How to correct misapplication of motives

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beautifulspam
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02 May 2007, 3:10 pm

Ok so, for most NTs the social machinery in their brains is in constant overdrive. Everything they do has some kind of social "meaning."

When they interact with other NTs they assign motives based on the assumption that said social machinery is equally active in others. And they tend to make pretty good guesses.

When they interact with us, they try to do the same thing. They see waht we are doing, think about what would have motivated them to do the same thing, and misapplications occur.

What to do about this? Shall we outwardly conform to send the signals they expect? Absent widespread public understanding of AS this seems to be the only option, and the one i adopt with limited, though ever greater success.

Some examples:

X failed to greet you in the hallway ---> arrogant / having a bad day/ secretive/ sneaky
[X didn't hear you or was lost in thought]

X didn't smile when talking to you -----> bored/ depressed/ secretely hates you
[X doesnt care about showing his emotions]

X wears the same clothes every day ---> poor/ too stupid to buy new clothes/ has no self respect
[X likes that every shirt is his favorite shirt and shows self respect by other means than wardrobe]

X didn't get it the first 7 times you explained it to him ----> X is either stupid or passive aggressive
[Conversations make X feel tired and nervous so he tuned you out. sorry!]



agentcyclosarin
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02 May 2007, 3:15 pm

I can't force myself to smile, lord knows I try and it looks MORE fake and apparently makes me come off as even MORE of an as*hole than if I just don't smile. Why people have these needs I cannot comprehend at all.



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02 May 2007, 3:18 pm

Coworker: You must be having a bad day.
Me: Did I say I was having a bad day?
Coworker: Uh.. no.
Me: Then why are you drawing conclusions based on no evidence?
Coworker: But you didnt smile at me when I greeted you.
Me: You know as well as I do that people fake their expressions constantly.. so what makes you think me looking mad is real? If I had faked a smile would you have believed that instead? Are you just stumbling through life deciding randomly whats real and whats fake?
Coworker: Uhh.. you make my head hurt..



cecilfienkelstien
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02 May 2007, 3:24 pm

Why Do NTs make these assumptions :evil:
They just run on differant gears. But what makes me mad is that they expect everyone else to be on the same gear as them :twisted: This is the crap that makes me feel cynical and depressed :cry:



kiki3
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02 May 2007, 4:00 pm

I have the most difficult time with appropriate expressions. I've been trying to take notice of what type of expression I had on my face when I see that someone's reacting to me as if they're confused, angry, or just turned off. It seems I might smirk a lot, but for different reasons than an NT would smirk. I don't feel comfortable with big smiles, so a half smile (smirk) seems easier to do.



agentcyclosarin
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02 May 2007, 4:29 pm

Fraya wrote:
Coworker: You must be having a bad day.
Me: Did I say I was having a bad day?
Coworker: Uh.. no.
Me: Then why are you drawing conclusions based on no evidence?
Coworker: But you didnt smile at me when I greeted you.
Me: You know as well as I do that people fake their expressions constantly.. so what makes you think me looking mad is real? If I had faked a smile would you have believed that instead? Are you just stumbling through life deciding randomly whats real and whats fake?
Coworker: Uhh.. you make my head hurt..


Exactly.


Caretaker: Why are you always frowning?
Me: I'm not frowning.
Caretaker: You aren't smiling.
Me: I'm not frowning either, what are you getting at?
Caretaker: It's nice to smile, it shows people you're happy.
Me: But I'm not happy.
Caretaker: Than whats wrong?
Me: Nothing.
Caretaker: If you're not sad and you're not happy than whats going on?
Me: I'm currently staring at the floor, now I am moving to the right and walking away.

ect.


Quote:
I have the most difficult time with appropriate expressions.

Me too.



ghostgurl
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02 May 2007, 4:47 pm

People make way too many assumptions I think. If they really want to know how you're feeling they should ask instead of just assuming something that may not be true. I've been told before that I look upset, when I was really content at the time. I suppose I can understand that, my emotions don't always display right. Still no need to make assumptions. If they asked if I was feeling ok, I would tell them the truth.


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willem
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02 May 2007, 4:57 pm

beautifulspam wrote:
What to do about this? Shall we outwardly conform to send the signals they expect? Absent widespread public understanding of AS this seems to be the only option, and the one i adopt with limited, though ever greater success.


You should distinguish between vague acquaintances and close acquaintances. Of the first, it isn't (or shouldn't be) relevant to you what they think. But to the latter you should explain or at least mention your AS, if it causes misunderstandings between you and them.


