Essay revised, Rejection and Asperger's Syndrome

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MikeH106
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22 Aug 2009, 8:03 pm

I've finished updating my essay, which you can read here:

Rejection and Asperger's Syndrome

A few things I touch on are: the meaning of an Asperger's diagnosis, how rejection alone can cause Asperger's Syndrome, and how many 'symptoms' of AS are actually beneficial traits.


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SplinterStar
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23 Aug 2009, 12:12 am

You made a good point or twelve. Rejection is a huge part of being AS... But you really seem unhappy with labels in general. I'll do you one better. I'll become a doctor and create a "neurotypical function" scale that goes up from where the autistic scale leaves off. Then you'd have material for twenty more essays.



the_phoenix
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23 Aug 2009, 12:28 am

Excellent essay!



Greentea
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23 Aug 2009, 2:43 am

Special interests and lack of interest in relationships can very well be (mal?)adaptive reactions to constant and massive rejection. And they're indeed the factors experts observe the most in order to diagnose AS.

However, the massive and constant rejection are an intermediate stage only. Before them, there is poor reciprocity. Before that, there's lack of social intuition (which causes the poor reciprocity). And before that, there's a neurological difference causing the lack of social intuition. It's the neurological difference which is called AS, not the reactions to rejection.


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MikeH106
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23 Aug 2009, 6:10 am

Rejection doesn't always have to be caused by lack of reciprocity or poor social intuition. Even a willingness to challenge norms considered unjust can result in rejection by unsympathetic peers, depending on which group you belong to:

"A team of enlightened scholars will respond differently to someone than a gang of hoodlums. Medieval plays will attract different audiences than rock concerts. A diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome can say just as much about the group to which one belongs -- and sometimes inevitably belongs -- as the patient."

I might end up sending this essay to Alex, so if you don't like it, I want to know why! :)


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Greentea
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23 Aug 2009, 7:14 am

True, but beside my point.


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Ligea_Seroua
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23 Aug 2009, 7:59 am

What is the essay for? Are you trying to get published in journal?


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0_equals_true
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23 Aug 2009, 8:55 am

As a scientific theory it is weak. However I take you point about people getting diagnosed on traits, which can be resultant of other issues. This is nothing new and applies to all conditions.

One of the major flaws of you theory is it fails to address why the rejection is more likely to take place (assuming it is which is still under question). Whereas ASD offers a possible explanation.



MikeH106
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23 Aug 2009, 9:09 am

0_equals_true wrote:
As a scientific theory it is weak.

I disagree. You comment:

Quote:
One of the major flaws of you theory is it fails to address why the rejection is more likely to take place (assuming it is which is still under question). Whereas ASD offers a possible explanation.

If you'll look more closely, I do address this right below the diagram:

"How can a diagnosis lead to rejection? For one, children and their parents have already expressed frustration with namecalling and bullying."

"On a side note, what else can lead to rejection? It could be anything: glasses, motor clumsiness, a slightly unusual appearance or voice characteristic, introversion, bold nonconformity, high intelligence, an interest in advanced subjects, or a willingness to challenge social norms with new ideas."


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23 Aug 2009, 9:24 am

I liked the essay. I thought it was very well written.

It is true. There's a lot of room for opinion with Aspergers as well as other disorders out there. I also have been diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and there are times I'm too tired to keep up with life. I'll often make the joke that I need to go see someone and fake ADHD to get the ritalin. It would be very easy to do because it's all opinion, and if I just read the criteria for diagnosis, I can still honestly give the proper examples in my life as to help coax any diagnosis I want because a lot of this stuff is normal stuff. Anyway, I'd rather them have a lot of fun with Aspergers over ADHD (especially with children) because there isn't an amphetamine cocktail to treat Aspergers.

You might also consider submitting your essay to the APA or maybe a group of people who are specifically working on revising the DSM criteria.


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MikeH106
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23 Aug 2009, 9:48 am

Thank you, Tantybi. :)


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23 Aug 2009, 9:10 pm

It is not a good essay.

It appears to me as though the author lacks knowledge and understanding of the subject matter.

It is unbalanced on the whole, as it creates a picture that AS may not be real at all.

