A theory

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I am not on the spectrum. I have similarities to people on the spectrum but my social difficulties are actually to do with a history of bullying. It is social anxiety but it's an atypical presentation.

Why?

1 I am not ego driven and don't believe in all this superior/inferior bollocks. I have an ego but I am actually not dominated by it. Bulling works by stripping away a persons confidence or sense of self worth. I don't believe in things like worthlessness so the bullies can't attack me that way. Nor can they strip my confidence as my skill level and results that I achieve speaks for itself. So they use other tactics...they ostracise me, socially isolate me in order to cause me emotional distress that way. It is pure spite not because there is something wrong with me but because they are jealous of me, or they feel threatened by me so they need to push me down to the bottom of the social pecking order so they can feel better about themselves. This means I am unlikely to have the usual self esteem problems but will still experience emotional distress due to forced isolation.

My isolation is not by choice. Ergo it causes me distress and is negatively impacting my mental health (my therapist is correct about that...my situation is driving the problem).

2 I am willing to do many activities with a companion, I have an exhaustive list, so my being boring is not likely to be a reason not to spend time with me or want to be my friend. I would play tennis, play tenpin bowling, go to a live gig for a band I liked, go to the theater, go to the cinema, walk by coast, walk in the countryside, dance (prefer ballroom to night clubs), ice skating play board games, go kayaking, go horse riding, go out for a meal, go to an astronomy evening, go diving, go water skiing, go climbing, ride roller coasters, go to a museum, go to a pub for a game of pool, play pin ball, play 2p machine at a gaming arcade, go line dancing (dad used to do that) and so on.

There is no reason to avoid me for being boring as I am sure out of the list I have listed above (which is by no means complete) there is something the other person can find enjoyable and that I am willing to do.

I have sensitivities yes, but I can put up with them to do something I find very enjoyable. Ie a fair ground is noises and crowded but I can grit my teeth to cope with that in order to enjoy the experience the rides.

My sensitivities are similar to autism...but don't seem as severe in the sense they wouldn't stop me from going to a crowded place if I wanted to go badly enough even if I did find it uncomfortable in some ways.

As for subjects to talk about anything but what so and so said to so and so and the latest from the last issue of some gossip celebrity magazine, although I will listen to that kind of thing for a while if they are willing to be fair and let me prattle on about something else for a while allowing with both of us to taking turns unless we can find mutual interests to discuss. I enjoy two way conversations and feel frustrated when conversations are too onesided either because the other person cannot keep up with the speed of my brain, my tangents or are not able to reciprocate in regards to knowledge and understanding. It's like trying to play tennis with someone who can't hit the ball back again. Alternatively I have a long list of interests I am willing to either discuss or listen to the other person talking about (sometimes I'd rather listen quietly than do the talking) such as parapsychology, cross stitching and other needle crafts, nutrition, exercise and physical fitness (weight training, yoga, aerobics/cardiovascular exercise), history, aracheaology, palaeontology, dancing, old movies, painting, sketching (check out drawspace by brenda hodinott), pottery, evolution, fossils, geology and geological processes, jigsaw puzzles, psychology and if I am attracted to person sex and so on.

There are plenty of things I am willing to talk about or listen to the other person talk about or ask the other person questions about if its a topic that fascinates me. What I have is trouble with the following:

Them: How are you?

Me: I am ok, how are you?

Them: I am fine.

Me: Um.....that's good. Are you doing anything interesting this weekend

Them: goin' clubbin' wiv me mates

Me: Oh, where are you going?

Them: *name of nightclub here* (sorry I don't know any)

Me: Oh, that's nice.

Conversation ends....

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3 I am not an unkind person and try to go out of my way to be helpful but I am introverted and also hate spending large amounts of time on my pc because I get bored sitting down and typing incessantly. Ergo I socialise less on the computer than I would in person if I had a friend who could nip round and talk to me whilst I do the washing up at the same time (nothing gets done when I am on the computer all the time). I do need time to rest from social interaction to recharge.

4 A history of being bullied means I am wary of people and am aware that they are being deliberately cruel and abusive towards me. Such as when people posted that I was schizophrenic online and people started sending me pity emails and advice on how to get help for some imaginary condition I don't have. Other people avoided me because of the malicious gossip.

