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StarTrekker
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15 Oct 2015, 12:56 am

I was having an interesting conversation with the members of my social skills group this evening. We were talking about idioms and figurative expressions, because one of our two group leaders (who are both NT) is trying out an experiment this week. She's going to see what kind of reaction she gets from people whenever she says, "What does that mean?" to an idiom or expression that wouldn't come naturally to a person with AS. She was asking us how she could measure the success of her goal, and one of my AS group mates said, "Once you start actually seeing everything literally in your head [seeing a literal bush when hearing the expression "beating about the bush" for instance] then you'll know you've succeeded."

We then got into an interesting conversation about the way people see things, because both my group mate and I assumed that when people say things, they all get images in their heads associated with what they're saying (we see a literal bush when people say "beat about the bush", or an actual horse and cart when they say, "put the horse before the cart", even though we know what these expressions are supposed to mean figuratively). It turns out that both our NT group leaders, and my step-father, who I asked later, just "understand" instinctively what the other person means, figuratively, without any accompanying images or even written words in their heads. I find this a little overwhelming to comprehend, because I don't understand how anyone could just "know" something without anything else going on inside their heads. So, I'm interested: how many of you think in pictures, and how many don't? If you don't, what is your experience like?

(On a side note, we decided that our group leader actually becoming a picture thinker was too hard, so we just decided to measure her goal by the number of times she asked people what they meant when they used idiomatic expressions.)


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Edenthiel
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15 Oct 2015, 1:38 am

StarTrekker wrote:
I was having an interesting conversation with the members of my social skills group this evening. We were talking about idioms and figurative expressions, because one of our two group leaders (who are both NT) is trying out an experiment this week. She's going to see what kind of reaction she gets from people whenever she says, "What does that mean?" to an idiom or expression that wouldn't come naturally to a person with AS. She was asking us how she could measure the success of her goal, and one of my AS group mates said, "Once you start actually seeing everything literally in your head [seeing a literal bush when hearing the expression "beating about the bush" for instance] then you'll know you've succeeded."

We then got into an interesting conversation about the way people see things, because both my group mate and I assumed that when people say things, they all get images in their heads associated with what they're saying (we see a literal bush when people say "beat about the bush", or an actual horse and cart when they say, "put the horse before the cart", even though we know what these expressions are supposed to mean figuratively). It turns out that both our NT group leaders, and my step-father, who I asked later, just "understand" instinctively what the other person means, figuratively, without any accompanying images or even written words in their heads. I find this a little overwhelming to comprehend, because I don't understand how anyone could just "know" something without anything else going on inside their heads. So, I'm interested: how many of you think in pictures, and how many don't? If you don't, what is your experience like?

(On a side note, we decided that our group leader actually becoming a picture thinker was too hard, so we just decided to measure her goal by the number of times she asked people what they meant when they used idiomatic expressions.)


I thought everyone thought in images. Now I'm even more suspect if NT people really do know what they are talking about. ;-)

In all seriousness, yes I think in images. Not always "pictures" but clearly always visual (could be 3-d, diagrammatic, etc). Idioms to me were just something to memorize, like an equation.


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DevilKisses
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15 Oct 2015, 2:34 am

I do think in pictures, but they're not very clear. :(


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Lukeda420
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15 Oct 2015, 7:53 am

I think in pictures all the time. It's almost like watching a video.

My guess is that it has to do with the way aspies analyze things. I don't think NT's can't think in pictures, I just think they respond to the language more instinctively. I think we analyze the language more before we respond. That's just a guess though.



NowhereWoman
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15 Oct 2015, 8:05 am

No. Not at all. The only images I ever get are shadowy. However, I have pretty significant visual-spacial issues. I guess that lack also translates when I think about/remember something.

I will generally remember things by sound - for example, a conversation I've heard, or music that was playing at the time - or else what I'll see will be the words, as if typed out on a page, describing what I'm thinking about.



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15 Oct 2015, 8:07 am

Absolutely not. I think in words. In fact, when I was younger I thought that babies could not think because they could not talk (I recall asking my mother "can babies think?"). I think in words (english only - I tried thinking in French when I took french class briefly but couldn't do it) so thought that if someone couldn't talk, they couldn't use words, and therefore couldn't think, and so must be vacant inside their physical shell of a body. I was little though, I didn't know any better! Once I realized that deaf-mute people clearly are as smart as anyone else, I realized that words are only one manifestation of thought, and often the least effective way of communicating thoughts because of the limits that words have.)

Temple Grandin has said many times that she originally believed all autistic people thought in pictures like she does, however she has now stated her theory of there being several basic kinds of thinkers on the spectrum, and visual is only one of them. I found this very interesting. Here's a link or two if anyone else thinks it sounds interesting.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... 40/?no-ist

http://www.templegrandin.com/article.html

I am a "verbal logic thinker".

My visualization skills are very poor. I also cannot draw to save my life.


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Last edited by LivingInParentheses on 15 Oct 2015, 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lukeda420
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15 Oct 2015, 8:22 am

There is a communication techniques that identifies which type of thinker a person is. The main categories are visual, auditory and kinesthetic. Visually inclined people tend to use phrases like "I see what you mean" or "this looks good to me." Auditory thinkers tend to use phrases like "I hear ya" or "that sounds good to me." And kinesthetic people tend to say thing like "I can't get a hold of him."

People tend to have one dominant sense that they use to navigate the world. The language people use can give a little insight into which one of a person's senses is dominant.

That could be a possible explanation on why some people don't think in pictures.



