Am I the crazy one?

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Your Mother loves you and you love her.

Your Mum is not always right, but neither is she always wrong. The logic you have is not really the point is your mothers reasoning, and to her the point is that she is the one who should be making the decisions because as she is at the head of the household, it is her responsibility if something goes wrong.
Now you are also an adult so you will one day be in your Mums position and maybe you too will have children. You will then understand the situation. You probably do now.

Yes. I know it is conflict and I know that your reasoning is probably right as though one fish may unlikely cause your cat to die, you would rather not take the risk, and fair enough. You and your Mum both love your cat. No one is saying either of you don't. It is more that your Mums point is that she needs to have the athority, and that is why your Mum is frustrated. (Your point is that your Mum may not be making a wize decision).

So it is an idea to state your point and leave it like that and let your Mum have the final say.

In a traditional Christian family the husband has the final say, and if the husband is not there, the wife has the say,and if only the children are there then the eldest child has the final say as it is traditionally the eldest child who should look after the younger ones in the absence of their parents (E.g. if they are sent on an errand etc).
Now with todays concept about trying to make everyone equal it causes these conflicting situations. Admittedly here, that you are grown up so are responsible but you do not have your own home. (And there is nothing wrong at all with living with your Mum). But I understand the frustrations from both sides.

My advice is to let it pass. It is highly unlikely that one fish will contain enough salt on its own to cause any issues as normally your cat would have to eat lots of fish containing salt for it to cause its blood pressure to rize to dangerous levels, and if one fish did cause your cat to die, then your cat would not have lasted that much longer anyway. (I am not saying this to upset you. I am being logical here).
It is more important that you and your Mum get along despite your differences in oppinion, and that is why I say this.

I appreciate your point, I really do. And most of the time I do let these arguments pass for exactly the reasons you’ve described. However, my cat has a heart condition which makes it vital to keep salt out of her diet. I realize one smoked fish would not harm the average cat, (I’ve studied animal nutrition) but mine suffers from a specific condition where even a little extra salt can cause a seizure. You’re right in that she most likely won’t live much longer, (her sister died from the same condition just last year) but she has been living with this condition for over five years now without much issue (I’ve been very careful to monitor her diet as per the vets orders). I’ve been extremely diligent in keeping track of my pets health so I would be very disappointed in myself if I allowed her to become ill simply because my mom wanted to give her smoked salmon instead of her regular cat food. I wish I could say my mother was simply coming from a Christian point of view (at least I could make sense of that) but she actively despises traditional Christian beliefs with a passion so I’m very doubtful that she believes in having higher authority over adult children. I think that’s due in part to her relationship with her own traditional Christian mother whom she disliked because she was abused by her. In any case, I thank you for your input, hearing from all different perspectives is giving me a lot more to think about

The problem is that strictness itself is neither here or there in regards to Christianity.

There is a difference between a smacked behind and a beating.

A difference between anger and love.

Last edited by Mountain Goat on 05 Feb 2021, 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sorry, I wasn’t suggesting that my personal beliefs are that Christianity is inherently strict or abusive. That’s just how my mother perceives it based on her personal experience with her mother. Due to her abusive upbringing she seemed to want to distance herself from anything remotely resembling what her mother taught her was the proper “Christian” way. Though in reality it was my grandmothers own twisted version of Christianity. I myself don’t have any experience with Christianity as my mother raised me as an atheist. My mom did discipline me as a child though, even smacked me on a few occasions (when I deserved it and before that law was passed) so it wasn’t like she didn’t believe in discipline. I really liked what you said about love/correction and abuse/anger I think that’s a very good way of putting it. I’ll definitely think of that in the future to help me gain some clarity

I edited it to simplify it.

If you want to know more feel free to ask.

@Hairybunny

Objectively speaking, I think you're right and your mom is wrong. But that's the easy and obvious part of it. Even your mom seems to agree with you on that, which I think is a strong indication that she's not talking about anything objective and that she's not open to any objective argument. It's just not what the argument is about at all. What exactly is it about though, that's the hard question. She's probably feeling powerless some way or another, and trying to compensate for it the way she can. Chances are that there's not much you can do about that (not directly, at least). If you two had a close relationship, you could probably ask her "mom, why are you so upset over this? what's really bothering you?", and then you two would have an open conversation. But I think that's rare enough even in families with no heritage of bad parenting.

For you, it's clear that your subjective motivation for your stance is "you're worried about your cat". It probably wouldn't be that big a deal to give that fish to your cat, but you're worried about her, so... you won't. Simple enough. Your inflexibility is a manifestation of your concern. If you highlighted that in the argument ("look, I'm just worried about the cat, okay?"), maybe your mom would be more understanding and less inflexible herself. That's a big maybe though. Maybe, instead, she actually just wants your motivations to be about her, instead of being about your cat. Specifically going against reason, to force you to choose between one or the other. If that's the case, then it's definitely trickier to deal with.

Maybe if you did throw her a bone and agreed with her for a moment, she would meet you halfway in your concern for your cat. That's what you would expect from a secure person who's just going through an insecure moment. But your mother doesn't seem to fall under that category, so conceding your point would be a risky gamble. You can never bet anything that's important to you on it (though you can always still bet things that aren't all that important to you and see how it goes...). Dealing with chronically insecure people who seek reassurance by pushing other people's buttons or making unreasonable demands is a permanent game of 4D chess, unfortunately.

One simple thing that I think pays off to keep in mind though is that you don't need to always be candid with her. I don't think it's dishonest to deviate somewhat from your words if it's effective at improving relations and keeping the peace. Like, if you had said "alright, alright, whatever, I'll give it to the cat, but only this time, okay?" and you managed to throw the salmon away and give your cat regular cat food instead and your mom was none the wiser, I think that would be a win-win. Everybody gets what they wanted. Maybe you couldn't realistically do that specifically in your case, but I think it illustrates my point well enough.