The malicious gossip online that has occurred on some sites and the flamming designed by people on those sites to make me look like I was the instigator of trouble when in actual fact they started the flame war and are not willing to be reasonable at all drive compatible people away from me. This means that I attract people who are incapable of holding down a rational stable relationship such as the drug dude. Add to that that I don't cope well with bullying and respond badly to it (emotional reaction the bullies are aware of and seem to lap up as causing a person unnecessary pain seems to get them off some how...it disgusts me and i have zero respect for bullies or their opinions, but it gets them off all the same) does not help and further reinforces their assertion that I mentally ill.

I don't have the symptoms of mental illness though as my problem is a reaction to my circumstances and not a problem with my self esteem. People assume Aspergers because I have intense interests (I am passionate about the things I love), used to like routine (not so much now as I hate being tied to the clock and need to do things when I feel inspired not because it's written on some schedule, I only used routine to ground me when I was feeling ill with brain fog etc and which has worn off since going paleo, although i did like some routine as a child I grew up in a stressful home and I can cling to routine when I am stressed out and living a violent atmosphere or complete chaos), and understand things like two way conversation. I can also tell when someone is getting bored these days, I might have missed it as a child (I had a tendency to barge in to conversations and take over a little bit...got excitable I did) and so on. I often end up doing what others want to do rather than doing what I want actually. I am also considerate and always ask people what their favourite food and drink is if they are visiting and in no way would I leave someone in distress if I can help them (sometimes I can't, I am sorry).

The people I met that were all acting weird about the self hatred thing (outlined in my last thread) were either from that site or had interests that meant it was likely they have used it. The site has a local group where I was attacked in the sense that people were allowed to post untrue claims about me whilst I was blocked in such a way as to stop me from correcting what was being said. If I tried to address the problem I was accused of causing trouble. The people in the group live in my area....

Why is everyone so concerned or determined I should hate myself...it is weird. Why would someone want to think that someone hates themselves? Again its a bit weird. If they enjoy such a notion they are hardly likely to be a kind person now are they? And their opinion is unlikely to be trustworthy. So why should I listen to what bullies have to say and let it affect my sense of self or self esteem? However, that does not stop me from becoming stressed or emotionally distress by their abuse all the same. I am aware these people are being abusive towards me and are driving people away from me either by spite, gossip or by upsetting me until I react in such a way that frightens people away because they are not aware of what the bullies are doing and can't understand my behaviour. They just see a crazy person acting oddly and the bullies reinforce that by posting about my mental health conditions and rubbish like my refusal to get help (which is untrue).

I have some traits of aspergers but not enough that I am secure that I have the disorder without the presence of the emotional distress of being bullied going on in my life.

I'd like to know what my social skills are like around educated reasonable sane people who are not trying to socially slap me down because they have insecurity issues.

Until I have a chance to socialise more with rational people who are capable of being stable enough to form relationships (without throwing things at me in temper like the last person I was with did or without saying things like "if you don't give me what I want I will leave the relationship" which is basically a form of emotional blackmail to get ones own way) I won't know if I actually do lack social skills or if I am merely responding to bullies or reflecting the lack of stability of the people around me (those with mental illness such as my mother).

They are very distressing to deal with and can have the affect of wearing your health down as they drag you into hell with them (no offense meant to those with mental illnesses etc but try to consider how hard it is for other people to cope with you once in a while. As much as they might want to help you with your feeling of worthlessness for example there is nothing they can do if you are not willing to consider alternative perspectives to your own opinions of yourself. Rather than unloading on them perhaps you should seek out professional help from a therapist. They have lives too and I am pretty sure they would like to be able to get on with them without having to hold your hand every 2 seconds. This does not mean they don't want to help you now and again...but it is not easy for them. I know as I have cared for a physically disabled mentally ill parent).

I am not entirely happy with it being Aspergers although i do have obvious traits. It may well be that my problem relating with people has to do with my alternative belief system and different way of seeing the world, which is not necessarily an autistic trait. Even NT introverts can be sensitive and have intense interests. I am willing to accept other people have different beliefs to me, I know they do, I am oh so painfully aware of it, but it seems other people are rarely able to accept or understand that I have different beliefs to them.

My therapist called these people empathic as she said they were trying to empathise with me. I call them deluded as they are responding to their own beliefs about how I should be feeling or thinking and not to what I actually feel. If they were empathic types they would know what I was feeling but they don't. They assume and insist I must be feeling what they say I am or I am in denial. At best these people are clearly delusional, at worst they are bullying me or they are merely confused, but a confused person would be open to considering thta they might be incorrect. All the same empathy has nothing to do with it.

I think my therapist might be wrong....I think the bullying combined with my shyness combined with my difference in thinking style and inability to relate to people on that basis may have resulted in my social isolation and emotional distress.

