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AaronAgassi
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13 Jul 2006, 3:04 pm

I confess my frustration trying to get a point across about a more interesting possible options in more capable, interesting and effective writing. Gaining and holding attention. No one seems to even notice! You all seem Hell bent upon the most anal, eeriest and boring presentation. -the typically deluded narcissism of self definition rather than the candor of self expression. You utterly refuse to consider your reader, your market. A favor which you may be sure that they will return, as your product gathers dust.


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hadapurpura
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13 Jul 2006, 3:05 pm

I would participate depending on how will it be dierected, and how cool the photos can be (no bikini definitely) and yes, if it goes or not to CAN or things like that...



Anna
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13 Jul 2006, 3:54 pm

AaronAgassi wrote:
I confess my frustration trying to get a point across about a more interesting possible options in more capable, interesting and effective writing. Gaining and holding attention. No one seems to even notice! You all seem Hell bent upon the most anal, eeriest and boring presentation. -the typically deluded narcissism of self definition rather than the candor of self expression. You utterly refuse to consider your reader, your market. A favor which you may be sure that they will return, as your product gathers dust.


I'm not sure what you're saying. If you have an alternative project in mind, there's no reason you can't do that one - it doesn't have to be either/or. Or are you just trying to change this project? In which case, how *specifically* would you want to change it?

Personally, I like the idea of the calendar - it's nice to think of Aspies and Autists being portrayed as fun, intelligent, and desireable *adults*. How many people think of us only as children, freaks, and/or asexual and have never considered the idea of us having a real life (including a sex life)!

As long as it's not sleezy, I consider it a reasonable project. (Did anyone see the movie Calendar Girls? This reminds me of that. Except that I don't think we want to get that nude.)



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13 Jul 2006, 4:13 pm

of course, here thre must be creative people, so the calendar or the project or whatever can't do but fill the expectations, it must be creative. Not a "charity calendar", but a calendar the people would actually want to hang on their walls...



AaronAgassi
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13 Jul 2006, 4:30 pm

Allow me pose a question to you all:
How do you propose to engage your reader?


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13 Jul 2006, 4:33 pm

I'd like to nominate Anna and Hadapurpura to serve on the editorial committee.
:jester:



AaronAgassi
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13 Jul 2006, 4:42 pm

You are, quite literally, irrelevant, MrMark. Managerially, you streamline internal process by utterly disregarding any point or purpose pertinent or beneficial to external reality. Indeed, Zen is futility.


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13 Jul 2006, 4:55 pm

You are, quite literally, incoherent, AaronAgassi.



U C WAT I DID THAR????


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AaronAgassi
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13 Jul 2006, 5:18 pm

Not one bit.



Anna
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13 Jul 2006, 7:06 pm

aspiegirl2 wrote:
I think if a calender was to be made, there should be information about Asperger's/autism in general instead of only pictures of our us or our interests.

<snip>
I think a product like that displayed in other peoples' homes could probably increase awareness on Asperger's and ASD's, which could be a good thing.


You make some very good points here. Great ideas.



Anna
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13 Jul 2006, 7:08 pm

MrMark wrote:
I'd like to nominate Anna and Hadapurpura to serve on the editorial committee.
:jester:


Unfortunately, I must decline. I am starting Stanford this fall and expect to have no free time. However, do post a request for submissions on the list - I may just send a photo.



riley
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13 Jul 2006, 11:38 pm

MrMark,
Please do not ignore this..

Why have you not adressed the very valid concerns that this may have negative effects on aspie women? Aaron is right.. you've been ignoring valid points.. you said you really care about aspie social issues.. so why aren't you concerned about the negative social repecussions this could have? You seem to be disregarding the opinions of half the aspie community here despite your assertion that you are some sort of revolutionary.
I also still don't understand how it can improve our image. It is the male aspie image that is 'uncool'; not females.. and they represent the majority of aspies [if it aint broke]. Why should aspie women want to be exploited and depicted as sex objects? As women we already are.. again, you aren't doing us any favours.. you are only imposing your own ideals if how aspie women should be.

