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salowevision
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09 Oct 2018, 2:30 pm

I've read and heard multiple perspectives on this but my take on the relationship between aspergers and masculinity is that they are inversely correlated in males. Think about every male aspie you've ever met, seen, heard of, etc. My experience; they've all been mild mannered, introverted and often have distinctly feminine physical characteristics. Plus with all the anxiety disorders associated with the autism spectrum; the idea of someone having both aspergers and high testosterone is completely laughable.

I was reading some studies and articles regarding ASD and hormone profile and I happened upon a forum where someone claimed to have aspergers and went into detail of his profound masculinity; It reminded me of one of those tweens who comment on youtube claiming to be a navy seal er something :lol:

Try not to take offense to this; I think the most important part of living with a disorder is to understand and accept it.

What's your take? Have you met any aspies who are also burly men?



Noca
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09 Oct 2018, 2:37 pm

I'm neither masculine or feminine, somewhere inbetween. I have been on testosterone replacement in the past and have never had any difference in terms of my autism. My current T levels are around 340 ng/dL, quite a bit below normal for being 32 yrs old, but still in the healthy range.



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09 Oct 2018, 2:42 pm

I have no idea what my T level is but I would not be surprised if it's low.

I'm also not stereotypically masculine (hate sports, don't "drink beer with the guys", was not a jock, I don't have a hairy body, etc) but I'm not feminine (I don't walk or gesture in a feminine way, I have a deep voice, I'm fairly muscular and fairly broad shouldered).



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09 Oct 2018, 3:02 pm

Actually, yes I have. Homeland Security agent, body builder. I think he worked out twice a day to boost his pheromone field and it worked. He couldn't really talk to women, so he just put the moves on them (all the time and very successfully.) Some believe exercise & active sex life can build T. Who knows? It seemed to work for him. But with all that going on, I doubt he ever had much time or inclination to thoughtfully post to a social forum, and I think sex was the only intimacy he could manage without difficulty. Verbally he was, well... you know. So in the end, well, he was probably also fairly psychologically isolated.


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salowevision
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09 Oct 2018, 3:14 pm

KathyKitty wrote:
Actually, yes I have. Homeland Security agent, body builder. I think he worked out twice a day to boost his pheromone field and it worked. He couldn't really talk to women, so he just put the moves on them (all the time and very successfully.) Some believe exercise & active sex life can build T. Who knows? It seemed to work for him. But with all that going on, I doubt he ever had much time or inclination to thoughtfully post to a social forum, and I think sex was the only intimacy he could manage without difficulty. Verbally he was, well... you know. So in the end, well, he was probably also fairly psychologically isolated.


That's the thing though; you can manipulate your hormones to a certain extent through lifestyle, exercise, diet, etc. but it only goes so far without a direct chemical intervention. I'd be super curious to see a picture of this guy but I realize that's not appropriate lol

Like I've always been into diet and exercise and it definitely helps me function better and feel more masculine/confident but no matter how hard I work to suppress them, the anxiety and other feminine traits will always be there.



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09 Oct 2018, 3:25 pm

I thought there was supposed to be a link between EXCESSIVE testosterone and autism. This would make sense in that the traits ordinarily observed in Aspies are generally considered masculine ones - collecting, organising, categorising; ruthless rationality. There's also Baron Cohen's Extreme Male Brain hypothesis.



salowevision
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09 Oct 2018, 3:36 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
I thought there was supposed to be a link between EXCESSIVE testosterone and autism. This would make sense in that the traits ordinarily observed in Aspies are generally considered masculine ones - collecting, organising, categorising; ruthless rationality. There's also Baron Cohen's Extreme Male Brain hypothesis.


Yea that's the study I find deeply flawed; and frankly the only one that correlates autism with testosterone. I think they made that correlation because in those days; autism was mostly found in boys. We've since discovered that not to be the case due to females presenting differently.

I don't see how the traits you listed would be masculine at all; more like obsessive ones. Which goes directly back to anxiety.

I read a study that found low T in aspie males and high T in aspie females. Which also lines up with my experience; and partly explains why women present differently.



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09 Oct 2018, 3:41 pm

salowevision wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
I thought there was supposed to be a link between EXCESSIVE testosterone and autism. This would make sense in that the traits ordinarily observed in Aspies are generally considered masculine ones - collecting, organising, categorising; ruthless rationality. There's also Baron Cohen's Extreme Male Brain hypothesis.


Yea that's the study I find deeply flawed; and frankly the only one that correlates autism with testosterone. I think they made that correlation because in those days; autism was mostly found in boys. We've since discovered that not to be the case due to females presenting differently.

I don't see how the traits you listed would be masculine at all; more like obsessive ones. Which goes directly back to anxiety.

I read a study that found low T in aspie males and high T in aspie females. Which also lines up with my experience; and partly explains why women present differently.


You're probably right. I do think lately there has arrived a kind of craze in female diagnosis, however, which I can only conclude is driven by the PC nonsense engulfing us at the moment.



salowevision
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09 Oct 2018, 3:43 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
You're probably right. I do think lately there has arrived a kind of craze in female diagnosis, however, which I can only conclude is driven by the PC nonsense engulfing us at the moment.


