Why so many ASD and ASD like people portrait it as failure?

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colliegrace
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09 Feb 2025, 11:30 pm

Sidenote, I actually do not see going on disability as a failure, or failing.

I see it as a means to an end. I rather think I can be more successful and happy in life and can pursue the stuff I actually want to achieve.


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ToughDiamond
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10 Feb 2025, 2:44 am

colliegrace wrote:
Sidenote, I actually do not see going on disability as a failure, or failing.

I see it as a means to an end. I rather think I can be more successful and happy in life and can pursue the stuff I actually want to achieve.

Absolutely. Scoring benefits is an achievement. Far less of a failure than starving to death would be.



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10 Feb 2025, 11:01 am

AsaboveAsbelow wrote:
For diagnosis: autism is a spectrum flexible, people can learn ti deal with and switch from 2 to 1... please, don't spread false news and check your infomations.
This is insulting and quite wrong; you are badly misinformed.
Saying "Oh it's Ok - you just need to try harder" to someone on the spectrum is about as useful as suggesting it as a "fix" for someone's blindness.

Maybe this will help a little:

Image


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gwynfryn
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10 Feb 2025, 11:34 am

Be careful with definitions and diagnoses here; there are certainly a host of dificulties now described as ASD, but to me, being Autistic is like winning life's lottery! It hasn't been easy, when having to deal with those stange NTs, but otherwise there is no one else I'd rather be. I'm not alone in this; those few who I've encountered on the net, that I considered kindred spirits, and who are thus probably Autistic by the same definition (the historic one; it's an aspect of personality) were unanimous in this espect.



colliegrace
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10 Feb 2025, 11:40 am

Doesn't help that ASD involves difficulties we don't know how to explain until we learn about our own condition, and sometimes not even then. Before I understood what sensory processing disorder was (it's part of the diagnostic criteria for ASD), I had no way to explain that sometimes I would feel sick for no apparent reason.

Now granted, people still don't believe me even when I have the words to explain.


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funeralxempire
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10 Feb 2025, 11:41 am

gwynfryn wrote:
Be careful with definitions and diagnoses here; there are certainly a host of dificulties now described as ASD, but to me, being Autistic is like winning life's lottery! It hasn't been easy, when having to deal with those stange NTs, but otherwise there is no one else I'd rather be. I'm not alone in this; those few who I've encountered on the net, that I considered kindred spirits, and who are thus probably Autistic by the same definition (the historic one; it's an aspect of personality) were unanimous in this espect.


If this is winning the lottery I'd hate to see what losing the lottery gets you.

It's not much of a lottery is the prize is here's a bunch of maladaptive traits, may your life be interesting.


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10 Feb 2025, 12:05 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
gwynfryn wrote:
Be careful with definitions and diagnoses here; there are certainly a host of dificulties now described as ASD, but to me, being Autistic is like winning life's lottery! It hasn't been easy, when having to deal with those stange NTs, but otherwise there is no one else I'd rather be. I'm not alone in this; those few who I've encountered on the net, that I considered kindred spirits, and who are thus probably Autistic by the same definition (the historic one; it's an aspect of personality) were unanimous in this espect.


If this is winning the lottery I'd hate to see what losing the lottery gets you.

It's not much of a lottery is the prize is here's a bunch of maladaptive traits, may your life be interesting.

You may well be correct with regard to very many cases of ASD, but I expect there are some for whom the benefits outweigh any downside. Beyond a few relatively minor tweaks I wouldn't want to change my nature. It's rare that I've envied anybody else's brain, and I'm perfectly capable of envy. But maybe I don't know what I'm missing.



colliegrace
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10 Feb 2025, 12:28 pm

Autism is a cluster of traits, some good, some bad, some neutral. I can see some having a better mixed hodgepodge than others.

For me, I also get hyperfixations so intense that they send me into hypomania, and possibly full on mania. Like, legit. The kind of thing you see in bipolar disorder. (I'm not bipolar, for sure. You can have mania without being bipolar. Bipolar is a pattern, and many things can trigger mania in a human. It's an excess of dopamine.)

Like I'll run on next to no sleep for weeks on end, I'll have so much giddy, hyper energy, I'll talk fast, I'll be extra spacey, I'll do things like go on walks for hours, etc. Also be more careless and spend my money like mad.

