Lack of Confidence (Social Anxiety), Aspergers or Other?

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I am going to describe some social difficulties I have and I would like to know if they are most likely attributed to Social Anxiety, possible Aspergers (or ASD) or other.

I can do initial greetings with people as in "Hi, how are you". "I am fine, how are you" as I was taught to be polite as a child (my parents were very big on manners), however I do not know what to do after this and have trouble carrying on the conversation or find that I do not want to talk to the person because my brain is otherwise occupied and they are interrupting my thoughts.

I do not really know how to make friends as such, I usually wait for people to befriend me so that I can follow their lead (so to speak).

I am never sure if it is appropriate to just call on someone and I do not like people calling round unexpectedly to see me (most of the time). I prefer that they let me know if they are calling around, even if they are calling on the phone.

I have a tendency to interrupt people whilst they are talking although I try not to do this if I can help it as I don't want to be rude. It seems my brain cannot wait for them to finish their sentence before I reply lol. At other times I cannot think of a reply at all so can take ages trying to think of something (anything) to say lol.

I am not good at taking turns in games and I used to hate playing games with other children (when I was young) because they kept changing the rules and did not 'play the game properly'.

Regardless of how lonely I feel sometimes I do not like being disturbed by people when I am working on my hobbies and am not very inviting if people call around whilst I am in the middle of indulging them.

I have actually had people say to me "excuse me, if you don't mind me interrupting your monologue" as I can tend to run off into a speech when talking about something that fascinates me lol.

I also have a bad habit of continually talking about the same thing, over and over and over and over. The problem is I enjoy talking about the same subject but other people get bored with talking about it and want to talk about something else.

I sometimes get told off for skipping the small talk, and can, especially with close friends, just launch straight into conversations without even saying hi or how are you. I assume, as it is a close friendship, that if there is anything up they will just tell me without my needing to ask. I only use "hi, how are you" as a polite greeting for strangers or in very casual conversation (most of the time). Now and again I can ask a close friend how they are, but I have to remind myself to do it.

I do get very nervous in social situations because I have been bullied a lot and I don't want to get bullied again, so it makes me cautious. I am not always a good judge of character and have been made a fool of by people in the past because I trusted individuals I should not have. As a child I used to take people at their word, but as I grew up, I started to realise you could not do that. Just because I don't want to hurt someone that does not mean that they wouldn't hurt me. Unfortunately now I have to take a chance when letting people into my life because without being able to rely on their word it is very very hard to know their true intentions. It sounds paranoid in a way but in another it is not, because despite knowing what I know I will still find myself trusting people to the point of being somewhat gullible.

I am so trusting that I tend to give out more information than I should at times, because of my overly trusting nature, so I have to be a little cautious of it sometimes. If I don't remind myself that not everyone can be trusted, I will fall back into being naive and overly trusting again, each and every time (in short, I never seem to learn my lesson in this way).

My social anxiety is not so much about being embarrassed. I don't really get embarrassed very often and when I do it is fleeting. It really is more a fear of getting hurt again combined with my inability to read peoples intentions. I don't really know what people want from me sometimes and working it out gives me a headache.

I can also drive people mad incessantly rattling on about my favourite hobby a bit like the energiser bunny...on and on and on and on and on and on because it is all I ever think about 24/7 at times when I am really into it (there are days I lose interest in my hobbies for a few hours, or days, or at most a few weeks but it always comes back again).

However, I don't usually take all things literally and I can usually get jokes. I also have very strong and intense emotions, am very sensitive and feel empathy, although I don't always know how to express it. I can also read many hand gestures and many facial expressions, especially on movies, although I can struggle more in real life as things happen so quickly and I don't always have time to work them out.

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So taking that lot into consideration, what am I most likely to have?

PS Yes I am aware you are not drs and cannot diagnose me, but I am looking for opinions.

I didn't read it all, but I just wanted to point out that you can have both Asperger's and social anxiety. In fact it's very common, so it's not an either or.

I have both AS and Social Anxiety.

