Adults with Aspergers Seem 'Normal' to Me

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So very well put, Tuttle!

With me, my condition is so invisible that even I can't pinpoint the exact differences there are between me and most NTs, although it is there. Often NTs come out with things what I've been thinking, and that makes me feel happy because I then think, ''oh, so I'm not alone in thinking that then'', and then I start thinking, ''so what is it what I do, say and think that is different to other people?'' There are answers, but the answers are very complex and so are unexplainable. The answers are invisible but do exist. Otherwise you could go on forever saying, ''but everyone's different, but in what sort of ways? How can 25 zillion people be different from eachother? How do you explain it? There aren't 25 zillion personality traits, so how can such a large amount of people be different from eachother?'' But they are.

It's so hard to explain and even think about, that it's given me a headache. It's a bit like asking, ''how many miles is outer space, if it goes on forever? There's got to be a number somewhere, there has got to be an end somewhere....'' you could go on and on thinking that and wondering what really lies beyond outer space. and then what lies beyond that, and beyond that, and.....

Aaaaahhhhh! Get me off this loop!! !!

Gosh, I'd never heard of this guy before - for which I am most thankful, considering that the first result of interest while googling is a very between-the-lines rudeness towards all those adults who were not diagnosed as children.

Just the words that I read of what he must have talked about are acceptable but I think I developed a good sense of the situational context and what is between-the-lines of written words (that are not directed at me so that I am not involved myself and need to think about different things such as answering).

And, well, judging from that, saying that one ought to raise a question of utmost importance why an adult getting tested for autism hasn't been diagnosed well before that followed by the next sentence in which he points out that after all, there are adults that have self-diagnosed and that their knowledge and belief in that they have an ASD will cause them to report "false memories".

The risk of encountering lots of such adults must be enormous for this to be one of the most important (if not THE most important, as indicated some awkward listing by him/the people he worked with at this) issue of diagnosis.

Yes, I believe a lot of who were so insistent, meaning those pedagogues, social workers, teachers, counsellors and what-ever-they're called with their short psychology courses that I must be intellectually disabled and mad, slightly later then emotionally disturbed and utterly rude (and that of course, my parent failed horridly at raising me and that hard-working and empathic single-mothers always succeed at nothing but raising nothing but manipulative little bastards) and manipulative for such symptoms as an inability to talk must be delighted about dear Dr. Dose.

I think I'm going to wretch (that's not too rude to say on here, is it?)

He's making it sound as if there's a threatening epidemic of (verbal) non-autistic adults claiming they have autism by trying to fake it in front of the diagnostician that need to have their diagnoses corrected into something other than AS/HFA.

Last time I checked - and I check frequently given my autism and the issues I ran into as a young adult - that a diagnosis of any form of autism by itself is very worthless beyond self-satisfaction if someone desires that. So it's not like people get something for free for flaunting about their diagnosis of AS if it's nothing but a joke that they have it.

Saying that what a possibly autistic person tells about themselves and their problems and autism is not reliable enough is horrendous considering how social and communicative impairments don't often lead to an excess of people you're in contact with close enough to make them relevant for a diagnosis, who are not too emotionally involved with you and are happy to offer a very objective report about your behaviours that thanks to their personal knowledge of autism doesn't scare them off, freak them out and that doesn't get utterly misinterpreted by them (and taken personally).

Or maybe, that knowledge of autism again clouds their judgement so it's better they don't know a thing and simply report that you're manipulative and moody for not eating a very tasty food that they bought you and that you always ate before (from another brand or so but I doubt they'd remember to mention this important detail), using this as an example that you are overly flexible and do not seem to follow any routines (of common sense).

I know my mom is a bright, curious and at times very observant woman but she really didn't get my huge issues with the unexpected and changes and such before at all. The details are lost on most normal people, they don't notice when things are a little different while I am forced to notice how profound changes tend to be.

Right, why does it make me angry?