It is almost entirely speculative, with none of the speculations substantiated or even given quantitative estimates where it would be appropriate. This is particularly problematic since many of these speculations are counter intuitive.



MikeH106
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23 Aug 2009, 9:27 pm

pandd wrote:
It appears to me as though the author lacks knowledge and understanding of the subject matter.

I've read Hans Asperger's original publications and excerpts of books by Liane Willey, Temple Grandin, and Tony Attwood, and have even exchanged emails with Tony Attwood directly.

I was diagnosed at age sixteen, and since then I've gained a good amount of experience interacting with others on the autistic spectrum -- and believe me, some of them were almost completely normal.

Quote:
It is unbalanced on the whole, as it creates a picture that AS may not be real at all.

That's not what the essay states. Whether or not anyone has AS is a matter of opinion, but that doesn't mean AS might not exist.

Quote:
It is almost entirely speculative ...

As most theories are!

Quote:
with none of the speculations substantiated or even given quantitative estimates where it would be appropriate.

Quantitative estimates aren't necessary for a valid argument.

Quote:
This is particularly problematic since many of these speculations are counter intuitive.

Not everything that is counterintuitive is wrong.

Thank you for being honest. I'll continue listening for suggestions on how to improve the essay.


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rathernotsay
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23 Aug 2009, 9:30 pm

I understand ASD to be a developmental disorder caused by some deviation in neurological function not as a result of environmental factors. They only expose the condition.



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23 Aug 2009, 10:38 pm

I don't have any input on your essay but I just wanted to say that I admire your ability to take criticism as well as you do. It really is inspiring. =)



pandd
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23 Aug 2009, 10:47 pm

MikeH106 wrote:
I've read Hans Asperger's original publications and excerpts of books by Liane Willey, Temple Grandin, and Tony Attwood, and have even exchanged emails with Tony Attwood directly.

I was diagnosed at age sixteen, and since then I've gained a good amount of experience interacting with others on the autistic spectrum -- and believe me, some of them were almost completely normal.

Either comprehensive understanding of the subject matter is conveyed in the text, or not. No matter what you do or do not know or understand, the fact remains that the text indicates a lack of understanding and knowledge of the subject matter.
pandd wrote:
It is unbalanced on the whole, as it creates a picture that AS may not be real at all.

Quote:
That's not what the essay states.

I asserted that the essay creates a picture. Texts can be misleading by omission (failing to properly present the other side, failing to contextualize with quantifying indicators, etc). You are asserting an argument that instances of AS are simply constructed from or caused by rejection, thus explaining AS as not a real neurological difference. You posit by necessary implication of your assertion (that you are not necessarily claiming that such neurological AS does not exist), that you do not necessarily accept that such cases exist. You fail to include any information that would generally support the existence of such instances.

This creates an entirely unbalanced picture where the essay is consistent with and encourages a belief that AS may not even be real. This is not an accurate balanced representation of reality. It is also very insulting to those of us who know very well that we are characterized by a very real neurological difference with profound and pervasive implications for every day life, and that rejection did not cause it.
Quote:
Whether or not anyone has AS is a matter of opinion, but that doesn't mean AS might not exist.

No, whether or not someone has AS is a matter of fact. Whether some observer recognizes or believes someone to have AS is a matter of their opinion.
pandd wrote:
It is almost entirely speculative ...

Quote:
As most theories are!

I was referring to your essay, not your “theory”. The extent to which counter intuitive speculation is included and relied on, without any compelling argument to back it up, gives no cause whatsoever to find your assertions likely, or your point of view well argued.
Quote:
Quantitative estimates aren't necessary for a valid argument.

That is utterly irrelevant, not least of all because the arguments I am criticizing are inductive.
Quote:
Not everything that is counterintuitive is wrong.

Nothing that I have stated posits or relies on such a premise, so your response is irrelevant. If you cannot determine why positing and relying on premises that appear very unlikely on the surface, and failing to give any reason why these unlikely things would be true, results in a less than compelling argument, then you probably should think about this a bit this a bit a harder.
Quote:
Thank you for being honest. I'll continue listening for suggestions on how to improve the essay.

You are welcome, although from what I can understand from the essay, I doubt that your point of view is realistic, which in itself is a barrier to a comprehensive, coherent and balanced essay that compellingly argues your point of view.