For me, the problem with social interaction is not so much not knowing how to interact in a socially appropriate way, but rather how to get to the point of being able to interact in any way at all, such as being able to hear and understand what others are saying to me in a social setting or being able to deal with the sensory overload caused by the social setting and the people or being able to avoid the shutdown caused by the sensory overload.

In a quiet environment with one other person, I can communicate my own thoughts pretty well. At least that is my personal perception. I just don't pick up on anything that is not directly said to me in the most direct terms, and I don't think about anything related to what others are thinking about me or each other, and I don't have any thoughts about their thoughts either. I focus on the topic itself to the exclusion of most social cues.

In real-time, I am not capable of having social anxiety. I may feel nervous about interacting with people beforehand, or regretful about the things that I may have done wrong afterwards, but during the interactions, I never feel any anxiety, and there is no anxiety-induced blockade on my communications and also nothing to filter them according to social conventions. I don't think that I have enough of the automatic social-emotional processing to be able to have or develop social anxiety.

I just described a little of what things are like for me during social interactions, if that resonates with any of your experiences.

For me, the biggest blockade to socializing is sensory overload, followed by lack of social-emotional processing in real-time, followed by lack of knowledge of social conventions caused by my lifelong lack of social-emotional processing, followed by lack of remembering to apply any knowledge that I do have, followed by lack of natural ability to apply most of the knowledge that I do remember to apply (this is where NT-faking starts), followed by awkward misapplications that are interpreted by others in ways that I did not intend (this is the problem with NT-faking) and normal behaviors of myself that are also interpreted by others in ways that I did not intend (this is the problme with not NT-faking). I guess that's most of the hurdles in order of appearance on the track.

It could very possible be aspergers because it sounds very similar to me.
I was diagnosed about 15 years ago.
I am very sensitive and am consumed with empathy but don't always know how to show it. It is a myth that people with aspergers cant feel empathy.
I have a great sense of humor and understand most jokes.
Most people that have aspergers do have social anxiety I would think. Unless they live in a cave.
I was bullied very badly as a kid and now I have social anxiety. It is natural to have it after being bullied.

I have some traits of Asperger's in regards to obsessive (although I prefer the word passionate) interests etc also but what I am wondering about is whether my 'Anxiety' could be blocking my ability to read people?

Am I actually not able to read people or do I just lack confidence?
Sometimes I can sense peoples feelings by using my intuition rather than directly reading their body language, but not if I am stressed out as I cannot pick up on what my senses are telling me because they are blocked by my anxious thoughts.
Have I forgotten how to socialise because I have been isolated for so long (been a bit of a recluse other than online for the last 10 years).

I had problems socialising as a child, so it has always been with me but I am not sure where my social difficulties came from back then. I do know that psychologists I saw as a child told me (after running some tests but I don't remember what for) that I was intellectually and morally advanced for my age (beyond my years) but that I was 'highly sensitive and emotionally immature'. Could that have affected my ability to mix as although I was the same chronological age as my peers I was not at the same stage of development as they were?

Did the years of bullying then compound that, given my sensitivity, and create the social anxiety, which now stops me from being able to read people because I am too stressed out to 'sense' what they are thinking/feeling?

I have a feeling I am going to have to actually go out and experiment lol.

I do have sensitivities mostly to crowded places (too much noise and activity), bright sunlight, tags in clothing, certain materials, certain medications and chemicals and so on. However I can sometimes shut out external stimuli by either wearing headphones, sunglasses and/or mentally blocking it out by retreating into my head so that I am not so aware of what is going on around me.

The only thing I struggle to shut out is the sound of a piece of machinery buzzing. It drives me nuts lol.

Thank you to everyone for their replies.

I'm no expert, but I'll bold the ones I can relate to, and I suspect they're relevant to autism:

You sound like you might be on the spectrum.

As far as it goes: I sometimes get jokes. My emotions can be strong and intense, although I can't identify very many of them. I am sensitive to other people's emotions (to the point of feeling/echoing them at times) and it's usually very uncomfortable. I have an easier time with body language and facial expressions in TV shows and movies, and with people I know well, than I do with most people. And I totally relate to things happening too fast that I can't work them out in time.