Because that reminds me quite of how children with an intellectual disability are very lucky indeed to receive help if they turn up in school, bruised and explaining in hard to understand language that it was their parents who caused the bruise (and how) - they have a diagnosis of mental retardation, maybe they just mixed something up, so who's want to investigate on the word of such a child alone?

I was astonished to hear that their disorder means to a lot of people that they are generally not to be taken as seriously as someone without it. There was this kid with his bruise all over the side of his face and who could describe very well what had happened to him and... nothing, end of story.

Of course, whatever people say is to be taken carefully but it isn't very useful to start from "people cannot reflect on the truth and what they say is always likely to be wrong" as opposed to "there's a fair amount of truth in what people say". I can say that the former did not help me much understanding people, very unlike the later which is what most people seem to operate on in whatever kinds of relationships.

I guess Dr. Dose would find me to be very non-autistic if nothing but for my utilisation of sarcasm (mixed with some figurative language) in this post.

Now, I will only have to make sure not to accidentally run into him when I get re-retested. That's to say, if I ever manage to call a place asking if they can tell apart AS from classical autism. The issue of how to get there despite and how to talk to them will have to come after that.

The person who (unofficially) diagnosed me at the Autismusambulanz here put me in touch with a lady who had been diagnosed by Dr Dose, thinking that this was doing both of us a favour as she has connections with the UK, like I do, and that we could exchange experiences or help each other or whatever. Unfortunately, she immediately told me that the person who had diagnosed me lacked the qualifications to do so and that Dr Dose, who diagnosed her, says that it is a huge problem that too many people in Germany are being misdiagnosed as aspies. She urged me to get a formal diagnosis from someone such as Dr Dose, which is fine except there are huge waiting lists, which I am now on, though I think they've forgotten me. I've been floundering around in a state of uncertainty for some months now. I can see the point in restricting diagnosis to really severe cases, as Prof Dose seems to want. However, I think that people who had obvious autistic traits in childhood which still affect their everyday functioning now (like me, for example) need something similar to a diagnosis to enable them to categorize their difficulties, difference, life and selves. I think it really is a spectrum and that it will be much better if one day we get to the stage where people can be helped to see their place on it, regardless of the level of severity. I know I'm not severely impaired, Prof Dose, but I also know what I have experienced in my 58 years of life and am pretty sure that I know why and I'd like a professional such as yourself to confirm that. End of rant.

Hmm, I slipped into a bit of a sweeping generalisation there. Ooops. I should have said the main school of thought is that it's not biological. Part of my undergraduate degree was in autism studies and we were taught about this difference in approach as part of our work looking at prevalence rates. It probably contributes to the difference in awareness levels too. If the general attitude is that a condition is biological in origin it's more ok to talk about it. Whereas if society sees it as a result of poor parenting or lack of love or whatever, it carries greater stigma and people want to hide it. (Unless you're somewhere like South Korea where stigma of being a failed parent is considered a better option than the stigma of genetic defects within the family)

@ sora

From browsing the aspies.de forum in Germany, there seems to be a lot of emphasis on whether one qualifies for a SBA (disability card) and this seems to be a major reason for wanting a diagnosis in many cases. I suppose if a "diagnosis" automatically qualifies you for disability benefits of some kind then it needs to be able to distinguish between those who can cope and those who can't. Personally I have staggered through life as best I can and don't want to claim any sort of government help, but it is obvious that there are people who do need that help and it is right that they and not I should be "diagnosed" in the sense of being found unable to cope if they can't cope and I can. (But that doesn't alter the fact that I seem to be on the spectrum as far as I can tell as a layman in medicine but someone familiar with myself).

As regards the stigma of failed parenting, as soon as I tried to ask my father about my behaviour as a toddler (which I am 100% sure must have been full of hand-flapping and other stimming behaviours) he just clammed up and denied even autistic-looking things that I only knew about because HE had told me about them at some time in the past in order to embarrass me. It's really ironic because I had always assumed that I "just" had a schizoid personality, which WOULD have been caused by poor parenting if it were the case, and an AS diagnosis would mean that my parents were in no way to blame for the way I turned out.