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15 Oct 2015, 11:06 am

Not seeing pictures in one's mind when hearing idioms doesn't mean not thinking in pictures for other things or not being visual thinker in general. When hearing idioms, NTs probably prioritize social processing at the top, and once social meaning is understood, brain moves on as conversation continues, and there is no need to see pictures or words or anything else as mental imagery. Without prioritizing social processing, autistic people may see pictures or words or sense something else. In other tasks involving visual thinking, two people who see and don't see pictures when hearing idioms may perform equally.


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15 Oct 2015, 11:20 am

Yes.I also thought that's how everyone else was.I was surprised when I found out this wasn't true.I can't conceive how anyone thinks without pictures.Seems like their brain would just be a blank screen.I have trouble with people's faces if I don't know them very well.Then I usually recognize them by their voice.


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StarTrekker
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15 Oct 2015, 3:08 pm

NowhereWoman wrote:
No. Not at all. The only images I ever get are shadowy. However, I have pretty significant visual-spacial issues. I guess that lack also translates when I think about/remember something.

I will generally remember things by sound - for example, a conversation I've heard, or music that was playing at the time - or else what I'll see will be the words, as if typed out on a page, describing what I'm thinking about.


I sometimes get this too. If a word doesn't readily have an image attached to it, like articles such as "the" or "and", or certain adjectives that describe abstract states, like "impertinent", "annoying", "happy", etc., I see the word, or the phrase the word is attached to, in written text in my head, occasionally accompanied by a vague image of a person acting impertinent, annoying or happy. Because I have grapheme-colour synaesthesia, I see the text in my synaesthetic colours as well.

As for sound, I do think I tie sound to a lot of my images, primarily when recalling things like conversations or TV shows. I can run scenes from my favourite programmes through my head like a movie reel, and the accompanying dialogue will be there, in the exact voices, tone and inflection that were used in the show.


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Lukeda420
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15 Oct 2015, 3:11 pm

StarTrekker wrote:
NowhereWoman wrote:
No. Not at all. The only images I ever get are shadowy. However, I have pretty significant visual-spacial issues. I guess that lack also translates when I think about/remember something.

I will generally remember things by sound - for example, a conversation I've heard, or music that was playing at the time - or else what I'll see will be the words, as if typed out on a page, describing what I'm thinking about.


I sometimes get this too. If a word doesn't readily have an image attached to it, like articles such as "the" or "and", or certain adjectives that describe abstract states, like "impertinent", "annoying", "happy", etc., I see the word, or the phrase the word is attached to, in written text in my head, occasionally accompanied by a vague image of a person acting impertinent, annoying or happy. Because I have grapheme-colour synaesthesia, I see the text in my synaesthetic colours as well.

As for sound, I do think I tie sound to a lot of my images, primarily when recalling things like conversations or TV shows. I can run scenes from my favourite programmes through my head like a movie reel, and the accompanying dialogue will be there, in the exact voices, tone and inflection that were used in the show.


That's very close to how I think.



Rockymtchris
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15 Oct 2015, 3:25 pm

As a frequent daydreamer with a very vivid imagination, it seems it would be hard for me not to think visually.
I've always connected images with idioms or metaphors, that is if I can actually grasp any type of meaning from them.
For example with the old trite cliche, "the early bird catches the worm", I actually visualise a bird chewing up a worm with the sun rising in the background, and never the NT ideology that waking up at daybrake is supposed to equal opportunity or success.


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FallingDownMan
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15 Oct 2015, 5:39 pm

I think in images and very brief video clips. For me, the more stressed or anxious I get, the more vivid the images become, and the harder it becomes to translate those pictures, images and videos to words. I also have to take an extra step in the speaking process and translate what I see in my head to words. I've always thought that if I could eliminate that step, that half my communication problems would disappear.


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15 Oct 2015, 5:56 pm

I don't always think in pictures, but I do tend to get really vivid mental images of idioms.



catalina
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15 Oct 2015, 6:04 pm

As a NT, i guess my kind of thinking is mixed. I do make images in my mind when i read a book or hear a conversation, but i also think in words and unspoken concepts (emotions? instinct? idea of something? don´t know how to explain this last ones).



GodzillaWoman
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15 Oct 2015, 6:11 pm

I think in pictures and patterns or networks of connectedness. The ideas are pictures, and memories are retrieved by how they are connected to other memories. I can remember things better if I can connect them to something. For example, if someone introduces me to someone named Donna Jackson, I can remember her name better if I think, "like the companion Donna Noble on Doctor Who." I picture Donna Jackson and Donna Noble standing next to each other on the TARDIS.

I realized that I think in pictures first, and word second. When I'm trying to talk to someone, I picture the thing I'm talking about, and then assign a word to it. It sometimes means I have a slight hesitation in talking about certain abstract concepts that don't work well with pictures. It also means my verbal comprehension is pretty poor--I'll hear the wrong word or have trouble making sense of them, and my hearing is not impaired. I often have to have people repeat themselves, and I've had a lot of instances in which I misunderstood people. Many of my clients communicate with me via IM or email because it's easier than having to repeat themselves several times.

There have been a number of instances in which my picture-to-English translation process has broken down. When I get nervous, it's harder for me to find the words, literally. I stammer and struggle to think of the words. If I am very upset, I can barely get words out. If I am in a meltdown, I am unable to think of any English words at all, as though my verbal word-maker has "crashed." I become temporarily nonverbal, and am only able to use gestures. When I was in a car wreck at age 4, I became nonverbal for two days.


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