I don't really have much social anxiety. Mostly what I do have comes from a lifetime of people basically blowing up at me when I try to assert myself, and Zoloft seems to have taken much of that away. I thought I was getting better at finding ways around confrontation without meaning to cause one, but the truth is that it was more I was nervous about causing them and avoiding speaking my mind as fully as I would have otherwise.

My understanding from reading about the topic is that it is possible for social anxiety to interfere with your ability to read people. Joe90 says she is able to read people but her anxiety keeps her from applying it, which is one possibility.

Bumble, almost everything you described in your first post reflects just how I feel regarding social interactions. The only exception is that I don't feel nervousness or anxiety per se when in social environments. And I'm an officially diagnosed aspie, if that helps you at all.

As far as the anxiety parts go, the psychologist I went to told me that the slight anxiety I feel in social situations could be very mild social anxiety problems. What I reported to him followed the patterns, anyway. So I guess if you ramp that up a bit, it would be close to what you described and would be called social anxiety.

Indeed, I was thinking the same as I can be so anxious that I become more focused on my anxiety and my own thoughts than paying attention to what people are doing. I also get highly bored when socialising and disappear off into my own head sometimes lol unless I am with someone who particularly interests me.

I can be a bit of a highly strung individual who does not always like socialising. For example I can remember when I was working a few years ago. There was very little to do in the department that day (it was shop work) and most staff were standing around chitty chatting. I can remember getting so fed up with just standing there chitty chatting that I actually stomped up to a manager and said "excuse me, but have you actually got some work for me to do?". It is just that I figured if I was going to stand around being bored all day I may as well go home and be bored if there is nothing else to get on with lol.

I have tried socialising with my neighbours but all they seem to do is gossip, so although I have spoken to them, I tend to avoid them because gossip is really not my thing.

I am not socially anxious in all situations though so maybe I should start with those to see if I can read people or if I am missing something. My support worker says I misinterpret people. They also asked me if I had heard of something called Asperger's and if I thought I could have it, which is partly why I started to consider it, but I am not sure I agree with them lol. I am not sure I do misinterpret people...not more than anyone else anyway (misunderstandings can happen).

Anyway not all social interactions pose a problem for me. For example I am fine with asking a shop assistant where the tinned sardines are (or whatever I am looking for), I can chat to the delivery man when he delivers my shopping and so on. It is when I have to interact on a deeper level that problems set in. I am fine with surface interactions. So that might be the best way to test it out lol. My social anxiety also wears off once I get to know someone a little bit (usually) but I can still have problems holding on to friends and relationships. They dislike many of my habits and that causes problems for me (ie my various quirks seem to drive them away and they get fed up with me). All the same I suppose I could 'get to know' someone so that I can relax around them and see what happens in terms of my being able to read them.

I have tried to socialise online as I get no social anxiety on the internet, but it usually ends in my being driven off of websites by people because I annoy them with my posting style. So that particular pathway has not worked out well for me in terms of socialising and making friends. Even when I am not anxious I seem to abysmally fail at socialising, however I shall focus on that another time. For the moment I want to know if I can read people or not.

Also as a child I could mix to a degree, just not with children of my own age. I could, however, walk up to adults and start nattering away. I was known for wandering off only to be returned by a stranger some time later. My mum would say to the stranger "Sorry about that love, she wandered off" and apparently the stranger would reply with something along the lines of "Don't worry about it love, we have been having the most fascinating conversation" lol. I had a good vocabulary for my age and tended to prefer to talk to 'grown-ups', but not my peers. I did not fit in with my peers and was usually bullied or rejected by them. Ie As a very young child I had a twitch, but the other children would run away from me and tell people that I was pulling faces at them. I was not, I could not control the twitch back then (don't get that twitch now though). I also tended to be intellectually inclined and used to confuse people. Ie when at University I would explain my ideas only to see 5 blank faces looking at me and to receive the reply "We don't see how that relates". I even gave them an essay that had been marked with an A and about which the tutor had said was "Beautifully written and very well argued" but got the same response, so I have kind of given up on trying to get most people to understand what I am talking about and have tried to drop it down a notch or two so I am less confusing.

