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Scotia
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03 Apr 2015, 4:46 am

To explain the context of my question, I have to say that I am a very (over?) adapted person.

I was a typical aspie as a child but I learned how to behave to avoid misunderstanding/questions/conflits/reproaches and things really started to change when i became a teenager.

I developped and wore several masks one upon another since then until everything is mixed and i don't know which part of my personality is real or fake. But what's happening since 2 years is that some things and behavior i learned, i'm not anymore able to do it. I feel relieved for some of the stuffs i don't do (sometimes i don't know anymore how to do it, sometimes i just don't oblige myself).

My personality is cracking gradually and my fear is the following:

Becoming the total opposite of who i was, someone in her cave spending her life reading, without any friends, with the lost of time and space, no connexion except working. I'm afraid to loose myself.

If i turn like this, will i ever be able to return to "life with others" if needed/wished?

I know that the rational answer to my worries is to act with balance but i'm extreme in everything I do and i'm not controlling some of the abilities i'm loosing and for which i've spend years developping.

---
Anyone here has (had) the same worries?

What did you do?

What do you think?

Thanks in advance for your replies!



em_tsuj
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03 Apr 2015, 7:18 am

I am coming out of an isolating phase. I avoided socializing all the time because I didn't want to get hurt. Now I am more open to socialization. The thing is, I socialize as me. I don't put up a mask. This works in normal life. I still haven't figured out how to do it in dating. Right now I don't really push myself in that respect but try to remain open to romantic relationships if a suitable partner shows up in my life and shows interest.

Anytime I put myself in a social situation I have to push past an internal barrier, one that I don't think will ever go away: my natural desire to be alone. I force myself to push past this barrier because, after being so isolated, I appreciate the relationships that I have. I think that I have a natural barometer that tells me when I am getting too isolated and need to reach out more. When I recognize my need to socialize more, then I make an effort to do so. I am sure you will be able to do the same.

It takes a lot of energy to wear a mask, and it only works for superficial relationships. Congratulations on letting go of the masks. It is a challenge to learn how to socialize as yourself. However, I think you will be much more satisfied with your relationships when you present yourself honestly. You will be surprised to find that people accept you as you are--AS and all.



dryope
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03 Apr 2015, 8:26 am

Yes, this is one of the reliefs of the autism label for me: I finally understand why I felt like I was lying when I was just being like everyone else. I would spend all day focused on being "right" socially and as a result I kept getting overwhelmed and burned out. I didn't understand what was happening and why I felt that way. I would spend all of my free time just laying around, not knowing what to do. The worst was feeling, in my mid-30s, that I didn't feel "me" anymore.

For the past five months I have let myself just do whatever I wanted (within reason) and observed myself to see where I went. I've been letting the masks fall away on their own. I don't know what I'll find when I'm done. I feel like I'm close, but not totally there yet.

The problem is that now I feel a lot more like I did as a teenager when, like you, I started to turn a corner. But that was also a perplexing time -- I felt at the edge of understanding in terms of social cues. When I focused on learning about human behavior in my 20s (practicing eye contact and smiling and the like) I also began to feel less like myself. So now...I am in a key discovery point. How far can I regress and how many of the tools I've learned can I still use?

Here are some things I *have* learned:

-- I like hanging out with people who make no social demands on me: who take me as I am and don't throw a lot of social tests at me. And I can be myself around these other people.

-- I like to structure social activities around a hobby or work. If we're there for a "reason" or talking about a shared experience, then I can handle it.

-- I feel more comfortable when I can take charge of a situation: when other people are dominating me in a social situation, I feel out of control and confused. (I avoid people who make me anxious, even if I don't know why they make me anxious, but usually this seems to be why.) Some people like my high energy and take-charge attitude and some people are turned off by it. Some people even work with me and we tell fast-paced jokes back and forth, and that's fun. But I need friends who match my energy or complement it, not compete with it. Luckily, that seems to be something I can find among my very nerdy friends. :)

-- My social energy ebbs and flows, and I need to respect my own rhythms. If I'm not feeling it then I shouldn't force it.

Anyway, this is the stuff I'm figuring out about myself through observation. I've had to be patient and let some things drop while I've done that. One big thing I'm dropping is a life-long dream -- my PhD thesis -- because I've lacked the focus and energy to do it while I've been letting these masks fall. It's painful. This process isn't without its price -- the person I want to be is not exactly the same as the person I am.


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ToughDiamond
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03 Apr 2015, 11:10 am

I think I have a similar thing going on in me, but probably not so severe and it doesn't worry me all that much, because (I guess) I see it differently.