I've also had hyperfixations become addictions with withdrawals and everything.


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RAADs: 104 | ASQ: 30 | CAT-Q: 139 | Aspie Quiz: 116/200 (84% probability of being atypical)


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10 Feb 2025, 12:43 pm

While there are many possible mistakes to be made, I'll warn folk here not to make the same mistake I made shortly after I was diagnosed. I thought I'd done reasonably well for myself.

Then I thought "I wonder if there are any famous Autistic people..."
I made the mistake of checking.

My ego was crushed. 8O They appeared to me to be so much better than me.

Eventually I remembered it was a spectrum. We're all different. Even famous Autistics probably had their struggles with it.

P.S. I've never gone weeks without sleep...but...

I worked for a government contractor. We were the lead contractor on a bid. I was our contact for one aspect of the bid. Feel sorry for my contacts from the other companies. The government asked a question in our purview. I now know my response can be attributed to Autism...

I went in at my normal time on Tuesday morning. Got the question. Began working on a response with the contacts from the other companies. When I was still there when my manager returned from lunch on Thursday he threw me out.

Feel especially sorry for those contacts from the other companies. They tried stay up with me. Later I did apologize to them.


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10 Feb 2025, 7:51 pm

Eh.

Apparently I have a particular trait that not a lot humans tend to have; to make do out of certain things. Let alone autistics.

This includes unmaskable disability.
To a point I'd be confident to live alone while being "actually disabled".

It's not a common trait.
On the outside, it looked like resilience, optimism, adaptability...

I chalk it off as cultural.
I really thought it's because of the culture I live and grew up with because those are the traits known yhe culture for.

Then I met other autistics within my country.
They don't have that mentality either.
They mostly have the similar mentality as the countless stories I've read over and over...

Making that particular privilege trait more mine than of something else.



It's a trait I possess that I'm more obsessed over than anything about autism, you see.

Not even high IQ types could figure.

Just that having the appropriate level of executive function is an exponential multiplier to it's effectiveness.


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AsaboveAsbelow
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12 Feb 2025, 12:24 pm

Cornflake wrote:
AsaboveAsbelow wrote:
For diagnosis: autism is a spectrum flexible, people can learn ti deal with and switch from 2 to 1... please, don't spread false news and check your infomations.
This is insulting and quite wrong; you are badly misinformed.
Saying "Oh it's Ok - you just need to try harder" to someone on the spectrum is about as useful as suggesting it as a "fix" for someone's blindness.

Maybe this will help a little:

Image


I doesn't disappear but modern mindful practice help to deal with, isn't an insult... simple modern world, modern psychology got evolved.

Btw, I do check my resources... usually based on DSM 5, university resources. I'm sorry. Btw an image isn't a resource.

Quote:
Levels of Autism: An Explanation
Elizabeth Quaye
| Publish Date April 22, 2024
levels of autism
The American Psychiatric’s Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-5-TR) provides the criteria for ASD diagnosis based on specific symptom profiles. As part of these criteria, the DSM-5-TR outlines specifiers of symptom severity, which it categorizes as “levels.”

Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is a complex developmental disorder involving persistent deficits in social communication and interaction in addition to restricted, repetitive behaviors, interests, and activities.1,2 The American Psychiatric’s Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-5-TR) provides the criteria for ASD diagnosis based on specific symptom profiles.1 As part of these criteria, the DSM-5-TR outlines specifiers of symptom severity, which it categorizes as “levels.”1 This article describes the criteria and various levels of symptom severity used in the diagnosis of ASD.
Changes to the Autism Diagnosis

Autism was first identified as a distinct diagnosis in DSM-III, which was published in 1980.3 In DSM-IV-TR, a patient with symptoms of autism would likely be diagnosed with 1 of 4 disorders under the category of pervasive developmental disorder (PDD): autistic disorder, Asperger’s disorder, childhood disintegrative disorder, or PDD not otherwise specified.4 However, because researchers determined that these 4 diagnoses were not consistently applied by different clinicians, PDD was replaced with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) in DSM-5.4 A patient who met the criteria for 1 of the 4 PDD diagnosis in DSM-IV-TR will likely meet the criteria for ASD in DSM-5.4
DSM-5-TR Criteria for Autism Spectrum Disorder

The DSM-5-TR criteria for ASD are summarized as follows1:

A. Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction as manifested by all of the following:

Deficiencies in social-emotional reciprocity (examples: inability to engage in normal back-and-forth conversation, reduced sharing of interests/emotions/affect, failure to initiate or respond to social interactions);
Deficiencies in nonverbal gestures used in social interaction (examples: problems with eye contact, body language, or understanding/using gestures, lack of facial expressions and nonverbal communication); and
Deficiencies in developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships (examples: lack of interest in peers, difficulty making friends).

