Frustration with the NHS (for UK members)

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I am seriously upset with the NHS at the moment. I am attempting to get a diagnosis, and it really couldn't get much worse.

For the beginning of the story, see my post here http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt64864.html

After that, I contacted the National Autistic Society. They were very helpful and sent me the details of diagnosticians in my area along with some suggestions on how to re-approach my GP.

Well, I went to the GP today. I very politely told him that the last referral was unhelpful, that I had a list of doctors that were suggested to me, and that I would like to be referred to one of them. He refused to refer me to any of the doctors on the list, instead saying he was referring me to some local counseling centre, and that there is a three-month waiting list for it.

I googled the clinic he referred me to. It's more well-known as a sexual health clinic, I couldn't even find the names of their psychologists. I have no idea why he would even refer me there.

What on earth do I do? Are doctors allowed to refuse referrals like that? (There were 4 different places, all NHS.)
I mean, he wouldn't even consider it. I could have argued I suppose, but I was so nervous I actually had to write everything down in a notebook and take it with me because I felt like I couldn't talk. (I was able to talk some after all, but it didn't seem to matter.)

Is there anywhere else I can go? Has anyone else had to deal with this?

Technically, a doctor is allowed to refuse a referral if they believe there is nothing wrong with you. unfortunately, this means that idf they are too unqualified to know there is something wrong with you, they can pretend it's your problem and pass you on to someone else, who might just be a glorified guidance counsellor.

As I said in my last post on your other thread, I also have the same fight on my hands right now, and i'm no fan of the NHS either, not just because of the Autism, but because they got my father killed and almost my mother. My father came to the GP with abdominal pains and diagnosed Crohn's disease, a high risk case for colon cancer. They told him it was indigestion and sent him away. He later died of colon cancer. My mother went to hospital to treat a pullip. They tested her and referred her to the GP to check for cancer. The GP ignored the cancer check part, so she demanded one from the hospital anyway, remembering what happened to my father. The hospital found a malign cancer growth and after a successful surgery she is recovering right now.

My advice, ignore the psych clinic and ask to see a different doctor. If you have to, go to a different GP altogether. Tell them you know what's wrong with you and that you need to see an Autism expert, for a formal diagnosis. Anything you have to back this up will help, even if it is just a basic "something's wrong" note from your college/unversity/school/work. Also, have you checked out the diagnosticians from the NAS yet?

My visit to the Psychological expert is scheduled for the 28th of May, so I hope my guy knows what to do.

I just got a call from my doctor today to say he is referring me to a psychiatrist I don't know if that is the same stage you got to before you hit a wall. The doctor was genuinely interested but mainly because of the mention of past/present self destructive tendencies. He said I will be contacted in a few weeks. The NHS works in many mysterious ways but most of those are geared towards cost cutting and turning people away where possible; especially difficult to diagnose 'money pit' conditions.

The self destructive tendencies may have helped. My Aspie friend at University said she only got her diagnosis after a suicide attempt. Of course i'm not reccommending you attempt suicide or even say you did. That could potentially end very badly.

andriarose,
is there not a different doctor at the surgery/health centre/whatever they call them now?

one of the things am do if am do not get offered help off one doctor,is to go to another in the same surgery,as they all have different
levels of experience on things,and beliefs,am go between a lady doctor and a man doctor [there are loads more than that at the centre],the lady doctor is best for helping am to understand something,and the man doctor is good for medication advice/prescribing.

doctors might not want to refer to own choice of specialist,especially if they are in a different borough,but they may also have that they know best belief.

the only other way am can think of,is to either go back,complain,get another appointment with doc and ask again,or go private [NAS should have a list of private docs] ,or try and find a health insurance company that allows the user to claim off it immediately,get the insurance and claim for a private pysch who has experience in asd.