I know I made these points before.. but they got ignored.

You also posted this in 'general' and not 'mature' so you may also attract impressionable underagers who may want to take part. Perhaps you should request it be moved.. I certainly do not want them sending you pics of themselves.



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13 Jul 2006, 11:52 pm

Well, what about us aspie women who support the project? What's our say worth?



emc
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14 Jul 2006, 12:01 am

Australian Women in IT calendar..

http://www.itgoddess.info/



riley
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14 Jul 2006, 12:14 am

juliekitty wrote:
Well, what about us aspie women who support the project? What's our say worth?

Alot apparently. MrMark has praised anyone who's agreed with the idea.. and ignored or dismissed anyone who doesn't. He is pretending to be doing something good for the image of the entire aspie community.. so why isn't he addressing our points?



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14 Jul 2006, 12:15 am

emc wrote:
Australian Women in IT calendar..

http://www.itgoddess.info/


The FAQ on that site is interesting:

Quote:
"Isn't it demeaning to treat women as sex objects?

The Screen Goddess IT Calendar has already stirred controversy even before the calendar was printed, with print and digital media stories as well as blogs springing up daily.

While it's purpose is to promote IT study and careers for girls and women, has it sabotaged its own aims by merely pandering to and encouraging a view that women are just sex objects, not talented people who should be judged on their achievements?

Categorically I, Sonja Bernhardt, the screen goddess innovator, say no, it has not.

Every woman in the calendar is an intelligent thinking person who is accomplished and has made their own decision to participate based on their confidence and comfort levels, combined with passion and pride for supporting ICT careers.

Remember, the bottom line of this initiative is to raise much needed funds to run more intervention projects and programs and to have a sustained impact on attracting, retaining and promoting women into technology careers.

The facts are that to be a commercial success the calendar has to be visible, attractive and popular. Otherwise it will raise neither awareness nor the money to invest in projects to encourage women into technology careers.

Movies and media are constantly focusing on actresses and models who are attractive and scantily dressed and magazines for teenage girls devote pages to makeup and attracting boys. The "beautiful people" are, like it or not, seen as role models and women to admire. And it is not the media setting public taste - it is the interests of the public driving the media. And if that is what people want, is it better that the role models they see are limited to actresses and models - or should they see that a career in technology does not mean being a frumpy geek who can't get a boyfriend, but can be interesting, challenging, exciting and glamorous?

Is there anything wrong with admiring beauty? It is people's minds that drive achievement, but we are not disembodied brains, we are integrated beings of mind and body. It is part of human nature to admire beauty in other people, it is human nature to be sexual beings, it is human nature to enjoy sensuality, it is human nature to seek and esteem the best people can be in all things. And we do not despise human nature, we celebrate it.

On one of the most famous Screen Goddesses of them all, female novelist and philosopher Ayn Rand wrote that Marilyn Monroe projected "the joyous self-flaunting of a child or a kitten who is happy to display its own attractiveness as the best gift it can offer the world and who expects to be admired for it, not hurt." Our Screen Goddesses project that and more. They are women who are accomplished in their careers, confident in themselves, proud of who they are and not afraid to expose themselves to controversy in order to achieve their values. They are living embodiments of the principle that nothing in their sex prevents women from achieving their goals in any chosen field: without sacrificing their femininity, sensuality or any other part of themselves.

Don't you think using images like that merely encourages stereotypes of women as sex objects?

Sex is a fact of reality that most people actually approve of! But sensual images can only encourage stereotypes if people think that women can be viewed as either thinking beings or sexual beings, not both - and that is exactly the kind of thinking that needs ending. It will be obvious to anyone who actually looks at the calendar that it portrays women as integrated people, who are justifiably proud of their minds, accomplishments and bodies - as they should be."


On the website, they also show some of the pictures. They have the names of the women, but not their occupation. I think their aims would be better served if they added some occupation details or at least a job title to each picture. This would make a better connection between goddess and intelligent I.T. woman (and that is the connection they are seeking to make).