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SocOfAutism
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25 Oct 2024, 11:33 am

ach wrote:
SocOfAutism wrote:
Personal interest would be the only reason to see if you really have dyscalculia,


Actually, I would like to go through the Horrible Pain of getting a PhD, and a diagnosis might facilitate getting accommodations.


Okay then, in that case, see what specific accommodations you would want, and if you think the accommodations would be helpful enough to be worth getting, then pursue a diagnosis. But keep in mind that it will be harder because that you are doing a thing that is hard and are making great progress and will have to defend that. Perhaps to stupid people who identify as smart people (lol).

Colliegrace sounds like a person with actual biological dyscalculia, so they might be a good person to keep bouncing things off of.

I noted that Colliegrace is also has a non-binary gender. This is actually a helpful talking point for understanding math. Let me wander off into the weeds for a minute, but there is a point to it, I promise.

People on the autism spectrum do have different brains. We know this because functional MRIs show that autistic people have different parts light up when they do all kinds of things, or are trying to feel different emotions. However, no one knows if that difference came to pass from living an autistic life, or if the brain was "hard wired" to become like that in the first place, because it had to be. To make an analogy here, we use ships or planes to cross an ocean because we can't walk straight through. That's a hard difference between water and land.

People on the autism spectrum are more likely to have many social-based differences. A person's body is not social, so we all have pensises or vaginas, but gender is socially constructed. Women in Papua New Guinea have a different diet than men, for example. In the US, we all eat more or less whatever we want. So that is a social difference. When you are autistic, your sense of social things will not be completely in tune with the larger social group you are in, and you will understand things more in your own way. This is why there has been a bit of a correlation in non-binary and trans people being on the spectrum. They aren't being "tricked," they are just different.

HERE I GET TO MATH. Most of us are taught how to do math. It is also social. Unless you are moving concrete objects around, like cave man Ugg in his cave. Most people and lots of animals can understand math in that way. Give food. Take food. No food. More food. That's math. But if we have to carry the one and use exponents and formulas and so on, it becomes abstract and therefore a human, or social invention. Your understanding of math may not be in line with society. It may be more efficient, or less efficient. Your difference is biological AND social. Did the chicken or the egg come first, I don't know, and I don't believe anyone else can know right now.

If that did not make sense, I can clarify.

TL;DR Interesting! Both difficulties in math and differences in gender identity are more likely with people on the autism spectrum, because both of these things involve heavy social constructionism



Lost_dragon
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25 Oct 2024, 12:15 pm

colliegrace wrote:
I definitely have dyscalculia. I'm not diagnosed but my bio father was dx'd with it at a young age, my older half sibling has it, and I was behind multiple grades in school all due to math struggles.


8O Does the USA have testing that is a lot more readily available? How did he get tested for it? Who did he contact? As in, did he ask the school? Did the school refer him? Or did he go to a GP for a referral? And at a young age as well...what magic is this?!

Sorry. I just tried to find anyone in my teenage years and no one wanted to know so I'm a bit jealous of your dad here. Some places told me that they only do a very specific area of the country, or that I needed a dyslexia diagnosis in order to take a dyscalculia assessment. That they won't see me unless I have that diagnosis, which would mean additional cost.

My university would only cover the cost of an assessment (£300 to £500) if my course was deemed maths-heavy enough (which it wasn't) and I couldn't find anywhere suitable on my own.

That's why I've given up. Although I've yet to try going to a GP. Maybe they'd have links I can't find. Or I suppose I could try asking the Restart Scheme (a part of my job centre) if they have any connections but they might try to get me to take my Maths GCSE exam again which sounds like an absolute nightmare. I've already taken that thing three times. Three times was enough. Heck maybe I should ask the UK members on Reddit.


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colliegrace
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25 Oct 2024, 12:17 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
colliegrace wrote:
I definitely have dyscalculia. I'm not diagnosed but my bio father was dx'd with it at a young age, my older half sibling has it, and I was behind multiple grades in school all due to math struggles.


8O Does the USA have testing that is a lot more readily available? How did he get tested for it? Who did he contact? As in, did he ask the school? Did the school refer him? Or did he go to a GP for a referral? And at a young age as well...what magic is this?!