Absolutely... seems like they're always looking for new ways to be a victim... but I digress...



KathyKitty
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09 Oct 2018, 3:49 pm

salowevision wrote:
KathyKitty wrote:
Actually, yes I have. Homeland Security agent, body builder. I think he worked out twice a day to boost his pheromone field and it worked. He couldn't really talk to women, so he just put the moves on them (all the time and very successfully.) Some believe exercise & active sex life can build T. Who knows? It seemed to work for him. But with all that going on, I doubt he ever had much time or inclination to thoughtfully post to a social forum, and I think sex was the only intimacy he could manage without difficulty. Verbally he was, well... you know. So in the end, well, he was probably also fairly psychologically isolated.


That's the thing though; you can manipulate your hormones to a certain extent through lifestyle, exercise, diet, etc. but it only goes so far without a direct chemical intervention. I'd be super curious to see a picture of this guy but I realize that's not appropriate lol

Like I've always been into diet and exercise and it definitely helps me function better and feel more masculine/confident but no matter how hard I work to suppress them, the anxiety and other feminine traits will always be there.


He was what some might call "too muscular," but sorry, I don't have a photo. I'm of the belief that what we call feminine and masculine traits are cultural add-ons that wouldn't apply to those with big-picture brains. A better physical gauge of T might be baldness. Maybe you are noticing you are more brain-dominant than body-dominant or something like that. But not being an insensitive brute or muscular jock or even a little domineering doesn't mean you're not masculine, IMO.


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salowevision
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09 Oct 2018, 5:21 pm

KathyKitty wrote:
He was what some might call "too muscular," but sorry, I don't have a photo. I'm of the belief that what we call feminine and masculine traits are cultural add-ons that wouldn't apply to those with big-picture brains. A better physical gauge of T might be baldness. Maybe you are noticing you are more brain-dominant than body-dominant or something like that. But not being an insensitive brute or muscular jock or even a little domineering doesn't mean you're not masculine, IMO.


I appreciate that; but I tend to look at things from a more scientific perspective. There are certain behaviors, tendencies and physical traits that are directly correlated with male and female biology respectively. I definitely possess an obscure blend of both.



quite an extreme
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09 Oct 2018, 7:15 pm

salowevision wrote:
What's your take? Have you met any aspies who are also burly men?

Yes.



Last edited by quite an extreme on 09 Oct 2018, 7:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

cberg
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09 Oct 2018, 7:16 pm

None of your business.

Why would you require a statistic to tell you your identity anyway?


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09 Oct 2018, 8:13 pm

Both of the other diagnosed "aspies" that I know IRL are far more typically masculine than I am, one a Rugby player and sports coach (I wouldn't have identified either of them as autistic before they revealed it following my disclosure.)

Prometheus18 wrote:
I do think lately there has arrived a kind of craze in female diagnosis

You mean like how there was a "craze" for male "aspie" diagnosis that started for some bizarre reason around the late 1980's? :wink:

My Mum has many traits which are very similar to my own autistic traits, most of which I didn't discover until she helped with my diagnostic assessment, and she has done anything but present herself as a "victim" at any point in her life that I know of. My own autistic behaviours are closer to the stereotypical female presentation of Asperger's (e.g. greater tendency to mask and to fake interest in gossip), and I have been mistaken for gay many times; but I have never been in any doubt about my masculinity or heterosexuality, even though I've never matched societal stereotypes of "manhood" very well.


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10 Oct 2018, 12:40 am

Interesting. I too am androgynous, but in the opposite direction, more masculine than a lot of other females.

I'm small, but I have large feet and tend to have much more muscle definition than other women. Since high school I've had a 6-pack even though I never go to a gym. The muscles on my back and forearms are also really defined for some reason, with veins popping on the later.

Anyway, when my hair is short and I dress the way I feel most comfortable (loose fitting cotton clothing), I get mistaken for a teenage boy about 40% of the time, despite my bosoms and high voice. Someone yelled a trans-phobic slur at me once when I was wearing a summer dress. I am assuming they thought I was a trans-woman (m to f) ??? Anyway, all of the trans-women I know have way better style than I do, so I'll take it as a compliment.



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10 Oct 2018, 12:43 am

salowevision wrote:
I've read and heard multiple perspectives on this but my take on the relationship between aspergers and masculinity is that they are inversely correlated in males. Think about every male aspie you've ever met, seen, heard of, etc. My experience; they've all been mild mannered, introverted and often have distinctly feminine physical characteristics. Plus with all the anxiety disorders associated with the autism spectrum; the idea of someone having both aspergers and high testosterone is completely laughable.

I was reading some studies and articles regarding ASD and hormone profile and I happened upon a forum where someone claimed to have aspergers and went into detail of his profound masculinity; It reminded me of one of those tweens who comment on youtube claiming to be a navy seal er something :lol:

Try not to take offense to this; I think the most important part of living with a disorder is to understand and accept it.

What's your take? Have you met any aspies who are also burly men?

Yes, I have.
Six foot four and built like Gerard Butler.


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