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blazingstar
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03 May 2019, 8:32 am

I need a lot of sleep, even nap during the day.


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Fern
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03 May 2019, 9:27 am

I was going to say that I think I tend to sleep a little less than other people... but then I realized that I slept 9 hours last night.



Muia
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03 May 2019, 9:51 am

I suffer with poor sleep quality because of chronic pain (hypermobilty causing fibro type pain) and sometimes my brain can’t seitch off which keeps me up. Ideally I’d like 8 hours plus sleep. I can do 10 hours plus at the weekends.


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jimmy m
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03 May 2019, 11:02 am

Trogluddite wrote:
^ How are you measuring your sleep phases, jimmy? I assume some kind of wearable device, which I've always been a bit skeptical of - but you seem able to correlate your readings with wakeful behaviours, which is the kind of evidence which makes me more inclined to look into it.


I use a Fitbit. There are different kinds. I have one that my wife gave to me as a Christmas present a few months ago. It has the ability to track sleep. It is called a Fitbit Versa.

It pairs with an iPad (or several other devices). So when I get up in the morning I let the watch pair with the iPad and then after a few seconds I see the total sleep in each phase plus it gives me a graph of my whole night sleep activity by phase. These are stored in the cloud so I have access to all my sleep data going back for months now.


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jimmy m
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03 May 2019, 11:13 am

srd wrote:

It's been a while since my sleep study, but here's what came from it showing how I slept that night there:

Sleep Stage - Minutes - Percent - Normal percent
--------------------------------------------------
1 - 11.5 - 2.3% - 2-5%
2 - 373.5 - 73.8% - 46-65%
3 - 12.0 - 2.4% - 2-10%
4 - 91.0 - 18% - 0-5%
REM - 18 - 3.6% - 12-20%

Total time in bed was 593 minutes and total sleep time was 506 minutes


So looking at this your deep sleep is Sleep Stage 3 & 4. You have 103 minutes of deep sleep. That looks pretty good. Your body is repairing the physical damage and normalizing the stress energy from your awake day.

But your REM sleep of 18 minutes is way, way too low. It means that mentally you are not allowing enough time for your memory to be consolidated for permanent storage and that any lessons learned during the day are not being recorded. It is like a data buffer that overflows. The data is lost.


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Trogluddite
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03 May 2019, 5:40 pm

^ That fits some hunches I have about myself. I've long felt that some of my memory problems, particularly with autobiographic memory, are not so much problems of recall, but of recording. The memories I do have include very little sense or time, place, or emotional content, and seem very prone to cross-talk between unrelated events. The only medication that ever seemed to benefit my sleep was Mirtazapine (an atypical anti-depressant), on which I experienced the well documented side-effect of exceptionally vivid dreams which were memorable upon waking; some of which I can still recall. That is an incredibly rare experience for me normally, and I often awoke feeling more refreshed than usual. It may just be coincidence, but Mirtazapine has also been the only anti-depressant which I found benefited my mental health, and I'm considering it again at the moment.

PS: And thankyou for the technology tips! :D


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CalicoMischief
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03 May 2019, 7:08 pm

I need a minimum of 8 hours to function the next day. It sucks cause i dont have a lot of time after work before i go to bed.



srd
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04 May 2019, 12:58 am

jimmy m wrote:
srd wrote:

It's been a while since my sleep study, but here's what came from it showing how I slept that night there:

Sleep Stage - Minutes - Percent - Normal percent
--------------------------------------------------
1 - 11.5 - 2.3% - 2-5%
2 - 373.5 - 73.8% - 46-65%
3 - 12.0 - 2.4% - 2-10%
4 - 91.0 - 18% - 0-5%
REM - 18 - 3.6% - 12-20%

Total time in bed was 593 minutes and total sleep time was 506 minutes


So looking at this your deep sleep is Sleep Stage 3 & 4. You have 103 minutes of deep sleep. That looks pretty good. Your body is repairing the physical damage and normalizing the stress energy from your awake day.