I also used to speak very formerly without developing a regional accent but people kept saying that I sounded posh or stuck up, so I also dropped that down a notch too and now irritate myself because my speech is too colloquial and my accent is too regional or I do not pronounce my words properly (ie I say 'gonna' instead of 'going'....I really hate that as its sounds...well, it is not good English and it does not sound nice. I.e 'I am going to the local shop, would you like anything?' sounds much nicer to me than 'I'm gonna go to the shop, you want anyfing from there'....good god that just sounds awful to me). It is even irritating me in regards to my typing as my grammar is becoming awful lately. But when it comes to fitting in it is a good idea not to stand out too much in certain ways.

I am also overly verbose so have to spend a lot of time trying to be more concise, otherwise I get complained at for it, especially in regards to the length or number of my posts online (sometimes there are a lot of variables to be covered, or I have an afterthought and cannot always edit it in so another post is required so that I can complete my line of thinking...I hate not being able to complete my line of thinking!).

Another thing people seem to hate is my continual editing of my posts. I have convergence issues (eye problem) and I don't always spot my errors during my first (or even second or third) proof reading. The result is that I have to keep going back to make corrections because I dislike sounding illiterate.

I also digress a lot at times which I still have a bad habit of doing but I have made various changes through out my life to try and fit in and still find it hard to make friends etc.

The other option is stop trying to fit in and become a recluse instead lol.

How can I go about setting up an experiment to see if I am interpreting or reading people correctly?

Is it acceptable to ask them after I have made my reading if my reading of their body language is accurate?

How else am I going to know if I am reading them correctly? What if I think I am reading them accurately but I am not, for example?

I do know from times in my past, where I have thought someone is annoyed because they looked like they had a frown on their face, I have asked them if they are annoyed and what they are annoyed over. However they will say they are not annoyed so I will ask them if they are 'sure' because sometimes people will not always say what is on their mind. After which they do then get annoyed and snap at me for pestering them. I can tell upset from happy (very obvious) but am not good at spotting the difference between contemplating, concentrating and annoyed or angry...they all visually look the same to me. Without other information to guide me I cannot be sure what their facial expression is saying exactly. Usually words to the effect of "bloody hell this is annoying" help. But this could be my lack of confidence or my tendency to over analyse things.

I may be able to sense it intuitively but not always, it depends if my intuition is working that day or not lol.

Bored can also look a bit like fed-up, which also looks like annoyed and angry (a bit frowny really, frowns frowns everywhere!). I am better with tone of voice although sometimes to me someone being sympathetic sounds more patronising than anything. I have a support worker who, when I mention that I don't feel well today, replies with "awwwww bless". This always sounds darn patronising, although I am sure she is only trying to be nice in her own way as that makes the most logical sense (she is a support worker who is trying to help). The same goes for when I used to ring support lines for my depression. I don't ring them any more because people always sound so patronising on them even though I know they are just trying to be supportive and it irritates me lol.

Anyway, do I need a second person with me to check if my interpretations are correct? If so that may be tricky as I am not good at socialising and have no real life friends (I have a few online contacts but that is it). And even then how do I know if their interpretation of the situation is the correct one?

For example, several weeks ago, a neighbour popped around for a chat and asked if he could come in for a few moments, so I let him through the door. He stayed and chatted for a while and then on his way out kissed me on the cheek when he was leaving. I am not sure what he meant by this to be honest (I have been trying to figure it out) and I wondered if it might have been helpful if a second person had been with me so that they could have perhaps given me a hint or something lol. But what if they had misread it and come to the wrong conclusion or something?

I do not really know what to say around that neighbour now, although he seems very sweet (ie the other day I had run out of cigarettes and he bought me a pack round so that I had some), because I do not quite know what he is trying to say to me sometimes in certain ways. I do not know how to take him.

Perhaps I am just too nervous or something or I am over analysing.

This is going to be tricky lol.

Should I just relax and go with the flow and see what happens and hope I don't get screamed at by people again for annoying them? I always get screamed at for annoying people.

Last edited by bumble on 01 Dec 2011, 6:12 am, edited 4 times in total.

