclubs, drugs, and so on is so bad that I judge them for having no problem to stay in this very sick and dark atmosphere.
His name is Christian A Stewart-Ferrer and this is the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpitsA- ... e=youtu.be
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I have a piece of paper that says ASD Level 2 so it must be true.
To be honest and sincere and avoid things like that is excellent. It’s my Fave thing about Asperger’s.
You are not so tempted to do those things as others because your neurology is not suited to it.
Everything appealing about that lifestyle will also be potentially MUCH more detrimental to Aspies/autistic pol, so ir’s good we tend to avoid it.
Life lesson I learned is don’t assume other ppl will understand you, and you cannot understand other ppl. And also don’t be so innocent and naive that u are Manipulated.
Ask your sisters or friend for a second opinion if you are confused so U dont get taken advantage of.
Otherwise I think this is a positive thing about Autism and Aspergers.
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First things first, I apologize for my bad English.
I am a 27 years old male from Paris, France. I have been diagnosed with Aspergers.
I always felt different. I was a very shy kid, afraid to go to nursery school.
I was born in a very strict family, my mother is French literature teacher and my father is very traditional (Judaism).
Nowadays, I still feel my (strong) difference, I am still afraid of a lot of things. I may appear as a normal guy, but I am afraid of certain things that I found bad. For example, smoking, going to nightclubs, to casinos, driving, taking drugs. I really don't understand how people can do these things, these things make you look so not innocent. When I see my friends smoking or driving I am shocked!
I was a very good kid from a very strict family so you may understand why I feel that way. But my two little sisters were raised in the same family and they smoke, drive, love nightclubs... We are 3 in the family and I am the only one with Aspergers, my sisters have very high IQ (above 150 at WAIS). They were not as good as I was at school, they were not as innocent and honest as I am. I was a very good student because I was very good and obedient kid from a very strict and traditional/puritan family. But my sisters were raised the same way by the same parents.
It's not even regarding those things, it's also the way they think. They are calculating, manipulating persons whereas I am really honest and gullible. It's like even the way they think is less innocent. I am unable to lie, to cheat (even to break with my girlfriend since I am too much attached to her), to manipulate. I am a straight-forward person.
My question is: why am I so honest and innocent and not my sisters? Do you think it's related to Aspergers? Do you feel the way I do regarding the things I listed?
Thanks.
Ps: my topic is related to these two topics: "Why Do People Equate Autism With Innocence?" and "Aspergers And Innocence, Naivete, Gullibility, Etc".
Pps: I was not diagnosed with ADHD but I think I have this disorder. Maybe that's why I am less calculating and manipulating.
I don't smoke, never done drugs in my life, and I've never been to a nightclub. In the past, I have been extremely naive and gullible and I still believe in "doing the right thing". What you describe (which I misunderstood in myself as being very religious) is absolutely related to being autistic. That being said, you're a smart guy with a lot of brain power and if you want to, you can use the "wrong" part of your brain (the linear side) to become less gullible and naive if you want to. If you are happy the way you are, that's cool too.
When I was your age, I was pretty much like you describe yourself. Now that I'm 40, I find it ironic that I can take small bits of conversation and draw the underlying meaning better than probably most NTs can. I can read body language pretty well, and usually understand the underlying reason why that person is exhibiting that body language. An untalented football player would work hard every day from an extremely young age and could perhaps become a fairly good college football player. That's the way autism is. You work over and over, constantly analyzing behaviors, conversations, body language, etc. and you make mistakes a long the way and get taken advantage of, but you look back and you learn from it. One day you wake up, and you are a pretty darn street smart guy who can understand the more subtle social events that take place in front of you.
Just a little caveat. I find that when a social situation is extremely subtle, or there are a group of people having multi-tiered conversations with each other (like, there are three conversations going on at the same time amongst a group of people in which they switch topics on the fly), I am completely lost while the NTs in the conversation have absolutely no problem following the discussion. The linear mind, which was not designed to be used for social interactions, can only cut through so many layers of subtlety and complexity.
When I was young I was a very innocent and sheltered person. My family was very religious and it was no sex before marriage, no drugs, no drinking etc etc. I learnt swear words from friends, esp playing football, and I worked out about sex by googling swear words, because I wanted to know what they meant. Oops lol.
I still trust people I shouldn't and I am a terrible judge of character. Its got me into some very bad situations - being a female who can't judge character can go very very wrong. My boyfriend is frankly scared of me going out and about sometimes incase I trust someone I shouldn't. I am much better than I used to be, people used to make jokes about me and be rather nasty when I was in school, but I didn't understand why, which really upset me. I had friends who would later take advantage out of me and I have always taken things very literally so if someone tries to make subtle suggestions it goes completely over my head (apparently my boyfriend tried to ask me out multiple times before we finally got together, I just didn't notice ahha).
People have told me lies before that I totally believed and its taken until someone else has corrected me to figure it out, which can be very embarrassing. I just expect people to be telling the truth, because lets be honest, whats the benefit of saying anything else. I mean... its just silly.
I was very similar with the no drinking, no drugs and no smoking stuff, but now I have done all of the above (in more adventurous moments) and it was fun in the right place, with people who are trust worthy. I think if we get taught rules us Aspies often stick to them, cause we kinda like rules ahah, helps us work out what to do, and how to do the right thing. It can be hard to work out what moderation is as an Aspie because everything is black and white, but you can kinda figure it out with time.
Anyway, if you don't want to do any of them don't! Your not honestly missing out on much, and though it can be great fun, there are lots of other things in the world that are also fun!
Well, I don't get drunk or do drugs because I think it's kind of stupid, and the risks simply outweigh the rewards.
As for trusting others? Since I don't have a good judge of character, I tend to take things very slowly. Building trust with someone involves careful observation of that person's behaviour, both with me and with others. Gaining my trust will usually take at least several weeks (and can easily take months) but once you get it, it's usually there for life.
When it comes to honesty, I know that it's been said that honesty's the best policy, but that doesn't mean that I don't tell lies when I think that being dishonest will get me ahead in the long run. It's not something I do on a regular basis, but that's not to say that I won't tell a lie -- and I'm pretty good at it when necessary.
Far more common than an outright lie, though, is that I will not tell the entire truth. Instead, I'll tell only what I think I have to tell, and try to fabricate the remainder in such a way that best accomplishes my goals.
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The Colourblind Country Chemist & Tropical Tracker
Myers-Briggs personality: The Commander
Asperger's Quiz: 79/111, both neurodiverse and neurotypical traits present. AQ score: 23 Raads-r score: here
ScarletIbis
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Wait, why is driving on the list of non-innocent activities? I can understand everything else, but driving? Is that a France thing?
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Please understand that everything I write should be read with a grain of salt because I frequently adjust my views based on new information (just read a description of INTP that should explain better than I)
ScarletIbis
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Obviously
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Diagnosed: High Functioning ASD 2013
Misdiagnosed (extremely likely): Bipolar II 2012
Feel free to message me if you want
Please understand that everything I write should be read with a grain of salt because I frequently adjust my views based on new information (just read a description of INTP that should explain better than I)
Dear_one
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Connections: I once witnessed a minor traffic accident, and gave my name as a witness. Later, I showed up in court. I have since learned that this was unusually honest. That's how I became friends with a night club owner, but I never went there when it was open. It was still a very good eye-opener for me.