First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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Hi to everyone... I have a question. Is it possible to be autistic without social problems?

No.

It is possible for some autistics to learn enough social skills and coping mechanisms enough to APPEAR typical or close to typical. But usually it is tiring and the constant effort to mask or pretend to be normal can cause over time burnout and other mental illnesses such as depression and anxiety.

Oh my if someone held my hands I would freak out! Just thinking about it freaks me out. Perhaps trying to put the back of your hand up against the back of their's could cause a gentle focus away from the need may work. I would pull out my hair and play with my ears. No one told me not to. Eventually I didn't want the bald spot so I chose to just focus on my ears.

Hello, Im wondering what would it take in social experience and training to achieve habits of finding (non-verbal cues, read people intentions, know what someone wants, etc (understand ppl in short ) )like a normal person and then to the socially gifted level?
As for me I am not heavy on the spectrum, I don't really got quirks that would be noticed as unusuall but I am as hell of one clueless or uncertain in the non-verbal cues.

But I really want to develop these traits to the full extents. Im ready to fail,put myself into akward situations ,invest alot of time on reading, painfully changing habits.

If you're wondering why I put alot of importance into this is because I know its essential for success. Talents only get you so far, If you can't deal with people. People will deal with you and always give you the shorter stick. I want to be in control and not be controlled in life. Relationships, career, anything really. I need to be in control meaning I can make my own judgements and decisions.

Is this way of thinking a wet dream for people like us? Or its worth fighting for it?

There are ways to learn to mimic NT social behavior, such as books and classes on etiquette, body language, and sales techniques. However, trying to do everything correctly all the time is exhausting for people on the spectrum. Masking themselves for a lifetime causes burnout and feelings of not knowing who they really are. There are also some comorbid features of autism that preclude gifted-level socializing; for instance, "face blindness" can make it impossible to recognize people and react accordingly, or painful eye contact makes it hard to monitor the expressions others are making in a conversation. You may think you don't have quirks, but lack of self-awareness is a classic hallmark of autism (ask someone who knows you well what your quirks are and you may be surprised.)

If you would like to make a beginning on the study of NT social behavior, I can suggest these three: _Miss Manners' Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior_, _What Every Body Is Saying: An Ex-FBI Agent’s Guide to Speed-Reading People_, and the classic _How to Win Friends and Influence People_. It can be overwhelming when you come to understand all the layers and intricacies of NT behavior which come naturally to them, which can only be done with great conscious effort by autistics. Try not to let it make you self-conscious.

All those things you are talking about. Aren't they simply habits we have. Not look straight on people, our quirks and so on. I'm currently reading this book "The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business by Charles Duhigg" and It explains like where unconscious behaviours or actions come from and how to play with them. I don't understand deeply what we have different between "normal" and on the spectrum. But I sure do know we lack the ability to notice social behaviours from scratch and having the proper reactions to it. But I do notice some cues after learning them theoretically. So what would it stop us to slowly develop it as a habit (meaning you don't need to be self-conscious about them the same way you are not self-conscious any skills after being experienced in it.). We obviously do develop habits, so then why socializing better isn't one of them? Are you saying that even if I slowly develop it as a habit, I will still get that overthinking pressure, anxiety, etc?

We can apply learned social skills and make them into habits, yes. Social situations are constantly novel and surprising, though, and will always require a higher level of conscious engagement than NTs have to expend. There have been diagnosed autistic actors, singers, community organizers, etc. who use their special interest in an area like theater, music, or justice to become successful in a highly social profession. There are also blind marksmen, and legless marathon runners. Some people decide to work with what they've got, and some people struggle against what they haven't got--it's a matter of personal temperament. Please don't think I am discouraging you from the study of human behavior! Far from it. Just offering some realism on the possible outcomes of aiming for NT-level mastery.