I understand jokes, I am not a literal thinker, I can understand body language and tone of voice and facial expressions, I can understand other's emotions, and I have a good TOM, but even having all those things what most Aspies don't have doesn't seem to get me far with interaction, because it's knowing what to say what is the problem. I have trouble giving feedback, or suggestions, and I mostly have trouble with asking questions. And sometimes I know what I should say, but I'm always scared to do it, but I really do not know why I'm so afraid to do it. Must just be a Social Phobia thing.

I am fine with asking questions even in real life. If I need to know something I will simply approach the person and ask them, although it does depend on the situation. Ie If I need directions I will walk up to a complete stranger and ask without any problem. If I need information about a certain product I will speak to the sales clerk or company to find out, but when it comes to trying to figure out what my neighbour above meant I am too shy to go and ask that question directly.

I do not view the first two instances as socialising. I am merely seeking information not trying to make friends. I really just want to find something out and once I have found what I am looking for I have no need to stay in the social discourse with them. Neither do I care what they are thinking about me as long as I get the information I am looking for. I am merely on a mission to get facts and that is my focus. The same goes when shopping in a supermarket, for example. If I walk up to an assistant to ask where the tinned sardines are I am focused on doing my shopping and finding the sardines, not on making friends or 'socialising' as such. So it is not a problem for me to just go and ask.

When it comes to trying to make friends though, that is very different, as then whether or not people like you can make a difference.

I believe that social phobia can manifest as you describe when it comes to being too nervous to ask, but I am not affected by my social anxiety in that way. Although people will assume that I am, as if I am nervous around them, they think I am nervous around everyone in every social context. However, as I specified above, some contexts that people seem to define as 'social' I do not (asking an assistant a question is seen as a social interaction whereas I see it as seeking out and obtaining information instead).

I am mostly anxious when it comes to trying to form friendships, or around people who are important to my personal life in some way. I also get nervous around therapists/drs/psychiatrists and whilst giving presentations in front of a room full of people, if (and only if), I am new to a subject and am not confident in my ability in that area. On the other hand I can work a reception job without being nervous of people as I am very confident in my ability or skill set in that way. I do not find it easy to make friends but I do know how to appear friendly and polite and can do it well for limited periods of time (Ie smile, be helpful, do not speak in a harsh tone of voice and so on), although it is very tiring because I am basically wearing a mask in the process. It drains me of energy, as does socialising in general.

In the staff room at lunch time, with the other employees, however, I am like a rabbit caught in the headlights of a speeding truck. I really do not know what in the hell I am doing as now the rules are not so clearly defined and can change from one situation to the next. Just as I think I have got them, they go and change on me, and throw me out. I used to have this problem when playing with other children as a child. They would keep changing the rules of the game and in the end I would throw a tantrum and refuse to play with them because they were 'not playing the game properly' lol.

It is very confusing when the rules keep changing lol. I have to ad lib and even in drama class, ad libbing was my weak spot.

Oh aye, I managed to make it though an A level drama course (along with Media Studies and English Literature) and pass so I can fake this social stuff by acting but if I have to fly by the seat of my pants....oh hell, someone save me lol.

I am OK at asking them sorts of questions. In fact, I quite enjoy it because it helps with my social confidence. But questions what you're supposed to ask in a conversation is what I seem to find difficult, for example say if somebody was saying that they were going into hospital to have an operation, the appropriate questions to ask all come flooding into my mind, like a little voice in my head is saying, ''go on, ask her what day she's having her operation'', but I'm too afraid to ask, so I just hope for the best that they will automatically tell me without me having to ask anything, but sometimes they don't always, so as a last resort I manage to get the question out, if not then I just empathise and say, ''oh well, good luck, mate.''

I really do not know why asking personal questions in a conversation is so difficult.

I am ok with asking those kinds of questions as well, as to me, they seem to be reasonable questions to ask and I may or may not be curious depending how close the friendship is or depending on other factors (is it likely to have an affect on my own personal world, which makes me sound more self absorbed than I mean to be, as genuine concern will often accompany it if my brain is not too tied up in it's own little world that day. Some days I forget to ask because I am lost in my own thoughts (usually about one of my hobbies) and then feel guilty afterwards as not asking was inconsiderate of me).