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Eller
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02 May 2007, 5:09 pm

cecilfienkelstien wrote:
Why Do NTs make these assumptions :evil:
They just run on differant gears. But what makes me mad is that they expect everyone else to be on the same gear as them :twisted: This is the crap that makes me feel cynical and depressed :cry:


They don't do it consciously. It's some sort of pattern which obviously helps NTs to communicate very fast, but which fails if someone shows unexspected reactions.
And many NTs don't ask about the feelings of other people, because everybody (every NT, anyway) is going to answer "I'm fine" anyway, so they completely rely on nonverbal communication when feelings are concerned...



beautifulspam
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02 May 2007, 5:12 pm

Well my friends know and they rip on me about being "autistic," but they also give me a pass when my behavior seems inappropriate.

"dude that was a total rainman moment don't do that."

I think we need sympathetic NTs in our lives to give us that occasional whack with a clue-by-four :lol:



Fraya
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02 May 2007, 5:16 pm

Eller wrote:
cecilfienkelstien wrote:
Why Do NTs make these assumptions :evil:
They just run on differant gears. But what makes me mad is that they expect everyone else to be on the same gear as them :twisted: This is the crap that makes me feel cynical and depressed :cry:


They don't do it consciously. It's some sort of pattern which obviously helps NTs to communicate very fast, but which fails if someone shows unexspected reactions.
And many NTs don't ask about the feelings of other people, because everybody (every NT, anyway) is going to answer "I'm fine" anyway, so they completely rely on nonverbal communication when feelings are concerned...


Yep its kind of an unspoken rule. They never express their emotional state in words (unless they want to vent/manipulate) but with expressions. If you act like you don't notice that means you don't care because it is of course impossible for someone to really not notice.

Sometimes you wonder how the species has survived.



Amerithius
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03 May 2007, 1:15 am

Wow, I can relate to this. I'm no good with displaying facial expressions (a friend had told me that I needed to practice that). More recently, another friend keeps asking me "what's wrong?", which is annoying because they keep saying "you're depressed" and that I'm lying. When I was walking with that friend, just after walking past someone that had been teasing me, I don't know how I was looking but the friend asked me "what's wrong" again, which annoys me how she assumes this and asks this at random times (and in places where I wouldn't be able to give a decent answer, makes me think its just her impulsive tendencies) but it was like two negative numbers on a vector scale. I said "can you please stop asking me that?" in a harsh tone, (I've told her to stop many times before) and she said she'd leave me alone, I said "okay" and that was it.

But it seems like NTs can be manipulative, I don't like how anything that they say could be a lie. It frightens me to trust someone, seems like they might be all about image, I've had a bad experience with this.

Either way, I would find it much simpler if I could be told how someone is feeling verbally, I usually don't pick up on it as easy as other people. It's interesting because someone may say to me that Person A looked not as cheerful or that there must be something wrong, and I'll be thinking "how do you know? I didn't see anything different. maybe there's something else. there's not enough information given. you can't just make an assumption on such an ambiguous event/action".


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03 May 2007, 5:58 am

I'm AS and my husband is HFA. i have a real problem with his facial expressions. I always think he's angry when he's not. It causes a lot of anguish in our relationship. We've discussed it with a hypnotherapist and he's going to help me with this. He says it's a phobic reaction and I agree.


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natty
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03 May 2007, 6:08 am

Thats intresting scrulie , I am often the same , I'm not sure if that's my inability to read a face , there inability to do the proper face or maybe i'm just completly paranoid.
bb natty



scrulie
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03 May 2007, 6:38 am

Acually I'm just having a bit of a realisation - it's not just facial expressions that worry me, but also body language, and things like sighing and even the way he crunches his toast ( 8O ), pacing, hanging around in a way I perceive to be 'uneasy', and all sorts of things. I think that I've been scared by people's actual anger that seems to come out of nowhere because I didn't read the signs before the person reached the point where they fully expressed their anger. Therefore I'm always on the lookout for signs that someone might be becoming angry, so it's not such a nasty surprise, if you see what I mean!


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03 May 2007, 7:08 am

What seems to confuse me are "cues" in general...

My bf and I got into an argument tonight over something I thought was really stupid. He was venting to me about his mom, and I was listening and just kind of going with it (smile and nod approach), and he said "I just don't know why she's nagging about this..." I said "I don't know either-why do you constantly remind me of things?"

instant argument... he got really defensive instead of actually thinking about it. I'm assuming when someone vents, I should just say absolutely nothing and not question them or apply it to them in any way because the other person is "obviously" (to them) wrong, and that's just how it is. But I always find myself flipping perspectives and having questions :( I dunno if that will ever change, but it's pretty irritating to be treated like you just started up a war just because you asked them to apply what they are griping about to themselves...