But your REM sleep of 18 minutes is way, way too low. It means that mentally you are not allowing enough time for your memory to be consolidated for permanent storage and that any lessons learned during the day are not being recorded. It is like a data buffer that overflows. The data is lost.



Perhaps that explains my memory. It's quite odd, there are some things I can recall without much if any effort, and
others either I cannot recall, or it takes a bit of thinking. With people, I can more easily remember who someone is
by aspects of their face or body than I can their name.


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srd
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04 May 2019, 2:20 am

I was just thinking not long ago about this and possibly something that may be a contributor to my sleep difficulties.
I find it very difficult to eat when I'm not hungry. Most of the time I usually don't eat until right before going to sleep.
I usually follow a ritual I guess you could say of eating something and watching some Star Trek from bed, then as soon
as I am finished eating, I work on falling asleep.


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jimmy m
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04 May 2019, 10:26 am

Trogluddite and srd, perhaps if you obtained a Fitbit with sleep monitoring capability, you might be able to experiment and improve your Deep Sleep and REM times. You might determine your baseline by averaging several days of sleep patterns together. Once you know your baseline, you can alter things (like not eating right before bedtime) and see what effect that has on your sleep pattern.

The Fitbit not only gives you your total sleep times in each category but also a very interesting graph of your nights sleep. This is one of mine from a few days ago.

Image


Whenever I go to bed, I am out like a light. I quickly transition into Deep Sleep. This repairs my body from the stress of the day. So my first half of my sleep is dedicated to repairing my body. The second half is focused on REM sleep which is resetting my mind preparing for the day ahead. It is storage of all the knowledge from the day.


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Dear_one
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04 May 2019, 10:49 am

Is a fitbit accurate, or just confident-looking? Can it be used without a 'phone? What's the low-cost option? According to my budget heart-rate meter, I'm dead.



Antrax
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04 May 2019, 10:52 am

I had a fitbit briefly. Irritated the hell out of my wrist, and gave me some anxiety of constantly tracking my heart rate. I no longer have a fit bit.


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jimmy m
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04 May 2019, 11:11 am

Dear_one, generally I think it is fairly accurate. But it seems to have one glitch. The way sleep tracking works is once the watch no longer detects movement, it will start recording a sleep log. When you wake up in the morning, get out of bed and take some steps is when it will recognize you are awake.

So when I get up in the middle of the night, sometimes it thinks I have stopped sleeping for the night and shows my sleep ending. But when I go back to bed, it starts a different log. This will show up as two separate sleeps logs for the same night. But it also takes the Fitbit time to establish the cycle. So there is total sleep time lost if you try manually to add the two sleep logs together. This happens rather rarely. I think it happened once in the last 3 months.

But the real problem is if you get up near the end of your sleep cycle. It just drops off this second sleep time. It disappears from your total. This happened 4 or 5 times over the past 3 months. So I have gotten in the habit of writing down the time that I wake up and making sure it matches.

[I was looking at a website which reported problems with the Versa when it first came out. Most of this occurred in early 2018. But it seems for the most part those early problems were fixed by the time my wife purchased the watch.]


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jimmy m
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04 May 2019, 11:26 am

Antrax wrote:
I had a fitbit briefly. Irritated the hell out of my wrist, and gave me some anxiety of constantly tracking my heart rate. I no longer have a fit bit.


After using the watch for several months, I started to develop a rash on my skin from the watchband. So I wear it only at night now and periodically wash the band. The band is designed to be easily removed from the watch; once you learn the trick. I also had been wearing it too tight around my wrist, so I loosened it up a bit. So it no longer appears to be a problem for me.


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Dear_one
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04 May 2019, 11:38 am

Thanks. I sleep two or three times a day. (When I was 20, I'd sleep three or four times a week.) If this thing can't recognize a nap, I can't imagine that it is doing more than guessing at REM time.



srd
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04 May 2019, 1:05 pm

I don't have a fitbit but an Apple Watch. I think I tracked my sleep some time ago with it although I can't
recall fully.


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