How do you feel about the idea of telepathy existing and...?

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02 Apr 2021, 1:43 pm

i've known psychic people who seemed to know what i was thinking. at least one of them told me my thoughts gave them a headache.

Technic1
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02 Apr 2021, 1:46 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Technic1 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Technic1 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Technic1 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Technic1 wrote:

Do you think (if) aliens exist with their bigger and way more advanced than us brains would be capable of telepathy?

I wouldn't assume alien life would be smarter than us, or that greater intellect would be required for telepathy.

Individually they don't need to be very intelligent if they can harness their collective intellect better than us and telepathy would be the easiest means by which to do that.

Aliens are FAR smarter than we are!

See my thread hear.

viewtopic.php?t=395775

That's just like your opinion man. :nerdy:

It takes 1 million light years to get to our nearest possibly inhabited planet...

...UFO!

And we can’t do that.

Light years are a measure of distance, not time.

No extraterrestrial life has visited here so hypothetically if they exist there's no reason to assume their achievements are beyond our own. If you have concrete evidence of extraterrestrial life visiting that might lend credibility to your position, but I doubt you've got more evidence than Tom DeLonge (who has zero conclusive evidence).

Further, individual intelligence isn't the most important element in what a group can achieve. A genius can just as easily end up an outcast with no influence which is why I suggest that a hivemind might be more effective for an advanced species.

Ok but...

We would all have to like each other, get along and not be evil for a hive mind.

Plus if we were ever at war with aliens, it only takes one person to mess up and the world is screwed.

I'm not sure I agree with any of your assumptions.

Any alternative model of intelligence would involve trade-offs compared to our own. In order for that model to exist it would have to solve any potentially fatal flaws so it's always fair to assume that an obvious fatal flaw hasn't been incorporated and to consider how any non-fatal flaws impact how that model performs.

For a eusocial life form operating as part of a collective is obligatory so the things you suggest would be required but not far-fetched.

The less eusocial the hypothetical life is the more tolerant of competing interests it would have to be, but again since this is the only way it could work it's not far-fetched to assume it would be capable of dealing with those issues. It would be far-fetched to assume it's not capable of dealing with those issues because if it were to be incapable it would have failed long before we ever become aware of them.

If an alien species were to be substantially more advanced than us there's no way that contact with us could break their society. That said, if we're not useful and not likely to be compatible they'd have no reason to engage with us.

‘Not far fetched’??

I didn’t get the rest-please explain.

funeralxempire
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02 Apr 2021, 1:47 pm

Technic1 wrote:

‘Not far fetched’??

I didn’t get the rest-please explain.

You'll need to explain what I need to explain.

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Technic1
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02 Apr 2021, 1:56 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Technic1 wrote:

‘Not far fetched’??

I didn’t get the rest-please explain.

You'll need to explain what I need to explain.

Please explain the first paragraph?

And also ‘tolerance of competing interests’ doesn’t explain evil in the universe?

Technic1
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02 Apr 2021, 2:01 pm

auntblabby wrote:

i've known psychic people who seemed to know what i was thinking. at least one of them told me my thoughts gave them a headache.

THAT matters!

funeralxempire
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02 Apr 2021, 2:39 pm

Technic1 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Technic1 wrote:

‘Not far fetched’??

I didn’t get the rest-please explain.

You'll need to explain what I need to explain.

Please explain the first paragraph?

And also ‘tolerance of competing interests’ doesn’t explain evil in the universe?

It wasn't intended to explain evil. Evil wasn't relevant.

funeralxempire wrote:

Any alternative model of intelligence would involve trade-offs compared to our own. In order for that model to exist it would have to solve any potentially fatal flaws so it's always fair to assume that an obvious fatal flaw hasn't been incorporated and to consider how any non-fatal flaws impact how that model performs.

What I mean is that it's not really possible to objectively compare intelligence between any two species, real or hypothetical. Other brains work differently and sometimes can exceed our abilities in some regards but not in others.

This basically means that for those societies to exist issues caused by differences in how their brains operate compared to ours would need to be (mostly) resolved. If they're not, they don't form a functional society. A glaring fatal flaw will be fatal, not something that waits to unfold as a plot point like it might in sci-fi or fantasy.

Possessing telepathy would be such a game changer that we might not be able to conceive of how it would impact the evolution of a species or how the societies formed by such a species might operate. Possessing that trait might make developing more complex individual intelligence less necessary when compared to humans. That's what I was getting at when I say they might not need to be as intelligent as us to still be more advanced.

Earthbound_Alien
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02 Apr 2021, 3:02 pm

Technic1 wrote:

Quote:

Further, individual intelligence isn't the most important element in what a group can achieve. A genius can just as easily end up an outcast with no influence which is why I suggest that a hivemind might be more effective for an advanced species.

I am not convinced, whilst a hivemind might be beneficial it will still have its limitations and may not lead to the ultimate survival of the species.

funeralxempire
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02 Apr 2021, 3:11 pm

Earthbound_Alien wrote:

Technic1 wrote:

Quote:

I am not convinced, whilst a hivemind might be beneficial it will still have its limitations and may not lead to the ultimate survival of the species.

