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Asperger Syndrome and affirmative action

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Ariela
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16 Jan 2011, 9:11 pm

Do you think Aspies could be considered as candidates for affirmative action?



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16 Jan 2011, 9:20 pm

It depends on what the individual aspie wants. I wouldn't want anything for myself that would resemble a cure.


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16 Jan 2011, 9:21 pm

I would say yes, of course, because it would help me out. People without an ASD would say no because they think it means they will endure reverse discrimination.



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16 Jan 2011, 9:38 pm

Frankly, I think affirmative action is DUMB! It accomplishes the opposite of what it is supposed to. But HEY, I have been discriminated against for TWO things!

1. I am a white male
2. I have AS.

So I guess I would like it, personally. I'm sick of people ordering food figuring that is good enough for me, if they even order food. I mean my tastes are specific, and I want my OWN food. And if they won't let ME go out to get it, they should give me the option to eat. And they don't care about noise, air, or light, etc... They have social cliques, etc... that you are almost FORCED to get into, but I CAN'T.



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16 Jan 2011, 9:40 pm

ADA gives you the option not to reveal that you have any form of autism.

That in itself can be helpful.


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16 Jan 2011, 10:31 pm

Could be? yes
Would I want that? no
I don't really like the whole affirmative action thing. I read an article about affirmative action in college admissions (while I was waiting to hear back about my college applications) and it really stressed me out. I thought there was no way I was going to get in if they are selecting for racial and economic diversity since I'm a white girl from a middle class family. It turned out just fine, but I don't think people should be discriminated against especially for something they can't do anything about (race, parents' income, ASD/NT). If ASD status is used as criteria for affirmative action and for instance, say I got a job, I would always be wondering if I got it just because of AS, if there was someone out there who was more qualified, but got turned down because they are NT. I would want to get the job because of my skills and qualifications, not based on any particular trait that I have no control over, because then I would feel I didn't earn it.



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16 Jan 2011, 10:55 pm

The point of affirmative action is that people from certain demographic groups are already being discriminated against, and affirmative action is meant to balance that.

There is a lot of fearmongering that this will cause or is causing discrimination against majority groups, but this has never actually happened.



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16 Jan 2011, 11:12 pm

I'm against affirmative action of any kind, mainly because it doesn't solve the problem. I'm not against it for moral reasons, or because I'm against "reverse" discrimination (whatever the hell that means. Isn't the reverse of discrimination "acceptance"? Discrimination is discrimination, no matter how you toss the dice) I'm against it because it's an arrogant approach to problem solving, and that way of thinking never ever works. You can't fix something using methods that have been broken for centuries. That's like using chemotherapy to cure cancer. Sure, it helps a couple people here and there, but most people get screwed over, either they die, or they go broke. It's not meant to fix the problem, and neither is affirmative action. I'm not even sure what affirmative action would entail. If it's food and water and shelter that people need, then why all this affirmative action crap? Isn't it unnecessarily complicated? The happiest people I've ever met have access to the things they need, and everything else falls into place. It seems like a much better approach than telling certain groups they are wrong. Moral BS never solved anything.



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16 Jan 2011, 11:21 pm

Verdandi wrote:
The point of affirmative action is that people from certain demographic groups are already being discriminated against, and affirmative action is meant to balance that.


That is the CLAIM, but not the effect!

Quote:
There is a lot of fearmongering that this will cause or is causing discrimination against majority groups, but this has never actually happened.


Actually, yes it HAS! In fact, I witnessed a person hired SIMPLY because she was NON WHITE! The person that made the decision CLAIMED that it was for "diversity". BULL!! !! !! Out of HUNDREDS of people there, almost ALL were HER race and HER nationality and abbout 1/2 spoke HER language! In fact, a significant part, based on applicants, were FEMALE! The other candidate was JUST as qualified. I was the last to interview them, and DID say they were equal!
So how was HE different?

1. A CITIZEN. The other was NOT!
2. Born HERE, The other was NOT!
3. White.
4. Male.

I have seen this exact thing happen everywhere in my industry.