B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least 2 of the following:

Repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (examples: body rocking, arm or hand flapping, lining up toys, repeating words just spoken by another person);
Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routine, or ritualized patterns of behavior (examples: difficulty with transitions, rigid thinking patterns, needing to eat the same food each day);
Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (examples: a strong attachment to peculiar objects); and
Hypersensitivity or hyporeactivity to sensory input or abnormal interest in sensory aspects of the environment (examples: indifference to pain or temperature, adverse response to specific sounds or textures).

C. Symptoms must be present in the early developmental period.

D. Symptoms significantly impair social, occupational, or other important functional areas.

E. Deficits are not better explained by intellectual disability or global developmental delay.
Specifiers for the ASD diagnosis include the following1:

With or without accompanying intellectual impairment;
With or without accompanying language impairment;
Associated with a known medical or genetic condition or environmental factor;
Associated with another neurodevelopmental, mental, or behavioral disorder;
With catatonia, and
The current severity specifiers.

The 3 Levels of Autism Spectrum Disorder

The current severity specifiers consist of 3 levels, ranging from least severe (Level 1) to most severe (Level 3). The severity of each of the 2 main criterion — social communication and restricted, repetitive behaviors — should be rated separately.1
Level 1: Requires Support

Individuals with ASD categorized as Level 1 have the least severe symptoms and require the lowest level of support.

Social communication: Patients classified as Level 1 will have noticeable impairments unless supports are in place. They generally have difficulty initiating social interactions and will give atypical responses to others’ social overtures. Patients classified as Level 1 may have a reduced interest in social interactions. For example, a person specified as Level 1 might be able to speak full sentences and communicate, but would not be able to have a mutual, back-and-forth conversation. Additionally, their efforts to make friends often fail.1

Restricted, repetitive behaviors: These individuals’ rigid behavior limits their ability to function in 1 or more contexts. They tend to have challenges alternating between activities, and their independence is hindered by issues with organization and planning.1
Level 2: “Requires Substantial Support”

Patients with ASD classified as Level 2 have more severe symptoms that cause greater impairment and require substantial support.1

Social communication: Patients specified as Level 2 have marked deficits in verbal and nonverbal social communication skills. Even with support, their social impairments are apparent. They generally have limited ability to initiate social interactions, and will provide decreased or aberrant responses to others’ social overtures. For example, a patient classified as Level 2 might be able to speak basic sentences, but their interactions with others would be limited to narrow special interests, and their nonverbal communication would be odd.1

Restricted, repetitive behaviors: Individuals with ASD Level 2 have inflexible behavior, problems adjusting to change, or similar behaviors that are frequent enough to be obvious and interfere with functioning in various contexts. They also have distress and/or difficulty changing focus or action.1
Level 3: “Requires Very Substantial Support”

Patients with ASD specified as Level 3 have the most severe symptoms and require very substantial support.1

Social communication: Individuals classified as Level 3 have extreme deficits in verbal and nonverbal social communication that cause severe impairments in functioning. Their ability to initiate social interactions is very limited, and they will provide minimal response to others’ social overtures. They tend to only respond to very direct social approaches. For example, a patient specified as Level 3 would have very few words of intelligible speech and would rarely initiate interactions with others.1

Restricted, repetitive behaviors: Patients with Level 3 exhibit inflexible behaviors, problems adjust to change, or similar behaviors that interfere with every aspect of their lives. They experience tremendous distress and difficulty changing focus or action.1
How the Levels Are Used

Using the levels to clarify the severity of ASD symptoms gives clinicians and caregivers information they can use to tailor services and support specific to an individual patient’s needs. However, it is important to recognize that these levels are only used to describe the patient’s current symptomatology.1 Symptoms of ASD might fluctuate over time; can vary greatly based on the patient’s developmental level, age, environment, and other characteristics; and might fall below Level 1.1