There's always a risk when you do that kind of thing, of course, but if you're always at least half a step ahead in your head, then you can at least avoid worsening the relationship. Like, keeping with the same example: you take the salmon to the trash, but while you're doing it, you're already considering "okay, so, if she finds out, I'll tell her 'I'm sorry, I changed my mind, I was just too worried about the cat okay?'". It's a simple-enough measure to neutralize that one predictable confrontation in particular, and buy you time until the next one.

4D chess, unfortunately... Some people are just forever hard to deal with. In my experience though, sometimes people get more flexible over time if you do go the extra mile to deal with them. They may even know or suspect that you're not being entirely honest when you throw them the proverbial bone, but they might actually not care about it, because in the end you actually are going the extra mile for them (in a pretty bizarre way, but still), and that's what they wanted all along.

@ toadsnail

Wow, thank you so much for this awesomely well thought out comment! I really appreciate the effort
I’ve tried many times in recent years to ask her why she gets so upset during these arguments but it’s usually met with either her shutting down or her replying something like “because you’re just being overly “autistic” about this” which doesn’t really tell me anything? I’ve asked her to elaborate on it but she never does. Maybe I should throw her a bone more when it comes to arguing about the pets. I usually let these arguments go since they never amount to anything but when it comes to my pets, they are incredibly important to me which is why I fight so hard for them. I have tried explaining that I’m just worried about my cat (or whomever the argument is about) but that ended up with her ignoring my comment and going back to a different topic. You’ve given me a lot more to think about though. I’ll try some different approaches to handling things the next time we end up in an argument. Thanks again!

You might want to look at https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/717 ... munication Sometimes, long-running arguments are resolved just by one party showing that they have actually heard the other side before raising their own views.

Always good to hear that.

You learn a thing or two (well, hopefully you do...) after decades dealing with a mother whose immediate and persistent reaction to everything is "you're not trying hard enough" or just plain "you're lazy" (even when the problem is often that you're actually trying too hard already). I know she's actually not as bad at that as her mother was to her, so I think she deserves some understanding. Still, it doesn't make it any less aggravating.

When you're around someone that draining for long periods, I think your main responsibility in the maintenance of good relations is to keep yourself from being exhausted by them (or by yourself, for that matter... ). That's the one thing you have the most control over. Once you have that in mind, it gets easier to find clarity (and by extension, easier to spot opportunities for compromise). No matter what, though, it takes time.

Patience is a valuable and finite resource, but contrary to what it may seem, in some ways it's a shared resource. The more of it you have yourself, the more of it there is to go around. If you have some of it to spare, it's good to spend it. You'll be affording a little extra patience to someone else who doesn't have it at the moment (or rarely ever...). On the other hand, if you use more than you have available, you add to the shared debt. Both sides of it are important.

You're not crazy. It sounds like your mother was concerned about money and just needed to vent. My arguments with my mother are very similar. The issue discussed is just a front for a deeper problem. I commend you for keeping your cool.

I’m really glad I decided to post here because you’ve all been extremely helpful and I hope you all know how much I appreciate your thoughtful comments! Really, I feel like a weight has been lifted just hearing from those with more experience then me thank you!

You're welcome from my end, Hairybunny.

Yes Yes Yes! I was gonna say this too.
So important.

You sound a lot like me, obsessed with a certain way of doing things, obsessed with health so much seeing people drink a little alcohol really bothers me especially people close to me.

Now on health on heart condition people commonly still don't sometimes do what the doctor orders but the risk is indeed much lower if the event is occasional as opposed to regular.

She has a point but she is equally obsessed with not wasting food that she doesn't want to trash the food or not wasting space in the fridge or not making it stink. I don't know what the problem is for her. Is she ocd about some things, like cleanliness and order? While you're more relaxed. It surely sounds she complains about being poor a little bit. It impressively reminds me of mom and me

So you bang heads because you are both using the same communication style and have similar strong beliefs.

She wanted to stop the conversation through being silent while you felt bad and tried to overexplain yourself. She already knew your point, though.

That she would be narcissistic is pretty irrelevant. It's not like she would specifically try to ruin you. Narcs have their own issues that make it hard for them to get along with people. But you can avoid prolonging the discussion after you said your opinion once.

If it's your cat I suggest only you deciding for her and further questions denied. take the cat to your room and\or feed it yourself

Now you probably can't do the same about food, to have your own. But on the cat the discussions are limited

Now you can't avoid talks because living together makes it necessary. Good luck

I want to add that a seeming trigger for her seems to be thinking that you are blaming her for not buying the better thing unsalted fish which is exactly how my mom reacts. Defensively. But you actually meant to talk about a different thing.
It might be because you explained about which fish is better and which is worse.
I couldn't pinpoint this in my interactions but on your description it's easier

I immediately thought of that after what I said about the better food brand (although that comment was a direct response to my mom calling her usual food garbage) and that’s when I sort of backtracked and started telling her that it really doesn’t matter to me which brand she gets I’m just specifically concerned about the sodium in the fish. I do worry about sounding like I’m blaming her and I’ve told her during many arguments that I’m not trying to blame her for anything I’m just trying to explain why I do things the way I do them. Maybe I could do better by telling her sooner in the argument though?

On the topic of Narcs you’re probably right, I’m really unsure when it comes that stuff since I’m just beginning to research it myself. She does have a lot of tendencies but like I mentioned before, that could stem from her growing up in an abusive home where she didn’t know it was abnormal. As far as relationships with other people go, others seem to either really hate her or really like her, there’s no in between. Not sure if that would indicate anything though.