Something does not fit with Aspergers despite my similarity to it.

Last edited by bumble on 09 Apr 2014, 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think you're an intelligent person who's putting herself in a quandary.

I need to resolve this issue due to the damage it is doing to my mental health. I need healthy relationships and bonds in my life with supportive people who understand me (not that I will always need support from them as I tend to be very independent in most ways but its nice to know the support is there if you should need it and the people in your life genuinely care about you and your welfare), this can't really go on the way it is going.

I am worried about taking on a label that might lead to my being held back in certain ways as I was with the anxiety label. I need intellectual challenges to stimulate me for example but because the drs convinced themselves I had generalised anxiety because I looked nervous when i was talking to them, my hands would shake and I would have trouble spitting my words out (nervous stutter) they assumed that taking on such tasks would be too much for me.

I am dying of boredom here....I spend all day learning about paleo stuff and learning to play piano because I need an intellectual challenge. I get stressed out when I am bored and under stimulated not the other way around (except socially). I even enjoy exams because they intellectually excited me, I do not experience exam stress. Yet the world holds me back thinking that I won't be able to cope because of the anxiety label.

I need the stimulation to feel alive.

I got stressed out and started developing attention problems at school (chronic daydreaming) because the pace of the work was too slow and the teacher would not speed it up. I got fed up with waiting for everyone else to catch so I could move on. I asked for harder work but the teacher would not give it to me until the other children were at the same level. I become bored and fidgety and couldn't pay attention to the work. Alongside bullying (because of my level of ability) I eventually stopped going to school out of frustration and initial failed my GCSE's due to not actually having completed any of the work. I stopped bothering. When I went back to college to retake them my tutor came up to me and said "how in the hell did you ever fail your GCSEs in the first place". The tutor labelled me as extremely intelligent. I need an outlet for that and society won't give me one. it keeps holding me back like it did at school with silly assumptions and other peoples insecurities.

I am concerned that an Aspergers label will have similar effect....

I think you're a likeable person.

I'm sorry you were bullied--one has to transcend that, though. You have the power to prove the bullies wrong. I was bullied as well. I think, alas, that the state of "bully-victim" is something of a "rite of passage" that all must go through at some time. Children and teenagers adhere to the social-Darwinist model--more than adults, usually, whose philosophy has been molded and modified by maturity.

If I were about your age, your interest in archaeology, alone, would whet my appetite for your acquaintanceship. I had an all-abiding interest in the Descent of Man--still do, if any sort of impetus is placed my way. Neanderthals were a special interest when I was about 13.

I've gone through periods when I became immersed in my problems, and, alone, had to find that ladder to get out of that Abyss. I believe you possess that power, for you haven't lived in any sort of cave. Have you read "Allegory of a Cave?" Very simple, but very pertinent.

Do not put a label on yourself, even if a label has been placed on you. Even if you are diagnosed with Asperger's, it comes in many shapes and sizes. You are YOU, one individual out of 7 billion. You think you Bumble--but perhaps you also gather nectar-influences like a Bumble Bee. There's so much arriving in your head at this time--so much to sort out. I believe, in time, that you will be successful, by and large, in sorting it out. It's a tough process, though.

By the way, my gut impression, borne out of what you've written so far, is that you're not in the Spectrum. Perhaps, you are within the Autistic Phenotype. Obviously, I do not know you well at all--so my "impression" could be an erroneous one.

Please don't wallow--I've wallowed, and it got me nowhere. It's only given me metaphorical and literal headaches.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 09 Apr 2014, 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

I have similar issues. Luckily I haven't been bullied in a long time. After I got bullied I found ways to make myself invisible to bullies. Unfortunately this has also socially isolated me.

Bumble, after reading many of your messages, I've often thought of writing this to you, but never got around to it: I think you would do better in a large urban area if you could manage to move to such an area, You would find all kinds of less boring people people there and a lot more stimulation and variety.

Actually I don't mind rural areas but I may be best moving to a different part of the country. I am not native to Norfolk and I cannot get any help here.

The job center was supposed to be making me an appointment as one of my work related interviews (I am in the disability WRAG group) about making a referral on to the shaw trust to discuss my returning into some kind of employment or retraining but I heard nothing back.

My therapist was supposed to be contacting me by phone about a referral for an assessment for Aspergers and still has not gotten back to me. I don't have another appointment scheduled with her.

I asked for support from a mental health support organisation for my depression about a year ago and never heard back.