The reality is many GPs don’t know that much about either mental health issues or developmental conditions. Unfortunately for you, they are the gate keeper to referrals, except in the ludicrous situations where then need you to be assessed and referred by the health trust psychiatrist, usually for the more specialist centres. One thing you should know about those is they are not working as clinicians in that guise (and that is not just coming for me, but official information), essentially they are patient auditors. Their job is to weed out any unsavoury expenses. Luckily for me he freely admitted he had no clue about ASD, ADHD, or PDDs in general (and this was a psychiatrist), but was impressed with what I knew so far. The funny thing is I was focusing on my Executive Dysfunction and other cognitive problems, but he asked me to come back with some print outs on Asperger’s. I asked him if there was a particular institution he wanted it from. His reply ‘I don’t care. Any will do’. I’m glad that I got that opportunity to do his job for him…now where is the silver lining?

My advice is to go to a GP that is also a paediatrician. Why? Well paediatricians have better training in PDDs (or even some training in PDDs). There are very few people who are trained in adults, let alone in general practice. Other than that just try different GPs. There is no reason not to do a referral in order to find out, other then pure economics. Not all GPs are bad, but this sort of thing is quite common.

My NT friend was told ‘either take the tranquilisers or don’t go out’, ‘use an elastic band’, etc. Not only is this bad advice, tranquillisers should not be used/abused regularly because they are highly addictive. In fact the law prohibits GP prescribing tranquilisers in this way, without referral. Of course the law is pretty easily abused, and they can cover their tracks simply for something like that. There is no incentive for them to make referal in areas where targets matter less, or are a drain; they make more money from ‘curing’ high blood pressure. They don’t make the link between head matters and physical health, especially to things like high blood pressure and obesity. Politicians don’t make a link between head matters and productivity, even though a prominent economist wrote a report on it, and it was commissioned by the government though they chose to ignore it.

Would it be wrong of me to see a different doctor within the same practice? I'm pretty sure there are at least 5 doctors in the practice I'm registered with, but is it normal to go to another one of them for a referral that was refused by their colleague?

As for the NAS diagnosticians - I haven't checked them out for myself yet, but the NAS sheets are pretty highly detailed on their own. They include the status of each institution (Public), category (Diagnostic services), the name of the recommended doctor, the name and address of the practice, details of coverage/ages/funding, referral sources, detailed descriptions of the assessments as they are done by that practice, and a list of disabilities cared for. Overall it tells way more about these people than I've ever found online. I'd definitely recommend contacting the NAS for any information, they certainly did their part to help.

you have my sympathies it took me years to get a diagnosis on the NHS, and then only after ending up on a mental ward.

is there anone else you know who believes you might have AS who could go to the GP with you? I find that GPs are a hundred times more helpful when there's someone else with you.

unfortunately it's a catch 22 situation. the reason people like us can't get what we want out of GPs is because of a lack of social skills due to AS! so because of AS we can't get an AS assessment

No it is not wrong. That is exactly what I did, and it is probably the least disruptive thing you can do, as moving practice is a major hassle.

Annoyingly that wasn’t the last I heard of the other GP. He took it upon himself to butt into my affairs, when my current GP was on holiday. He replied to a letter I had sent 5 months previously, which he’d obviously lost, as if it had just arrived. Of course it wasn’t relevant by then, but I was particularly annoyed about the assumptions he made about how my current GP would handle things. Of course he was completely wrong. I was already diagnosed by then, and she had been more than helpful. I told him to butt out of my affairs and to stick to what he was good at. He replied and even absurdly insinuated I had sent the letter in recently predated, and that I was being inappropriate. Of course I had may people to back me up as I spent months trying to track it. I could have replied again but thought better of it, instead I complained to my GP and I have not heard from him since.

I would see what the GPs in your practice specialise in. Yes I know 'general practice', but they can have areas that they are particularly interested in. Like my practice has that info up on their website. The paediatrician thing is a good tip, though go with which ever one you think is best. My one says on the website she is particularly interested in child mental health. I'm quite big for a child at 26, but she handled me quite well. She is versed in PDDs and used to dealing with the centers the diagnose.