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16 Jan 2011, 11:24 pm

Mindslave wrote:
I'm against affirmative action of any kind, mainly because it doesn't solve the problem. I'm not against it for moral reasons, or because I'm against "reverse" discrimination (whatever the hell that means. Isn't the reverse of discrimination "acceptance"? Discrimination is discrimination, no matter how you toss the dice) I'm against it because it's an arrogant approach to problem solving, and that way of thinking never ever works. You can't fix something using methods that have been broken for centuries. That's like using chemotherapy to cure cancer. Sure, it helps a couple people here and there, but most people get screwed over, either they die, or they go broke. It's not meant to fix the problem, and neither is affirmative action. I'm not even sure what affirmative action would entail. If it's food and water and shelter that people need, then why all this affirmative action crap? Isn't it unnecessarily complicated? The happiest people I've ever met have access to the things they need, and everything else falls into place. It seems like a much better approach than telling certain groups they are wrong. Moral BS never solved anything.

Discrimination is a part of life and sometimes you have to fight discrimination with discrimination. It's the only way.



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16 Jan 2011, 11:27 pm

Oren wrote:
ADA gives you the option not to reveal that you have any form of autism.

That in itself can be helpful.


Well, any way a person is meaningfully disabled or different may not give you the option to keep it a secret.

If you have a problem with a hand, arm, leg, etc... it may be obvious. For autism, maybe you don't come across as confident, don't look in the eyes, etc...



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16 Jan 2011, 11:44 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Mindslave wrote:
I'm against affirmative action of any kind, mainly because it doesn't solve the problem. I'm not against it for moral reasons, or because I'm against "reverse" discrimination (whatever the hell that means. Isn't the reverse of discrimination "acceptance"? Discrimination is discrimination, no matter how you toss the dice) I'm against it because it's an arrogant approach to problem solving, and that way of thinking never ever works. You can't fix something using methods that have been broken for centuries. That's like using chemotherapy to cure cancer. Sure, it helps a couple people here and there, but most people get screwed over, either they die, or they go broke. It's not meant to fix the problem, and neither is affirmative action. I'm not even sure what affirmative action would entail. If it's food and water and shelter that people need, then why all this affirmative action crap? Isn't it unnecessarily complicated? The happiest people I've ever met have access to the things they need, and everything else falls into place. It seems like a much better approach than telling certain groups they are wrong. Moral BS never solved anything.

Discrimination is a part of life and sometimes you have to fight discrimination with discrimination. It's the only way.


Yeah, but if it's a part of life, and it's inevitable no matter what, where's the fighting part come in? I'm having trouble with that. Why not spend that energy living your life instead of trying to stop a boulder from rolling down a cliff? Fighting fire with fire only creates more fire, and them the fire will spread and the world will be engulfed in flames.



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16 Jan 2011, 11:51 pm

Mindslave wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Mindslave wrote:
I'm against affirmative action of any kind, mainly because it doesn't solve the problem. I'm not against it for moral reasons, or because I'm against "reverse" discrimination (whatever the hell that means. Isn't the reverse of discrimination "acceptance"? Discrimination is discrimination, no matter how you toss the dice) I'm against it because it's an arrogant approach to problem solving, and that way of thinking never ever works. You can't fix something using methods that have been broken for centuries. That's like using chemotherapy to cure cancer. Sure, it helps a couple people here and there, but most people get screwed over, either they die, or they go broke. It's not meant to fix the problem, and neither is affirmative action. I'm not even sure what affirmative action would entail. If it's food and water and shelter that people need, then why all this affirmative action crap? Isn't it unnecessarily complicated? The happiest people I've ever met have access to the things they need, and everything else falls into place. It seems like a much better approach than telling certain groups they are wrong. Moral BS never solved anything.

Discrimination is a part of life and sometimes you have to fight discrimination with discrimination. It's the only way.