Most questions I am fine with, questions are not much of a problem and I am not backwards in coming forwards when I have a question or two at all. It's making on going conversation when no questions have been asked or no questions are relevant or come to mind. I do not know how to keep conversations going other than to ramble on about my interests as I have very little else that I am knowledgeable about (I am not a general knowledge person by any means, I pick a favourite subject and zoom in on it so I am more the type to specialise in a field than anything else).

I struggle with small talk (unless it's a learned script I picked up from watching people) and if I do get talking to someone I do not know what to do next in the sense that I do not know how to move the relationship forwards to something more than just a casual conversation in passing or how to keep the conversation going. So most casual conversations I start end in one of two ways...Either I get told to shut up because I am rambling on about something the other person is not interested in (usually in more detail than they care to know about) or the conversation dies out because I have nothing to talk about.

I will often stand or sit there trying to think what I am supposed to do next and I can never figure it out, I really do need the other person to take the lead. Even when I am home and relaxed I still cannot always figure out what I was supposed to have done unless someone tells me. By this point I am thinking they must be thinking I am an idiot because I feel like an idiot myself. On occasion I can figure out what I should done many hours after the fact but by then the moment has passed and I have missed it. I also get that with thinking of things to say. I cannot always think of a reply to someone in the moment, but 3 hours later one will come to me. This is why I prefer talking on email for example, as I have time to think up my reply rather than having to think up a reply quickly in the moment (slow brain in that way).

I also get very nervous around people who do not appear friendly or whom have a quick temper because I do not handle conflict well. I am very timid and if someone shows any sign that I interpret as aggressive I can become very uneasy very quickly but that has to do with being raised in a house with a violent rather and siblings and often being on the receiving end of their aggression.

I am not very good at standing up for myself either. When I was bullied at school I became a very good sprinter because I always used to run if someone came at me with their fist.

Every so often I get a surge of confidence after giving myself a pep talk, go out and try to socialise and every single time it will eventually go wrong one way or another. Either I end up being bullied, I end up not making friends with anyone and when I do make friends they get annoyed with my quirks and go away (ie they get annoyed over the fuss that results when I lose my tickle (piece of material I like to rub...it is soothing), my need to always have my the same flavoured ice-cream with a movie (different film) every Saturday without fail lol, my tendency to talk about the same thing over and over again, my tendency to play the same song over and over again when listening to music, my need to do things a certain way or in a certain order sometimes and if they catch me talking to myself (which I do because it is soothing and not because I am talking to things that are not there...ie I don't hear voices or have hallucinations) then they think I am mental or have gone round the bend (that is what I am told, not what I think they think lol).

The problem is also on my side, and not just about what people say or do, because when it comes to my quirks I get very upset if they are disturbed or changed. Not in the sense that I think something bad is going to happen as with OCD, (and I struggle to explain this in a way that people can understand to please bear with me) but I get genuinely distressed emotionally and either shut down and get very depressed or end up blowing a fuse and degrading into a full blown tantrum (which results in my screaming at myself (not other people) for hours sometimes if I am particularly upset) instead. People think I am making a fuss about nothing and accuse me of being either selfish or over dramatic. What I cannot make them understand is that it really upsets me, but I cannot tell anyone why. It just does.

Also I do not understand why they need to make such a fuss over my having my quirks. I mean I am not telling other people how to do things etc as I really have no desire to control others, I prefer that they do what makes them happy in a way that makes them happy, but they seem to want me to do everything their way or drop my quirks because to them they are dysfunctional or have no real meaning or purpose (they are functional, have a purpose and have meaning to me though, as I am happier with them). I get very exhausted trying to be like other people and I get so upset with the world barging into my life when I am happily pottering around doing my own little thing in my own little way and trying to change it because they don't think what I am doing is what I should be doing or the way I should be doing it.

In all fairness I often find myself wondering why other people get so upset over some of the things they do as it makes no sense to me either, so sometimes it is mutual. It is not the quirks themselves that cause me distress but the fact that people keep trying to change them. If they leave them alone I am fine.

It is becoming impossible to find friendships and relationships between that lot and I am frustrated and tired now.