It seems to me that when mainstream people socialise, they fake a lot of empathy and hide a lot of their real feelings and opinions. I have some skill at fitting in with that, but I don't feel fulfilled at all, it's no less lonely for me than it would be to just stay at home, so I don't usually bother with the mainstream.

When I associate with people I like (outliers, mavericks, eccentrics, hippies, bohemians, anarchists, and oddballs), I feel less of a need to use social masks. I still say very little to them about what I really think and feel, and tend to apply a positive gloss that doesn't always feel like me. I feel a little less lonely when I'm with my chosen types of people, but I have a long way to go if I want much social fulfillment. But the answer isn't to lie to them more often. I don't want to come home thinking "they think they like me, but all they really like is the fake personality I've presented to them." But there's a difference between using a little discretion and living a complete lie. I think I need to work on being slightly more assertive and confident with people.

I think it helps to keep social interactions very one-on-one, and get to know individuals well, so that instead of trying to "do the done thing" I'd try to tailor my communication towards the individual concerned.



Scotia
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03 Apr 2015, 11:49 am

Thank you all for your answers.

It strengthens my decision to:

-get new friends more like me and abandon mundanities to save my energy for people who are worth it.
-find a club (astronomy or psychology) and meet with people with the same interests that i have

I'll also evaluate with a scale in my diary how deep i stay in my cave and this will (i hope) avoid me to go too far.

Merci :)



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03 Apr 2015, 11:57 am

My socializing these days tends to be with Star Trek clubs and with a couple who I think sees me more like a charity case than a friend.

With the Star Trek clubs, I tend to show up in character as Q, and make it pretty obvious. But a mask can reveal as well as conceal. There was a Next Gen episode where Q was asked why he showed up wearing costumes. The answer was because he was in search of the truth. Well, same here. Wearing a creative mask like that helps me express myself.

As for the couple that hangs out with me sometimes, since it's been made very clear to me that even though we've known each other for over 15 years, our relationship is pretty much superficial and will never move to being close friends ... I think it's safe to say that I've developed an attitude of, I'm just going to be myself, joke around and not take them or their feelings about it all that seriously, have fun ... and if they don't like it, tough for them. If they want an explanation, I'm prepared to give them one ... and then they'll probably wish they hadn't asked. If they want to pay for my dinner so that they can feel good about themselves that they've done their good deed for the day, okay with me.

As for people faking empathy ... that just happened to me big-time. I attended an event that was cancelled at the last minute, only I never got the message that it was cancelled, so I just showed up at the door all innocent and asked to be let in. On the plus side, the people let me in, smiled, and pretended like the event was still taking place. I gave them a package of cookies as a gift. On the minus side, I got home to find a whole bunch of messages letting me know that the event had been canceled. These were people I barely knew ... so I hope they gained something from getting to know each other better, even if it was to learn more about me before deciding to reject me. Now I'm wondering what to do about their next event?

...


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03 Apr 2015, 11:58 am

Scotia wrote:
Thank you all for your answers.

It strengthens my decision to:

-get new friends more like me and abandon mundanities to save my energy for people who are worth it.
-find a club (astronomy or psychology) and meet with people with the same interests that i have

I'll also evaluate with a scale in my diary how deep i stay in my cave and this will (i hope) avoid me to go too far.

Merci :)


Astronomy?
I wish we lived closer! * smile *

...


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dianthus
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03 Apr 2015, 12:33 pm

I fear being manipulated. If I let my guard down with people, it's inevitable that I will be manipulated. I simply cannot process social interaction fast enough to avoid it. Putting on a mask, being guarded, and following a script gives me a tiny bit of a buffer against that. Otherwise I am left wide open to manipulation.

I've accepted that it's a vulnerability I'm always going to have. I can't process things fast enough in real time to handle situations the way other people do. They have that advantage over me. I'm always a step behind (or a hundred steps behind) because of my poor auditory processing, taking things literally, natural gullibility, etc. And then I need lots of time alone to process what happens in social interactions after they are over.



Scotia
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03 Apr 2015, 4:04 pm

the_phoenix wrote:
Scotia wrote:
Thank you all for your answers.

It strengthens my decision to:

-get new friends more like me and abandon mundanities to save my energy for people who are worth it.
-find a club (astronomy or psychology) and meet with people with the same interests that i have

I'll also evaluate with a scale in my diary how deep i stay in my cave and this will (i hope) avoid me to go too far.