No one seems to want to help me. Someone here gave me information about a local autism group but I just feel like I will get the run around from them and I am so depressed I no longer have the energy to keep chasing people. My mood is sinking, I am starting to feel suicidal and NO ONE will help me. Its not like I have not tried, no one is interested in helping. I need a support working...but I don't have one and don't know how to get one. I need someone to advocate for me and make these people DO SOMETHING TO HELP ME.

I hate it here.

I should never have left the midlands where I came from. I was never treated this badly there. Its awful up here.

What you have conveyed is classic bureaucracy. You have to be somewhat persistent--since there are many people in your shoes (as a generalization). You have to call when they don't call. There frequently is a condescending attitude exhibited by those in the bureaucracy--caused by many things--but mostly by a cynical distrust of those who are seeking services.

I truly think you have gifts; it would be a waste (and a pity!) to squander them in any way.

I hope you are successful in obtaining suitable employment as soon as possible.

I have not even had a good night out with anyone since moving here.

If I go to support groups that is not going to give me an enjoyable evening out away from my problems to take my mind off things...its going to be more problems again.

I think I should just end my life and be done with it but I am too cowardice. I can't get any help from anywhere. All I want is a fun night out, a break away from problem after problem for a few hours.

I am worried about the state of my benefits as well as they are due up for review soon and I am in no position to go back to work because I am not being helped by anyone so I am stressed about that. I don't even have any recent training...I have asked and asked as most of my certificates are out of date and as I have not worked in at least 4 years now I have no recent references so I asked for help finding volunteer work and updating my back to work skills but didn't even get that.

I am stuck in a horrible position..

I am going to start making complaints, If I have not got the guts to end my life then I will take my s**t out on the authorities and launcha f*****g war on them..there must be someone who can make these people help...

People should know that there are individuals out there who, with the right help, have a lot to offer and may even be able to work but because they cannot get any support, retraining or help they are not able to. Its not fair to penalise people on benefits when the goverment does nothing to help those who could work find employment.

People should know that people are left without assistance. I shall make a complaint against the well being service in my area as they have just left me depressed, with severe social difficulties, with no social or support network and with no help.

I will complain to whomever I need to complain to at the job center.

I am sick of this. i am launching complaints against these people.

Could you back back to the midlands??? Like that word a lot...midlands:-).... "Up here" doesn't sound as comforting....it sounds like you are out of your natural element...

I don't know what up here or Norfolk is exactly, meaning I do not get the flavor of it, but maybe the reason you are being picked on is even because you are from the midlands, and then it ballooned because this people are bored and petty.. Sometimes it's best in certain situations to just go home....

If I can get back I will. I moved up here to be with someone but it didn't work out and I got stranded up here. Most of the family I was close too is deceased now so I don't have much family anywhere (those that are still alive seem to be too busy feuding to stay in contact with each other, its just easier to stay out of it) so its just me tootling around on my own wherever I live. But I do miss that part of the Country as I lived their for 24 years.

I didn't make any friends there either outside of family (except when I was college, I used to help people with their work and they seemed to think I was hilarious for some reason and kept asking me out. I went out sometimes with them but the friendships failed after college finished. Partly my fault, I'm not very good at staying in touch) but at least people didn't keep talking to me about self hatred. In fact in the 24 years that I lived there no one ever mentioned such a thing. That is why Norfolk is such a culture shock. It's so different up here. I have been here for about 5 years now and I hate it up here.

Beautiful countryside, gorgeous coast, strange culture.

Moving 200 miles across country is an expensive move. When I moved up here I moved in with the person I came up here to be with, but he liked to throw things at me and wave his fist in my face threatening to hit me etc so I moved out into a woman refuge for a bit and then on to where I am living now (one bedroom bungalow in a little village). Moving back to Worcester would require a transfer or finding somewhere to rent (transfer would be better as I would want to exchange my bungalow for another bungalow or flat at least). I could try putting myself on the housing list in that area but I'd have a long wait as I am not classed as priority. Malvern would be better than Worcester itself. At least it has the Malvern Hills and is not a city. It is also close to Worcester itself.

The other option is to see if my aunt is still alive in Stratford Upon Avon but I really doubt it now. She would be very elderly if she is and I don't know her surname so young was I the last time I saw her. I know her only as Aunt Rachel.

