The opposite of ableism

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Again and again on WP I see people post that they disliked themselves for their autistic traits and because they were disabled in certain ways (like socializing).

Then they post that they felt better about themselves when they got diagnosed with autism. They say that autism "explains" the behavior.

It seems like they are basically saying that it's ok for autistic people to have certain traits, but it's bad or shameful or something for non-autistic people to have those same traits.

Would they still be hating themselves if they hadn't gotten diagnosed? Do they have a poor opinion of non-autistic people who display the traits they disliked about themselves? This is not a healthy mindset.

????

I still don't like upsetting people because of my autistic behavior. I still try to be considerate of others.

I am generally not upset by others having autistic behavior as I share the same.

Yeah the neurodiversity movement needs to stress that whether you've been pathologised ie diagnosed as 'autistic' or not, you're still valuable.

These traits don't suddenly become bad ones just cos you lack a label.

But a lot of people find self acceptance hard.

The medical model relies a lot on 'at least it's not your fault'. For that, you need a diagnosis.

For a social understanding of such traits, you don't need a diagnosis. Just need to accept yourself in spite of your difference to some other people.

There are people who have problems and there are people who are looking for excuses. The diagnosis doesn't solve any problems but gives an explanation and delivers excuses until they realize that excuses don't help with any of their problems.

^This. Some people want to understand their problems so they can overcome them. Some people just want to label their problems, and use them as excuses to avoid having to overcome them. Sort of like how a dyslexic might find out they're dyslexic, and use that to get help overcoming their dyslexia - or they might use it as an excuse to avoid the need to improve. In other words, "I'm dyslexic so I have to try harder and may need help reading", versus "I'm dyslexic so don't expect me to read at all cos I just can't". In that same spirit, some autistics use their diagnosis as a bridge to get more specific help, or to at least understand WHY things are difficult for them, while still willing to take on the extra effort to overcome them - while other autistics use their diagnosis as an excuse to no longer need to try to change or improve at all.

It's the difference between "help me to be able to do this for myself" versus "help me by doing this for me". The former still wants to do it themselves, simply recognizing that assistance may be needed - whereas the latter simply wants someone else to do it for them. Though on the surface they're both simply "asking for help", the degree and purpose of the help is quite different.

And yes, some people DO believe that if you're "normal" then it's not ok to do certain things or be certain ways, but if you have a "condition" that gives you a free pass to be that way, and absolves you of the need to change or improve. And you're right - it isn't a healthy mindset.

Interesting question. I suppose a lot depends on whether the person being judged is able or not to fulfill the expectation in question (earning their keep, being sociable, or whatever), or whether they can but can't be bothered to. Since for the majority of undiagnosed people it isn't known why they're not doing whatever it is, it's interesting that anybody would presume to know. I don't know what the answer is. It's obviously a mistake to presume anything, but if people aren't fulfilling their expectations, I guess we need to know why, or we've no way of knowing how to deal with them.

I don't think the posts on this thread are being very fair to those of us who were diagnosed late.

Speaking for myself (and I believe there are many who've had similar experiences), I've been trying my whole life to improve myself so that I can fit in with others and do 'normal' things like career and marriage and kids.
This has been a constant struggle for me, and even now I struggle with things others take for granted like being able to hold a conversation or attend a work meeting without saying something inappropriate, and still I get it wrong sometimes.
Of course I hate that I screw these things up so often. Sometimes it makes me too anxious to do things I would otherwise want to do; sometimes it makes me depressed.

Finally receiving a diagnosis was a relief for me, but I don't think it's fair to say the reason was because I could use autism as "an excuse". Saying that makes me feel like you're not recognising that some of us have worked so hard at making ourselves as normal as possible, we've actually made ourselves ill, with burnout or mental health issues.

It seems like you're saying, I'm not allowed to use my autism as a reason to stop trying so hard to make myself something I'm not, and instead I must continue to make myself ill trying to fit in to society.

Well you know what? I do have autism and I am disabled, and I don't see why I shouldn't ask people to be a bit more accepting of my needs, and tolerant of my misunderstandings.
If people think I'm using autism as an excuse, that's their problem.
I know how f**king hard I try.

Sorry, I got a bit wound up there.

What I'm trying to say is, of course one can hate aspects of being autistic, such as the supreme ability to piss people off.
And yes, of course one will tend to be less accepting this same issue in other people who are not diagnosed autistic. Because people who piss us off are annoying, right?