Merci :)


Astronomy?
I wish we lived closer! * smile *

...


Yep! since i could read (4yo), the solar system was my very first love ^^
The Phénix, i'd say that if you enjoy going out with these people, then keep doing it.

@Dianthus: i understand. hopefully, I don't have any problem with being manipulated as I can read people.



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03 Apr 2015, 5:06 pm

Scotia wrote:
...I developped and wore several masks one upon another since then until everything is mixed and i don't know which part of my personality is real or fake....

I have wondered that, too. My adaptive skills (masking) are similar to yours. I have used and continue to use them when required. It is a lot like being able to speak a foreign language to help communicate in business or among friends even though the language isn't the person's native language. So, to make things easier on me (and, as a side benefit, for the other(s) with whom I communicate), I use my adaptive abilities. As has been described, this gets very tiring, and, as I age, even more so. Now, why would anybody want to adapt this way? Well, I have tried just being me (and on more than a few occasions when I was simply too tired to do anything else), and the results have always been disastrous because I come off blunt to the point of rudeness. At least, that is what I am told. Since I was screened with AS/hfASD, I have tried to recognize my social triggers better so that I can reduce my adaptations while still remaining as pleasant as I can. I would like to believe that I can get through most of my day well without adaptations except with individuals who I don't know well. That would help me and probably the other(s), too.

I am afraid, though, that many of my adaptations are almost like auto-pilot for me.

Or, did I misunderstand your question? :?


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03 Apr 2015, 5:33 pm

Scotia wrote:
Yep! since i could read (4yo), the solar system was my very first love ^^
The Phénix, i'd say that if you enjoy going out with these people, then keep doing it.


Bonjour, Scotia,

You are French Canadian?

I was first introduced to space through Star Trek, then through the moon landing, at a very young age as well. Star Trek at age 3, the moon landing in kindergarten. Was reading college-level astronomy magazines at around age 8 or 9.

Thanks for your advice. When I first found out that the people hosting the event had wanted to cancel it at the last minute on me, I was really upset and stayed up until 2:00 a.m. in the morning. Fortunately, I stayed patient, restrained my temper, and didn't send anyone an e-mail about it in the middle of the night. I did mention it in an April Fool's edition of a certain newsletter in what I hoped was a light-hearted way while still sharing my point of view, and am hoping things will get better from here.

...


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AspieUtah
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03 Apr 2015, 5:47 pm

the_phoenix wrote:
I was [...] reading college-level astronomy magazines at around age 8 or 9....

You too? I was in constant communication with the public-information office at NASA at the same age. They would send me white papers and press releases. After I read them, I found references within them about still more papers and releases that I would then request. Hehe. I was such a little Sheldon. :lol:


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03 Apr 2015, 5:57 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
I was [...] reading college-level astronomy magazines at around age 8 or 9....

You too? I was in constant communication with the public-information office at NASA at the same age. They would send me white papers and press releases. After I read them, I found references within them about still more papers and releases that I would then request. Hehe. I was such a little Sheldon. :lol:


Hey, it sounds like we need to start the WrongPlanet Astronomy Club ! !! :D

...


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AspieUtah
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03 Apr 2015, 6:28 pm

the_phoenix wrote:
Hey, it sounds like we need to start the WrongPlanet Astronomy Club ! ! ! :D

...

Hehe. I have forgotten a LOT of what I once knew about astronomy. And, the arbitrary way that Pluto was kicked to the curb, bothered me. Still, when the Association of Space Explorers had its conference of astronauts in Salt Lake City about 10 years ago, I got media credentials and was able to collect 15 autographs of astronauts and cosmonauts. I got to chat a little with Scott "Godspeed, John Glenn" Carpenter and called him the "rock star of the conference." He laughed. So, I guess I still harbor some interest in astronomy, even if I understand less than I did.


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03 Apr 2015, 6:39 pm

dianthus wrote:
I fear being manipulated. If I let my guard down with people, it's inevitable that I will be manipulated. I simply cannot process social interaction fast enough to avoid it. Putting on a mask, being guarded, and following a script gives me a tiny bit of a buffer against that. Otherwise I am left wide open to manipulation.

I've accepted that it's a vulnerability I'm always going to have. I can't process things fast enough in real time to handle situations the way other people do. They have that advantage over me. I'm always a step behind (or a hundred steps behind) because of my poor auditory processing, taking things literally, natural gullibility, etc. And then I need lots of time alone to process what happens in social interactions after they are over.


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03 Apr 2015, 7:11 pm

Good one Willard.