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Pathological Demand Avoidance

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JimJohn
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29 Sep 2022, 12:48 am

I guess I am starting a topic because I haven’t seen it before and found it interesting. I saw that it can be a trait or even a profile.



Sahn
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29 Sep 2022, 5:58 am

Yeah, I don't think it's that uncommon. Do you have any examples of how it affects you, if it does? I experience it every time someone says,

"do you know what I mean?"



temp1234
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29 Sep 2022, 7:18 am

Never heard of it. I googled and read some short articles but didn't really understand what it is. I only got confused. I probably don't understand what "demand" is in this context. I avoid lots of things, but maybe mine is just "avoiding lots of things", not avoiding "demand" whatever that is.



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29 Sep 2022, 9:19 am

It is important to distinguish this-----from somebody who just doesn't want to do his/her chores. Or is lazy.

I'm pretty lazy. I get sort of irritated when I have to, say, clean my kitchen. My desire not to clean my kitchen could be said to be "pathological." But once I start, I'm usually okay.



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29 Sep 2022, 9:28 am

I think I might have it as a subset of PTSD and Sensory Processing Disorder.
If I don't want to do something it's because I'm not comfortable (trauma or sensory).
My fight / flight kicks in and I will not do the thing, even if I should.
I can be very stubborn and have meltdowns if I'm forced.

I suppose my ADHD is part of it too, because I have poor executive function.

My adopted son has PDA, ODD and ADHD.
He's doing really well though.
He put himself in a situation where he likes his work and his environment.
He feels successful and in control.

My bio daughter is likely PDA but hasn't been tested.
She is ASD, ADHD and PTSD.
Heaven help me if I try to get her to do anything she doesn't want to do.


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JimJohn
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29 Sep 2022, 10:09 am

domineekee wrote:
Yeah, I don't think it's that uncommon. Do you have any examples of how it affects you, if it does? I experience it every time someone says,

"do you know what I mean?"


Selective mutism, tendency to be a hermit, backing away from relationships, shutting down, preoccupation with control of myself, not accepting being pushed into making decisions: I think it falls in line with the profile in a broader sense. Supposedly, the profile is characterized by not having a lack of role playing abilities.



JimJohn
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29 Sep 2022, 10:17 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I think I might have it as a subset of PTSD and Sensory Processing Disorder.
If I don't want to do something it's because I'm not comfortable (trauma or sensory).
My fight / flight kicks in and I will not do the thing, even if I should.
I can be very stubborn and have meltdowns if I'm forced.

I suppose my ADHD is part of it too, because I have poor executive function.

My adopted son has PDA, ODD and ADHD.
He's doing really well though.
He put himself in a situation where he likes his work and his environment.
He feels successful and in control.

My bio daughter is likely PDA but hasn't been tested.
She is ASD, ADHD and PTSD.
Heaven help me if I try to get her to do anything she doesn't want to do.


Thanks, that is interesting. I saw that it is more of a recognized thing in the UK. I had never heard of it.



IsabellaLinton
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29 Sep 2022, 10:20 am

Thanks for pointing out about the connection to selective mutism.
I have SM and barely ever speak.
I've tried psychotherapy, OT, and Speech Therapy for it.
Nothing really helps.

It makes sense that it could be part of PDA.


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Sahn
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29 Sep 2022, 10:38 am

JimJohn wrote:
Supposedly, the profile is characterized by not having a lack of role playing abilities.


Sorry, I don't quite grasp your meaning here.



JimJohn
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29 Sep 2022, 10:53 am

domineekee wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
Supposedly, the profile is characterized by not having a lack of role playing abilities.


Sorry, I don't quite grasp your meaning here.


I would like to know exactly what is meant also. Apparently, it is perceived that people on the spectrum have some difficulty with role playing and that inability is less apparent with a PDA profile. It may be the ability to pick up on social cues on a superficial level but not fully understanding the social situation but appearing that you do. I think that is what they are calling role playing. You are playing a role but not truely being the person you seem to be. It would be an outside perspective. It could also appear manipulative when in fact the person is simply forced into the situation by life’s circumstances.



JimJohn
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29 Sep 2022, 11:10 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Thanks for pointing out about the connection to selective mutism.
I have SM and barely ever speak.
I've tried psychotherapy, OT, and Speech Therapy for it.
Nothing really helps.

It makes sense that it could be part of PDA.


I don’t know if there is a connection. I can be somewhat random when speaking. I kinda keep it to myself in real life unless talking to people I feel comfortable with. I think some people talk when they feel it is their job and then sometimes they are speaking so as not to be taken advantage of. It is kinda crazy.



Sahn
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29 Sep 2022, 12:21 pm

JimJohn wrote:
domineekee wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
Supposedly, the profile is characterized by not having a lack of role playing abilities.


Sorry, I don't quite grasp your meaning here.