While helpful, the levels should not be used to determine a patient’s eligibility for specific services or treatments; that requires an individualized assessment that takes into account the patient’s personal priorities and goals.1

References:

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-5-TR). American Psychiatric Association Publishing. Accessed February 28, 2022. https://www.appi.org/dsm5tr
What is autism spectrum disorder? American Psychiatric Association. 2023. Accessed February 7, 2024. https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-fam ... m-disorder
Autism in the DSM. The Autism History Project. Herman E. 2019. Accessed February 29, 2024. https://blogs.uoregon.edu/autismhistory ... n-the-dsm/
DSM-5 autism spectrum disorder fact sheet. American Psychiatric Association. Published 2013. Accessed February 8, 2024. https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Libra ... sorder.pdf


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CockneyRebel
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12 Feb 2025, 10:41 pm

I don't see my autism as a failure. I see it as a different way as being. Some people are meant to be 9 to 5ers and other people are meant to be hippies. I'm meant to be a hippie. My sister works in an office. I'm not inferior to my sister at all. I'm just different. Sometimes, it's okay to be different.


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13 Feb 2025, 9:39 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Some posts were removed.

Lecturing and accusing others of ignorance doesn't help the discussion and only results in pushback from those accused.
This shouldn't need stating, but it's best to not make the accusations in the first place.


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colliegrace
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13 Feb 2025, 3:53 pm

Yeah, my source is also the DSM V and other similar stuffs. I do practice mindfulness and stuff, I've been in therapy w multiple therapists (some good, some bad), I've done my damn research and learned many things that HAVE and DO help me. I have a good sense for resourcefulness.

Sorry, but you can't "mindfulness" away SPD. Sensory issues don't care if I'm aware of them and what's going on or not, they wreak havoc regardless and go up and down depending on what's going on in my life.

Also, all the extra s**t we gotta do to do the same stuff as everyone else? That's part of the disability. That's what leads to burnout, actually.... spending extra energy that is unsustainable.
So the fact that I'm now in severe autistic burnout... means that I need to adjust my life going forward. Or I will only fall into burnout again and again and again.


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Currently in early stages of recovering from autistic burnout.

RAADs: 104 | ASQ: 30 | CAT-Q: 139 | Aspie Quiz: 116/200 (84% probability of being atypical)


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13 Feb 2025, 4:29 pm

In my experience people who've told me that I'm practicing victimization & that I just need to try harder are incapable of understanding my unique situation. Those people like the OP are not disabled & they could never understand what it's like to be disabled unless they were to develop a major disability or something were to happen to make their current disabilities a lot worse. I bet then they will get very upset when they get treated negatively by society & called lazy for not being more functional despite the fact they are trying their very best just to get by day to day.


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colliegrace
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13 Feb 2025, 4:44 pm

My experience, I didn't consider my ASD and cluster of mental and chronic physical stuff to all add up to a legit disability until it began to affect my job to the point I had to quit, had no choice. And looking at my life for things like how executive dysfunction affect me to the point that I need elaborate systems to circumvent the executive dysfunction.... stuff that does help, stuff that works with me.
Thing is, taking care of myself is physically taxing and harder than it is, for people who do not have ADHD and autism.

And if something big comes along to disrupt my support systems, and it always does sooner or later, it takes literal months to rebuild them.

Currently working on adjusting my life to avoid future burnouts and getting back on track. Rediscovering the systems I had in place, but also developing new ones. The Soft App has been great for me, it has so many resources and I'm learning new tricks.

I am looking at applying for SSDI, am in the applicant process actually. But I am also tentatively looking into work that I can hopefully handle now that my physical exhaustion isn't so bad as it was a couple months ago. No retail, never again... but maybe if I can find a secure office job I'll be set.

I always had issues at my job, and had to do stuff to work around them.... turns out, was not sustainable. That's why I'm burnt out now. The issues became more pronounced and harder and harder to manage with time.


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ASD level 1 & ADHD-C (professional dx), dyscalcula (self dx), very severe RSD.
Currently in early stages of recovering from autistic burnout.

RAADs: 104 | ASQ: 30 | CAT-Q: 139 | Aspie Quiz: 116/200 (84% probability of being atypical)