I'm not suggesting it would lack limitations, I'm pretty sure I said the opposite that everything has trade-offs and limitations.

I also don't believe 'ultimate survival' is a consideration because on a long enough time line the survival rate drops to zero.

Technic1
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02 Apr 2021, 3:14 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Technic1 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Technic1 wrote:

‘Not far fetched’??

I didn’t get the rest-please explain.

You'll need to explain what I need to explain.

Please explain the first paragraph?

And also ‘tolerance of competing interests’ doesn’t explain evil in the universe?

It wasn't intended to explain evil. Evil wasn't relevant.

funeralxempire wrote:

I don’t think they have a functional society... michio kaku the physicist says we will have many apocalyptic events to get over in the next (well) forever...

QuantumChemist
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02 Apr 2021, 3:34 pm

auntblabby wrote:

i've known psychic people who seemed to know what i was thinking. at least one of them told me my thoughts gave them a headache.

I visited a carnival once that had a “psychic” that tried to read others futures. She became very afraid of me when I entered the room, said something along the lines of “pure evil energy”. I got a good laugh out of it. Maybe she did see my dark side after all. I never got my fortune told by her after that as she avoided my presence. Everyone else in the group I was with got their fortunes before we left.

To be honest, I do not believe she could actually do what she claimed. I just thought it was funny how she reacted to me. It was worth the admission to see that happen.

LaurenMK
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02 Apr 2021, 3:40 pm

Apologies, but I find your carnival psychic story hilarious. You do anything evil recently to support her claims (sarcasm)? I once had one tell me that evil spirits wanted to follow me and take me down essentially. Her solution? To buy some specialty cleansing candles to ward off these spirits. I was young and almost duped. I obviously did my research after that.

Yakuzamonroe
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02 Apr 2021, 3:45 pm

As an existing property of the human mind, it is eternally fascinating and I would love a scientific explanation as to how it is possible(as a guy who poses sci-fi questions to himself on a daily basis).

But, as part of a possible social reality, it would have me freezing in place wearing tin-foil hats to stop people from prying open the tight lid on the daily operations of my mind. I mean, on top of the general anxieties I have about the social reality I'm forced to face on a regular basis, I've crippling episodes that put me in catatonic states in part due to the possibilities of harm I can face if people knew more about my personal life.

Now imagine people who have that one clear window into my thoughts whenever they feel like it.

The implications of violating privacy don't even begin to describe the issues we would face if telepathy were a reality. I'm talking about how it affects order as it is that high-profile individuals in high-powered economics-based careers or in key political positions can have sensitive, esoteric, normally, "need-to-know" information leaked to the public. Not to mention government response to such a phenomenon, leading to those with such abilities likely being detained or forced into internment for public safetly.

All in all, it's wonderful to think about, but an absolute nightmare in practice.

Technic1
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02 Apr 2021, 5:30 pm

Yakuzamonroe wrote:

Would there be more or less crime.

Fnord
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02 Apr 2021, 6:15 pm

If telepathic humans were to become the norm, the institution of "Thought Police" would also be normal...

Marc Miller wrote:

[...] ]The end result is that occasionally a citizen will sit awake late at night, depressed and angry. Some aspect of society has affected him adversely, and he has been unable to cope with it.

Perhaps he lost his old job and is unhappy with his new one; perhaps he is jealous of a neighbor who is more successful than he is. The thought patterns spell deviance, and roving Thought Police patrols pick them up. Late at night, there is a knock at the door. The citizen knows the Thought Police have arrived; he invites them in. They enter, talk quietly or loudly depending on what their quick diagnosis indicates. After a few minutes, the citizen leaves with the Thought Police. A note is left behind telling where they have gone. Already, the citizen feels slightly better knowing that someone cares.

A few days or weeks later, the citizen returns home, much happier. His new job is exactly what he needs and wants; a perfect outlet for his ambitions. His successful neighbor, he now knows, leads a shallow life without the enjoyment and fulfillment that it should have. The world itself seems brighter and clearer. [...]

Relax, citizen. We are from the Government, and we are here to help you. Everything is going to be fine ... just fine ...

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kitesandtrainsandcats
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02 Apr 2021, 6:37 pm

Technic1 wrote:

Do you think you could handle having to be social and other people knowing your thoughts?

Hmm, I wonder if how I personally feel about telepathy is what is expressed in a sci-fi story I sometimes play at writing; some characters have it and can use it, some a only able to sense when that energy is being used, and most people have no telepathic ability. And the depth of communication is controlled, you can not dive in to someone's thoughts without their permission, at least not when they are conscious, but can often sense whether their general emotions and mood are congruent with what they appear to be. And importantly, the employment of telepathic ability is voluntary, it is not an 'always on' thing.

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HeroOfHyrule
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02 Apr 2021, 6:44 pm

When I was a kid I thought that other people could read my thoughts. It made me very paranoid and gave me a lot of anxiety.

I don't think that I could handle people actually being able to read my thoughts, I'd probably heavily avoid being in contact with other people.

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