Yeah, but if it's a part of life, and it's inevitable no matter what, where's the fighting part come in? I'm having trouble with that. Why not spend that energy living your life instead of trying to stop a boulder from rolling down a cliff? Fighting fire with fire only creates more fire, and them the fire will spread and the world will be engulfed in flames.

Because you can't live your life if nobody will let you. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to discriminate to stop the discrimination against yourself. It's a dog eat dog world :(



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16 Jan 2011, 11:58 pm

Regarding employment under Federal contracts over $10,000, people with a Medical Diagnosis of Aspergers or other ASD are already covered under Section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 that requires Federal Contractors to have affirmative action plans for the disabled. This is also probably the case with other employers that include the disabled in their Affirmative action plans. From what I have seen the ADA definition of Disability that includes ASD's normally applies in Affirmative action plans that include the disabled.

Being covered under ADA "The American Disabilities Act" can be beneficial. For more information on rights afforded in the workplace by ADA:

http://www.ada.gov/



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17 Jan 2011, 12:28 am

2ukenkerl wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
The point of affirmative action is that people from certain demographic groups are already being discriminated against, and affirmative action is meant to balance that.


That is the CLAIM, but not the effect!

Quote:
There is a lot of fearmongering that this will cause or is causing discrimination against majority groups, but this has never actually happened.


Actually, yes it HAS! In fact, I witnessed a person hired SIMPLY because she was NON WHITE! The person that made the decision CLAIMED that it was for "diversity". BULL!! !! !! Out of HUNDREDS of people there, almost ALL were HER race and HER nationality and abbout 1/2 spoke HER language! In fact, a significant part, based on applicants, were FEMALE! The other candidate was JUST as qualified. I was the last to interview them, and DID say they were equal!
So how was HE different?

1. A CITIZEN. The other was NOT!
2. Born HERE, The other was NOT!
3. White.
4. Male.

I have seen this exact thing happen everywhere in my industry.


I'll tell you what: Come up with some statistical studies as to the impact of affirmative action, and we can talk, okay? An anecdote is meaningless.

I won't deny that it has possibly been misused - I would be surprised if it hasn't been misused. I am not sure this is an example of that, but it would be silly to say that everyone always applies policy 100% correctly, right?

But the question is, does this really cause people to lose out on so many jobs that there is actual material suffering?



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17 Jan 2011, 12:40 am

Verdandi wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
The point of affirmative action is that people from certain demographic groups are already being discriminated against, and affirmative action is meant to balance that.


That is the CLAIM, but not the effect!

Quote:
There is a lot of fearmongering that this will cause or is causing discrimination against majority groups, but this has never actually happened.


Actually, yes it HAS! In fact, I witnessed a person hired SIMPLY because she was NON WHITE! The person that made the decision CLAIMED that it was for "diversity". BULL!! !! !! Out of HUNDREDS of people there, almost ALL were HER race and HER nationality and abbout 1/2 spoke HER language! In fact, a significant part, based on applicants, were FEMALE! The other candidate was JUST as qualified. I was the last to interview them, and DID say they were equal!
So how was HE different?

1. A CITIZEN. The other was NOT!
2. Born HERE, The other was NOT!
3. White.
4. Male.

I have seen this exact thing happen everywhere in my industry.


I'll tell you what: Come up with some statistical studies as to the impact of affirmative action, and we can talk, okay? An anecdote is meaningless.

It might seem meaningless but it isn't to the individual who was denied a job because of her skin color. Welcome to reality, though. Discrimination does happen, even to members of the majority. Someone, somewhere, is going to be denied a job for a superficial reason, like shade of skin tone. Qualifications, alone, rarely get someone hired (though they can help) Affirmative action is the only way minorities who are discriminated against because of race can get ahead.

If people would just hire them anyway, affirmative action wouldn't be needed but people tend to discriminate. It's inherent in human nature, so you need the AAP. If it is discrimination, so what? At least it's allowing someone to get ahead. Someone would be getting ahead anyway, no matter what.
Until you show me the perfect society,affirmative action will be necessary, just like it's necessary for people to discriminate against minorities in the first place.

I don't blame minorities for protecting their own interests.