I would like to know exactly what is meant also. Apparently, it is perceived that people on the spectrum have some difficulty with role playing and that inability is less apparent with a PDA profile. It may be the ability to pick up on social cues on a superficial level but not fully understanding the social situation but appearing that you do. I think that is what they are calling role playing. You are playing a role but not truely being the person you seem to be. It would be an outside perspective. It could also appear manipulative when in fact the person is simply forced into the situation by life’s circumstances.


OK, in that case I did understand you, though its hard for me to see a connection between the two things.

I see PDA when my nephew is prompted to greet me instead of just launching into a monologue about his interests. I don't know if it's my duty to emphasise the importance society places on greetings, or my duty to let him express his enthusiasm.



JimJohn
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29 Sep 2022, 3:27 pm

domineekee wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
domineekee wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
Supposedly, the profile is characterized by not having a lack of role playing abilities.


Sorry, I don't quite grasp your meaning here.


I would like to know exactly what is meant also. Apparently, it is perceived that people on the spectrum have some difficulty with role playing and that inability is less apparent with a PDA profile. It may be the ability to pick up on social cues on a superficial level but not fully understanding the social situation but appearing that you do. I think that is what they are calling role playing. You are playing a role but not truely being the person you seem to be. It would be an outside perspective. It could also appear manipulative when in fact the person is simply forced into the situation by life’s circumstances.


OK, in that case I did understand you, though its hard for me to see a connection between the two things.

I see PDA when my nephew is prompted to greet me instead of just launching into a monologue about his interests. I don't know if it's my duty to emphasise the importance society places on greetings, or my duty to let him express his enthusiasm.


I’m using the word profile as in Aspergers would be one profile and there are others (There may not be) I realize aspergers is not even current terminology. I am curious how else I would interpret the profile aspect of it.



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29 Sep 2022, 3:44 pm

I think I have this but it is part of ADHD with me. Sometimes I panic at the thought of doing chores I don't want to do, like washing my hair. I do often just put it down to "I can't be bothered".

I'm quite happy to live in a cluttered, untidy, even unclean house. Well, sometimes it gets me down but I can still live with it.
My bathroom sink is grimy and desperately needs a clean, but I only notice it when it's not the right time to clean it, like when I'm cleaning my teeth before bed or before work. When I'm washing my hands after using the toilet I don't seem to notice it and I forget about it. Then that's another day gone where the sink hasn't got cleaned.

My ADHD can make it difficult at work too. I find it hard to focus on things for long periods of time so I have to keep taking little 5-minute breaks, which I end up distracted like talking to other co-workers, then when I go back to my task I forgot where I was up to. Then because I had been distracted, I find it hard to get my brain back into work mode so I stand there staring and scratching my head for a while to catch myself up on where I was.


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29 Sep 2022, 4:37 pm

JimJohn wrote:
domineekee wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
domineekee wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
Supposedly, the profile is characterized by not having a lack of role playing abilities.


Sorry, I don't quite grasp your meaning here.


I would like to know exactly what is meant also. Apparently, it is perceived that people on the spectrum have some difficulty with role playing and that inability is less apparent with a PDA profile. It may be the ability to pick up on social cues on a superficial level but not fully understanding the social situation but appearing that you do. I think that is what they are calling role playing. You are playing a role but not truely being the person you seem to be. It would be an outside perspective. It could also appear manipulative when in fact the person is simply forced into the situation by life’s circumstances.


OK, in that case I did understand you, though its hard for me to see a connection between the two things.

I see PDA when my nephew is prompted to greet me instead of just launching into a monologue about his interests. I don't know if it's my duty to emphasise the importance society places on greetings, or my duty to let him express his enthusiasm.


I’m using the word profile as in Aspergers would be one profile and there are others (There may not be) I realize aspergers is not even current terminology. I am curious how else I would interpret the profile aspect of it.


I understand what you mean by profile. I'm trying to understand the connection with the ability to role play and PDA. I don't know that many people other than my relatives who are on the spectrum. I don't mean to contradict either you or the studies. Applying that theory to my relatives, I can't correlate the two things.



JimJohn
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29 Sep 2022, 5:30 pm

Quote:
I understand what you mean by profile. I'm trying to understand the connection with the ability to role play and PDA. I don't know that many people other than my relatives who are on the spectrum. I don't mean to contradict either you or the studies. Applying that theory to my relatives, I can't correlate the two things.


I came up with some examples that might fit.

Maybe someone on the spectrum learning sales from a natural born salesman. He gets good at sales but would never have able to do it without a role model. He then looses his motivation.

Or maybe having a good manager at work and excelling and then falling apart when your favorite manager leaves.

Or maybe putting on a brave face but not being up to a task like going away to college.

I don’t know. I’m not diagnosed with anything. I’m seeing it as an opportunity to say I definitely don’t have Asperger’s. I’ve only watched some videos on YouTube. I honestly do think it is interesting.



Last edited by JimJohn on 29 Sep 2022, 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.