So yes, of course we are likely to be more understanding of the person with an autism diagnosis - because then we know they are not doing it deliberately, but have an impairment.

I see the comparison of trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

It is not a good experience for either the peg or the hole.

I am a late diagnosed (mild) autistic. Diagnosed at age 64. I spent 6+ decades trying to get into holes where I didn't fit.

I don't hate the autistic traits, I was delighted to learn about them because I understood so much more. It doesn't mean I am "wrong", it doesn't mean the NTs are wrong. It just means we are different. The difference isn't wrong; it isn't right; it just is. What's wrong is thinking the difference is wrong or doesn't exist.

Knowing about the difference was good because now I know there was a reason I had trouble in a world of round holes. I wasn't a failed round peg; wasn't a round peg at all.

Internalized ableism is a thing. Someone does not accept themselves for their traits so they are very hard on themselves and have depression and feel suicidal because of it because they keep failing at it. They may think they are a bad person and are just a jerk and believe in all these negative labels they have been given by others such as "rude" "arrogant" etc. That can affect your self esteem. A diagnoses can help free them from it and help them learn to accept themselves and not question themselves from negative labels they had been given by their peers.


I notice in society people are only given passes if they have an explanation. At least for a blind person, we know they are blind so we are not offended if they bump into us or not looking at us and we are more patient when we see them crossing or getting on the bus and trying to find an empty seat and if they bump you with their stick by mistake, they are forgiven. Now imagine if someone was a sighter and they were taking too long to cross, cars would get impatient and start honking at them, drivers may start screaming at them.

Also I think a diagnoses is just a confirmation they are indeed different and they are not just some socially awkward person or someone who is just sensitive and their traits are not just their personality.

What the OP theorized not in my case. She only partially explained it.

True prior to diagnoses I disliked these traits. They were preventing me from doing things and I had no other frame of reference then it was me being a weak person.

With the diagnostic explanation I understood the negativity about these traits was as much about others judgements as my own impairments. That made me more accepting of these traits and acknowledging the positive aspects of these traits not only in myself but in everybody.

Having, at least partially, experienced what the OP describes:
Understanding that some difficulties and issues are hardwired into me, not me "not trying hard enough" or "making a fuss over nothing" was a great relief and helped me with "serenity prayer approach":

ASD diagnosis helped a lot with the last line.

In terms of wanting to know in order to overcome problems age when diagnosed is not a trivial factor . A person aged 25 with a new dx has more scope to achieve tangible improvements than a person who gets the dx in his/her early 60s. That doesn't mean not trying, but it does mean having realistic expectations of what is achievable.

I think the difference between autistic people diagnosed in adulthood and autistic people diagnosed in childhood is that adults would only seek out a diagnosis if they themselves perceive a problem.

I never perceived a problem in myself in terms of my personality.

Nowadays, I could just as easily be diagnosed 'sensory sensitivity disorder' if I went to the dr about actual problems rooted in my autism (eg my light sensitivity) as being diagnosed as 'autistic'.

If I avoided certain environments (which could be done without knowing - some people just don't mix well) then nobody would know I was autistic so nobody would try to 'fix me'.

The bullying also wouldn't have been blamed on me.

I interpreted that mindset differently. I figured it was because they finally found belonging. If you're talking about social people, I figure because they struggled so much for so long to belong anywhere,finding out they're autistic suddenly gives them a place where they belong. You know, like maybe they felt isolated all their life and now they know there is this whole part of the population (small part as we may be) who has had similar struggles. For some, knowing you're not alone is everything.

It's just my outsider take on it all. Im not very social, but over the years i have watched social people long for groups, people and places they belong, fit in. It seems really important to them. My idea that most people need/want other people is likely why I have this take on it.

Please don't get me wrong. A diagnosis can be a good thing once you are more aware of your own problems and once you get more support afterwards. But it's not a good thing to rely on that as an excuse and it's nothing that you should tell any other people who don't have to know your limits just because they have to rely on you.
It's better other people treat you as strange than as ret*d and not even few may treat you even worse once they know about your diagnosis. But a diagnosis itself doesn't helps you at all except for getting a label. But such a label doesn't help you because there are a lot of very different and partly even opposite problems diagnosed as ASD. Be aware that it doesn't even tells the ones who know what ASD is how they have to treat you. The only thing it tells is that you have some mental problems that can't be cured. But a label like that only helps bullies because not even few NTs are believing that it is OK to bully the ones who are very low in their pecking order and human ape hierarchy and that ret*d people are always at the bottom of it.