Why do we believe autism is "hard-wired"?

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Asperger is not hard-wired - we may be genetically be more or less likely to go the asperger route, but it's a route we learn (trying to systemise everything, even things, like socialising, where the systemising approach is near-impossible; other bits of the brain are much better for that).

look at all recent brain research; the brain is plastic, it changes, a LOT, with use. asperger brains look different when they've been examined because they've been used in differnet ways to NT's;

do you think Roger Federer was born with a right arm 2x as strong as his left?

JC
unlearningasperger.blogspot.com

The proper analogy would be "do you think Roger Federer was born with only one arm?"

Rett Syndrome is caused by mutations causing the MECP2 gene to be non-functional. MECP2 is found in high concentrations around mature nerves, where it switches off several genes. If the genes are not switched off, they continue to produce un-needed proteins that damage the nerve impairing it's function and possibly making it non-functional. Even if an individuals brain were to rewire their nerves, the faulty gene would merely cause impairments to the function of them, before the re-wirings had any functional use; whereas brain plasticity can take months or years to repair or reroute to another part of the brain, this faulty gene will impair new nerves in a matter of hours or days.

Explain to me how someone can psycologically/mentally replace the function of the MECP2 gene. Have you ever turnt off gene's via your mind?

"Darn that SOX10 gene making me male! I know, i'll turn it off with the power of my mind and grow a vagina!"

if there is a genetic reason, then it is hard wired. there is no "likelyhood" involved in autism. you are conceived with it or you are not. there is no getting around the substucture of one's design.

i do not think it is a "genetic predisposition". i think it is a "genetic disposition".

a genetic "predisposition" (in my mind) means an elevated susceptibility to a method of operation.

take schizophrenia for example. there is a "predisposition" for depersonalization.
not all people with a predisposition will experience the correct and subtle triggers to activate their latent potential. some will pass through life and never know they were latent schizophrenics. others will experience a myriad of triggers that upset their fluency, and then an acute schizophrenic event may likely ensue.

but i think autism is a "dispostion", which means it is inevitable and evident at conception(if there were a test for it).

"downs syndrome" is a disposition. there is no chance that a person with a genetic "disposition" to mongolism will avoid being mongoloid. there is no chance they can repair themselves by any action. downs syndrome people all have a physical similarity that makes their diagnosis so easy that it is given at birth.
autistic people (while not condemned to a chromosomal aberration) are none the less similarly inevitably autistic. i believe autism would be discernible even at the gamete stage if there was a known way to look for it.

so "predisposed" people are "likely" to stumble into an affliction at some point in their lives, and "disposed" people are inevitably in an affliction from conception.




different plastics have different properties.
some are able to be remolded and some are not.
some need only gentle heating and subtle massaging to be reshaped.
other plastics (like bakelite) will not melt and they will just burn if subjected to heat.

i am cast in a rigid way, and i would shatter if i was bent. even if heated to a high degree.

that was rather metaphorical i am sorry.

Ah, something I relate to from the paper Crassus posted:

It's just not there....

Then you would be equally incorrect. Autism can also be caused by environmental factors. If a mother were to eat fish that had been tainted by mercury throughout her pregnancy (this has nothing to do with the vaccine arguement), her child could more than likely be autistic. But because of brain plasticity and because the cause of the autism was a one-off environmental effect, the child may grow up to be perfectly NT with time.

Likewise, it is perfectly possible for someone to develop autism because of an autoimmune disorder. However, autoimmune disorders are usually triggered by environmental agents in individuals who has a genetic predisposition to them.


Down's syndrome cannot be be realistically compared to autism. A diagnosis of down's syndrome is always done by genetic analysis; whereas most forms of autism are determined by symptomology. Down's syndrome symptoms operate on a spectrum, and some people with down's syndrome do not even present symptoms.


This is not true, many down's syndrome individuals are undiagnosed until later life.


Most chromosomal aberations cause autism


Genetic differences that cause a mechanical neurological change yes. But genetic differences that cause an individual to have a predisposition? more than likely not.


One must develop autism very early in ones life, but it does not mean that every-case of autism was caused by a disposition. An environmental agent could (at 1 months age for example), cause autistm.

no it may cause a state of mental operation that is considered to be like autism.
natural autism is inherited.

maybe environmentally produced "autistics" are actually "autistomimetic".

whatever i am not interested in discussing this much further as i have something else to do before i go to bed (it is 1:35am).

There is no universally accepted "standard" or "base" cause of autism, autism is a collection of disorders/syndromes, noone disorder or syndrome is considered to be "pure autism". Autism is merely defined by it's symptomology. Although i think different forms of autism need to start being named and labeled as individual diseases, i find your suggested grouping elitist.


And so to are predispotions to developing autism via environmental agents.

NO, NO, NO ! !! !! !!

Having Autism is like being sentenced to Alcatraz ! !! !

NOBODY GETS OUT OF HERE ALIVE ! !! !! !! !! !! !

NOOOOOOOOOBOOOOODYYYYY ! !! !! !! !! !

I get the impression from how you discuss it, that you view it sort of like this:

there's being Autistic, and there's being normal. The only way to live a decent life is to be "normal", and so Autistic people should try to be "normal", or else their lives will suck.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but as James Rolfe would say "that's BULL$#!+"

while difficult at times, my life is quite decent, as I've embraced my Autism, and realized the advantages as well as the disadvantages; I know how to use it to my advantage.

I agree, and I know how you mean about thinking you have gotten rid of your ASD traits.

To myself, I'm normal, because I'm used to my thought patterns and outlook on life. To others, I am visibly ASD-ish, apparently.

Well, well, well ....

Then we agree that SOME Autistic people are capable of improvement.
Perhaps some will never be capable of improvement.

But unless they make the attempt they'll never know, eh ?

I don't think that anyone was ever arguing that some autistic people aren't capable of improvement. It seems that you are arguing a straw man.

b9, I do not find myself often disagreeing with you, but the causes of autistic spectrum disorders are neither restricted by definition, nor adequately certain from science. Necessarily if behavior and presentation and progression are indistinguishable from the predictions and criteria for ASDs, regardless of cause, it is an Autistic disorder, by current-reasonable definitions.

Actually, in my perspective, you're just making yourself out to be a bit of a prick.

From where I stand, it sounds like you're saying "if you're not able to become more and more like NTs, then yer hopeless".

Not buying it, dude.

Whitetiger posted way back at beginning of this thread :

I do agree with Whitetiger.

Having lived in the neurotypical world until 56 years not knowing I had AS - constantly adapting, preparing, analysing beforehand to make sure whatever , went right....and still being confronted with the "groundhog day" like experiences regarding 'people's' responses to me as 'you talk funny etc...ETC...'. I now, with more insight and clearer perspective on NTism, ASDs - am very happy for whatever the basic wiring of a brain is because adaptation is easy, we all do it very well every second we're alive.

Making the most of your own backyard and being proud of it , that's my point + recognising that words like "personality, normal, abnormal" are absurd because using them extinguishes the user's ability to be aware of the adaptative process...ie... their life.

With this perspective I have observed that people who want to remain in their own form of Alcatraz, prefer to give power to words like personality, values and attitudes.

I'm happier now that I have more understanding about my 'hard wired brain.
I liked it before I understood it too! I did have to adapt to get to that state of self acceptance.. ~ age 9.