[/quote] So what would it stop us to slowly develop it as a habit (meaning you don't need to be self-conscious about them the same way you are not self-conscious any skills after being experienced in it.). We obviously do develop habits, so then why socializing better isn't one of them? Are you saying that even if I slowly develop it as a habit, I will still get that overthinking pressure, anxiety, etc?[/quote]

I was 39 before being diagnosed so I learned the social skills I have through intellect without realizing thats not how most people do it. Many of these learned social behaviors are habits now and happen subconsciously; however, the overthinking and anxiety are still everpresent. That is part of what led me to seek a diagnosis. In my experience I have learned social skills enough to “pass” at work well enough and I seem mostly normal to those who know me best but there of few of those people because close relationships are so difficult.

I never considered i was an aspie until the last year or so and i used to and still do jump on random things, balance on anything, try to avoid cracks in the road. I'm a 32 years old woman and still love to do this and explore.

I’m Aspie (which I will go to my grave swearing is distinct from Autism) and I can tell you they don’t notice. NTs notice what they think is mild Aspie stuff but they are really only noticing the moderate cases. NTs still argue with me all the time over whether or not I have it and accuse me of lying to try to get away with “not having consequences” to my meltdowns. The world always wants to punish me when I’m hurting my worst already. I even had a teacher who works with Aspie kids swear I was wrong. I’m not wrong, I’m Aspie, and even when I think it’s obvious people usually just assume I’m NT and just a b***h.

Yes you will... if you are around NTs. They dominate society. Recent brain scans studies have shown that Autistic, Aspie, and NT brains are each physiologically different, with Autie and Aspie being different but similar to each other. No matter how hard you train your mind, it will still be physically and functionally different than an NTs. As long as they dominate culture and society it will be stressful try to fit it. NTs speak and demand use of a social language that only their brain physiology can authentically produce. We will forever be strangers in a foreign land with NTs, and no matter how much we learn their language, we will never shed our Aspie/Autie accent (<—this is an analogy, for those of us that have a hard time with phrasing that isn’t totally direct, it means that that Aspie traits equate to an accent in a foreigner, not that we have actual accents). Basically you can’t train your DNA and brain shape to be like an NT, you can only hone your acting skills and then be acting all the time (unless the pressure gets too much and you break character to have a meltdown).

It doesn’t always work that way. I’ve been with people who flat out tell me if it’s Aspergers they are leaving, refuse to accept it, and then become abusive because they think they can punish the “bad” behavior (meltdowns) out of me. I only melt down when I’m overwhelmed with raw deep negative emotions anyway, so then I’m hurt by something = I get punished for bringing it up and then they get a pass because my meltdown trumps anything bad they did in their minds and the problem is to them that I just need to act “normal”. NTs tend to be pretty selfish and cruel, maybe not all, and that’s not an ethical judgement, it’s a comparative one. It’s the way they are wired and they can’t help it anymore than we can (even though to me EVERYTHING wrong with the world comes from NT thought patterns and if there were no NTs there would probably not be any such thing as “evil”) Sorry, it’s not coming out right, but everything truly cruel or evil I’ve ever encountered personally has been from an NT, so it really seems like evil is an NT invention to me. (Not that all NTs suck, it’s just that the thought patterns and actions typically associated with cruelty and evil are NOT part of how the Aspie/Autie brain works... those are distinctly neorotypical patterns)

So good luck, but chances are there’s no good time and it won’t help anything anyway. Girls are more understanding about stuff like this sometimes, but in my experience if you’re an Aspie woman most men will use that as an excuse to try to dominate and subdue you.

I am an NT with ADD if there is such a thing.
I am extremely empathetic and tend to be able to like most people. To an NT "painting pictures" with words is a sign of intelligence, and metaphorical speech, innuendo and elaboration add depth and interest to the conversation for us.

Creative people such as myself find language an intimate tool that is used skillfully to illustrate our personna,to give another person access to the most intimate depths of ourselves and also as a sort of sales pitch I suppose, perhaps subconsciously seeking love and attention. Also it is difficult for NT's to be direct because it makes them vulnerable.