Bumble, things are going to change for you...just stay simple and keep your wits about you...stay connected to the incredible beauty of the country and that will help you find your way to where you are going to go.. about being in a strange land which is so beautiful and yet not quite ones home country....there is something intriguing and almost romantic about that...an existential way station on a profound journey... I still miss the river where I grew up, but had to leave that place...I was an alien there, and am an alien here..but this morning laying in bed watching yet another episode of Dexter, something about me got cozy...I developed a momentary relationship with my blanket and just relaxed all the way into my bones....feel I am better connected with my writing today because of it....

Get the hell out of there!

As for whether or not you are autistic, hopefully getting an assessment from a qualified professional will help settle that.

You remind me a lot of myself. The problem isn't so much an internal one (something wrong with you), but the fact that you are not around people who you can relate with. This has been a problem I have had my whole life that has led to profound loneliness, unhappiness, and, for a long time, low self-esteem and low self-worth. People kept telling me I was wrong or stupid. Now I know that I am not. I just need to move to an area where I can have friends, people who accept me, understand me, and like to do the things I like to do. In the mean time, I just keep being me and accept my loneliness. Good luck to you on your journey!

Well, the Aspergers label might have some negative side-effects, but it might be true. From what you have written, it would not exclude it as you have mentioned that you actually had some issues in the past that you managed to get rid of (although I have to mention I do not know you all too well, only from some posts on here). Do not forget that intelligent people are more likely to develop coping mechanisms and techniques to deal with society and the issues that come with AS while getting older. Having AS also does not exclude feeling the need to socialise with people. There are other users on this forum who are feeling lonely and would like to make friends but have troubles.

The school issue you mentioned sounds all too familiar, although I made it in one go. I was utterly bored in classes, daydreaming most of the time and not paying attention, they did not have the right pace, it was way too slow... and it was annoying and highly demotivating!

I believe they make themselves feel better that way, just like bullies make themselves feel better by degrading others in the social rank or isolating them. Seeing others misery (or believing they are feeling misery) probably is something uplifting for them.

If people are not willing to take your advice (after several approaches) or listen to you, ignore them, they are not worth your attention, and if they are going the self-destruction route and are still unwilling to listen, that is their problem (I'm aware of how harsh this sounds). They built up a wall around them, a pretty solid one that barely anyone except a specialist can break down and if they don't go there out of an own initiative but refuse to do so instead because they see nothing wrong with them, there is barely anything you will be able to do. They will have to realize it themselves.

You are a clever and gifted person with a lot of potential and those people are short-sighted. They can't even look at their own horizon - which is hidden by the aforementioned wall anyway - not to mention they are inable to look past that horizon and are unwilling to take advice. They waste your time and eventually could drag you into (their) misery as well in some way, whether it is by harming your view on humanity, or by not supporting you when you are in troubles and just going on about their own issues.
You tried helping and they refused, at some point, one cannot do anything as a "simple person", no matter how intelligent one is, one has to know one's personal limits, too. In such a case they were most likely reached since long ago.


Unfortunately, this is true.
Unless you don't make pressure or initiate it yourself/ask regularily, you're not going to get answers. It is annoying, yes. It is also delaying stuff (in this case it is support) unnecessarily. Making pressure is - unforunately - your fastest way to get what you were demanding since long.

The description of the area you live in... it reminds me of something.
I have a close online-friend, he is living in a rural area, too, and he described a very similar phenomenom:
Those people living there are also depressed, feeling self-pity and self-hatred, are boring, lack motivation, have the "worth issues" and there is barely any "life" in that area, it's (metaphorically) dead. He has considered to move out of it as well, did not do so though (well, at least not yet, time will tell).
Moving to an urban area might not be all too ideal either though. Those people can have a very strict view of "human worth" as well, mainly by looking down upon others. If you felt well in your old living area, I guess that it will be the best choice that you could make. Just don't forget that things might have changed there as well, prepare for that. It has been 5 years.

Don't forget, noone knows how long one's life is, don't shorten it yourself unnecessarily. Strong people are able to get through hard times, actually, it is cowardish to do a rl-ragequit, not the other way around, so disregard that thought as soon as possible!
This is not meant to sound offensive, but if it does, I apologize. It is rather supposed to serve as motivation.

Stay strong and try to make it through this "waiting time" until you can get out of that sh1th0le (really, yes, that's how it sounds like, even if the environment may be beautiful from what you have described, if the people are not, it's absolutely not worth it, it will just wreck you).

Well I hope you manage to move to somewhere where there are people you can relate to.

I think I have been wanting to get away from this area for a while. It explains why I have never finished decorating my bungalow when I could have finished it long ago. I don't want to spend a fortune on the place if I am going to move out of it.