Sorry. I just tried to find anyone in my teenage years and no one wanted to know so I'm a bit jealous of your dad here. Some places told me that they only do a very specific area of the country, or that I needed a dyslexia diagnosis in order to take a dyscalculia assessment. That they won't see me unless I have that diagnosis, which would mean additional cost.

My university would only cover the cost of an assessment (£300 to £500) if my course was deemed maths-heavy enough (which it wasn't) and I couldn't find anywhere suitable on my own.

That's why I've given up. Although I've yet to try going to a GP. Maybe they'd have links I can't find. Or I suppose I could try asking the Restart Scheme (a part of my job centre) if they have any connections but they might try to get me to take my Maths GCSE exam again which sounds like an absolute nightmare. I've already taken that thing three times. Three times was enough.

Well my father grew up in the 70s so I don't know the details. Also we're kinda semi-estranged.

He also has an ADHD diagnosis that he got at some point and he was on Ritalin when he was school aged.


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colliegrace
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25 Oct 2024, 12:21 pm

It's probably helpful to note that my father's diagnosis at the time was "dyslexia with numbers". The term dyscaculia wasn't in use yet.


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Lost_dragon
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25 Oct 2024, 2:34 pm

^

Honestly I'm surprised it existed at all as a diagnosis. I very rarely meet people who have heard of it.

My dad is what I would consider textbook dyslexic but there weren't any available resources to him growing up (pretty rough and underfunded area) so he was never formally diagnosed. There were bigger issues to focus on socio-economically. He has no desire to get it in writing as an adult since at this point it doesn't make much of a difference.

I also had an ancestor who struggled with visual processing issues so much that she couldn't learn to read sheet music. Apparently the notes would dance up and down the page (I relate).

Despite this she really wanted to learn the piano because she loved the instrument. However, she had an incredible visual memory. If she saw someone perform a piece on the piano, she was able to copy it exactly. So she learnt how to play by watching others and copying the notes from memory. I think that's pretty amazing.


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colliegrace
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25 Oct 2024, 9:32 pm

Yeah. In all honesty I'm surprised he got dx'd with ADHD too. Like... the term ADHD wasn't coined until early 80s... though it may have existed in less official terms before that. I mean.... the official stuff tends to come after tons and tons of research? So it would have existed in the minds of some professionals I guess whether or not they used the term ADHD.

It's quite possibly my grandmother spared no expense in getting him tested or to the right professionals. She seems very resourceful and she fiercely loves her children and grandchildren.


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ASD level 1, ADHD-C, most likely have dyscalculia & BPD as well.
RAADs: 104 | ASQ: 30 | Aspie Quiz: 116/200 (84% probability of being atypical)

Also diagnosed with: seasonal depression, anxiety, OCD


ach
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28 Oct 2024, 11:14 pm

SocOfAutism wrote:
Okay then, in that case, see what specific accommodations you would want, and if you think the accommodations would be helpful enough to be worth getting, then pursue a diagnosis.


Formal nonsense has helped quite a bit. Some examples are as follows:
  • As a type theorist, I can use proof assistance to ensure that I have not left any Stupid Mistakes, e.g., botched arithmetic, although I rarely work with numbers, in my papers.
  • In my high-school statistics class, I could hardly ever remember the relevant formulae, but I could, with a bit of extra work, come to a realization like "hey, so-and-so is just an integral on the bell curve" and think accordingly.
  • In preparation for calculus classes, I have written a handful of computer algebra systems, although the most recent computer algebra system, Casanova Fly, is the only such system which is developed at all regularly. :-)
  • I tend to find solutions after thinking in obnoxiously formal, abstract terms.

I think that I am pretty great with abstract stuff, but numbers and similar things just kill me. Fortunately, adding machines exist. :-)

SocOfAutism wrote:
But keep in mind that it will be harder because that you are doing a thing that is hard and are making great progress and will have to defend that.


Relax. I am already convinced.

SocOfAutism wrote:
But if we have to carry the one and use exponents and formulas and so on, it becomes abstract and therefore a human, or social invention.


I do not agree. Despite liking many aspects of mathematical intuitionism, e.g., intuitionistic logic, I believe that mathematical objects literally exist; I think that the universe is a mathematical object.