That's why autistics are such easy prey for the bullies. All bullies are cowards who empower themselves by belittling anyone who appears vulnerable.

Language skills promote intimacy. Most of my Atypical friends have few close friends because to most people they come over as argumentative, inflexible and volatile.
I on the other hand cherish the innocent, direct honesty that is devoid of manipulation and the altruistic values that my friends/ students have. Although each is fundamentally unique, as are my NT friends also, (we all are) they all lack this sense of self -awareness, the cause and effect of what they say is completely unknown to them and they never notice if I'm bored, angry, hurt or uncomfortable emotionally.

I have learned to cut down on my embellishment of language with most, my female Aspie friend is great at expressing herself and we roll about laughing when we are together, unless she's tired, hot, cold, hungry, upset, obsessive then I need to neutralise my ego and just go with the flow till she's comfortable again. She really is a pain in the ass at these times but aren't we all sometimes?

There is something comforting about the direct honesty of people on the spectrum. How they can really only be themselves.
Though conversing with them is a bit like each of us (to use a metaphor) serving tennis balls over the net and it never gets hit back, rather they each serve their own new ball each time.
I get that and it's okay but most people interpret this as not listening, arrogance, rudeness and narcissistic or just odd. I discussed this with one of my students and we agreed that it's ok to say hey, I'm autistic, I care what you are saying but my response may be a little factual and abrupt or long winded depending on the situation.

I think I trust my friends on the spectrum and my ADD/ADHD friends more than anyone else for support if I am in trouble. We live in a world of deceit.

Thank you for this thread. Life should be about us all finding common ground and enjoying the diversity. Shalom.

Question for NTs:

Do any of you ever rock forward and back without realizing it at first when upset? Or have the desire to hit yourself in the head/bang your head on the wall? I know self-harm can be an NT thing, but it seems that head-banging in particular is not...?

I am not diagnosed, and those are probably my most "obvious" potential ASD symptoms, along with sensory issues with physical contact - I can grit my teeth and bear hugs, but they are so gross feeling. Other symptoms are more subtle...but I realize it is probably not normal to remind myself to smile "with my eyes crinkled" to show others I am happy to see them, etc.

Anyway, was wondering if there are NTs out there who rock back and forth when overwhelmed, etc. My therapist seemed to think it was an unusual behavior. She deals with NTs mostly.

Note - I am not asking for a diagnosis on the internet, just looking to see if any NTs who happen to see this have any input about their experiences.

I remember hitting myself in the head or sometimes banging my head--though I'm not hypo-sensitive, so I stopped very quickly--when I was really upset as a child. I was just so furious, so frustrated, but I couldn't figure out how to get rid of that feeling. When I see ND kids harming themselves, it breaks my heart because I assume they're feeling something similar to that.

When I'm stressed today, I sometimes find myself biting the inside of my mouth/edge of my tongue, but usually I don't rock or sway unless I'm doing a cool-down/loosen up stretch or in a rocking chair or a hammock....*happy sigh*. I find it interesting that many in our culture take a dim view of people rocking and swaying, but if you're a babe in a parent's arms, a kid on a see-saw, a couple on a dance floor, a granny knitting, or Homer sleeping off a six-pack, it's perfectly acceptable!

IMHO: at least some NTs have learned to suppress physical habits/impulses that may be leading to greater tension and stress without them even realizing it. That whole "sit up straight" mentality is, I suspect, about much more than spinal health. We all need to loosen up at least now and then and take care of those sparks within us that need tending--and if that means some rocking will help ease your troubles, I encourage you to find a way to make it work for you.

Thanks for the response, KimD.

Another question for anyone with ideas - any tips for conversations where a there is a group? I do pretty well I think with one-on-one conversations, but when there is a lively group chat going on, I struggle. I have a hard time following, especially if it's in a noisy room, and I am so bad and figuring out when it is "my turn" to say anything. I usually end up starting to talk a few times, but everyone just talks over me, and then I give up and just sit there. Any tips at all?