This can't possibly be. As we all know, Britain's health care system is a beacon of perfection shining out to those of us here in the uncivilized backwaters of America, where we still don't have national health care. No one has ever had any trouble with the NHS, and no one has ever had to pay a cent for their medical care!

Yes you are right it could be worse. At least National Insurance doesn't preclude pre-existing conditions and the poor at least have some access to basic healthcare, without drawing up huge debts.

Not that I want to champion the NHS the state that it is in, but like I said things could be worse.

One of things that never cesses to amaze me is the brain washing that goes on over the generations. Communist witch hunting is alive and well. That people seem to be unable to draw parallels with their own municipal services that they rely on everyday and other countries’, and that a capitalist country somehow can’t have social conscious and that protectionism, market control, trade laws aren’t hypercritical to that point. Of course you can’t have a totally open market, and there isn’t one in existence. Do you think Neo-cons would want an open market? Hell no!

Frankly I would expect you to know better given your username. You do realise that Orwell was a socialist? Yes he was against communism but contrary to a popular belief in some areas socialism doesn’t necessarily mean communism. In fact more often than not it couldn’t be farther from it. Many social capitalists, and centrists consider themselves socialist.

If you want to play ping-pong with extremes be my guest, it just isn’t very original. True politics isn’t about left and right or even popularism, it is about dynamic policies that are about as far away from manifesto politics that you can get. Only one thing is for certain: Things will change.

Next time you use a county, state or federal service make sure you rile them for the commie bastards that they are (why make any exceptions for which service?). Then refuse to pay your taxes in protest…

I'm actually from the US. I've lived in the UK for about 3 years now. In all honesty, I don't think either health care system is anywhere near what it should be. Healthcare is free in the UK, but you often have to wait far too long and go through too many people who don't know what they are doing, and the overall standard of care really suffers. Doctors don't make six figure salaries so there just isn't the incentive.
In the States I never had a problem getting good quality treatment quickly, but the amount of money my family put into health insurance was unbelievable and we still had 'co-pay' on top of that. That's not to mention the times when the insurance refused to cover things (such as birth control, even when prescribed solely for hormonal problems - religion has no place in medicine!).

So it's either poor care or unaffordable care.
Personally, I'd be happy with reasonably priced semi-decent care.

The NHS is in the early stages of being (slowly) disbanded as we move towards a US style model. That is the overiding problem here.

1. I am not a neo-con, and don't consider them to be capitalist-leaning any more than the socialists are. Neo-cons tend to favor protectionism and corporate welfare, which aren't exactly free-market positions.
2. I didn't advocate anarcho-capitalism, did I? When did I ever say there should be no regulation? I think the two of us probably just disagree about the degree of state intervention that is desirable, not whether it is or not.
3. I am aware of Eric Blair's political views; I don't necessarily share every single one of them. I used to consider myself socialist. Then I took an economics course.
4. Extremes? You are projecting, and assuming a position I never stated. Not wanting government-run healthcare isn't really an extremist view. My objection was mainly sarcasm in that here in the States, we are constantly fed propaganda by Moore and others about how Britain, France, Canada and even CUBA supposedly have better medical care than we do when these statements are almost always either grossly exaggerated or outright false.
5. Again, I never stated an anarchist position, you are assuming things. I am in favor of limited government, not no government. There's a difference.

My thread has been murdered by politics. Boo!

I understand your frustration with the NHS

Personally, Im debating whether to pursue a diagnosis via the NHS primarily for the reasons that you and others have encountered.

Instead I'm thinking of getting a private diagnosis - my primary objective is just to "know" myself and for my family to accept this - nothing more really. I'm actually quite comfortable not having the label attached officially but for others an official diagnosis would be more appropriate I think.

Have you considered going "private" or is there any reasons why a private diagnosis is best avoided? I'd guess the cost is one but there might be other reasons I've not considered - still seeking advice currently