I'd never considered myself to be the 'victim' of a cold to be quite honest.

People get bullied at school for all sorts of reasons, many completely unconnected with being autistic eg for being overweight or unattractive - are there special DSM diagnoses for being fat/ugly? Nope thought not - these people just have to get on with it, so as far as I'm concerned so can I!

Life is essentially very cruel and if a person constantly plays the victim card they will get short shrift from the majority - that's a fact

There are differing styles of thinking and communication - some more common than others - that does not mean that the thinking/communication style common to some people with
Aspergers is abnormal - it's just a natural human variant

I've come across numerous people who say they have Asperger's who seem to epitomise what people tend to classify as 'NT' thinking and communication styles so we aren't even comparing apples with apples a lot of the time!

I get on best with kind, thoughtful, intelligent people WHATEVER their thinking/communication style

I have no more in common with another person with Aspergers than I do with a person with asthma! It's the intelligence level that will determine whether we get on, certainly not whether they say they have Aspergers

The best 'joke' of all is that the DSM-IV that you seem to put such great faith in, as if it were the Oracle of Delphi, has decreed that Asperger's Syndrome isn't even going to exist as a diagnosis anymore in May 2013 when DSM-V comes out, so so much for their staggering insight! So much for how necessary they think Asperger's is!

They think so much of your precious diagnosis they're jettisoning it right out of the manual!

In what ways are you 'not normal'?

If you can't see how dumbed down society has become even in just the last 20 years I feel sorry for you - you are a prime example of that very society!

You can say Asperger's is whatever you like - most people with Aspergers regularly do!

I prefer to dispense with a disempowering label

So why are you here?

Honest question.

Nessa, for some people the label is empowering. Having it helps them to understand themselves, to come to terms with who they are, and to move on and start to build a better life for themselves. It can be the key that opens the door to all the help and support they need to have successful lives.

What precious diagnosis exactly? Also they are just merging autism and aspergers........and finally I've read the proposed DSM 5 criteria and under it I would be considered to have autism.....but yeah not everyone on the spectrum has been officially diagnosed.
I see the DSM for what it is its a book with all the mental disorders and symptoms listed, used as a reference guide by mental health professionals, that is all. Why would I give the DSM bible like status? that would be pretty stupid actually. Also aspergers is a form of autism, so I think its great they are getting rid of the term aspergers and instead having an autism spectrum that people diagnosed with aspergers will fall under.

First one has to define success though.

Yes, I think the label "autistic" is very empowering to me. It's an acknowledgement that I am different, and that the differences are real and not character flaws; that I am allowed to be who I am, because it's something I was born with, not something I am doing just to be difficult. It's a badge of membership in the disability community.

"Autistic" is only disempowering if you buy into all the myths about it--that you can't be happy, that your life is worse than other people's lives, that you are inferior and to be pitied, that disability is something apart from "normal life", instead of being, as it actually is, a natural part of human existence. You dump those myths, and "autistic" can be a matter of identity, just like "black" or "American" or "scientist" might be.

Try it for yourself: Dump those myths, and then ask yourself why "autistic" is a bad thing. A lot of reasons will pop up, but you will realize that each one is a recording that society has imprinted you with. Once you knock those down, all you are left with is that it means you are different. And different is quite a neutral thing to be.

There's intelligent people on here, some of whom I can relate well to

My own relationship to the Asperger label doesn't mean I don't want to converse with some people who might want to retain the label

Having had my own personal 'epiphany' ie that I'm better off without the label, I am sharing it
in the hope of possibly helping others but it's not compulsory to take my advice - it's only my individual opinion, as all posts on here are.

But there often isn't any help and support available - there's none where I live that's for sure

Can someone please define what all this help and support actually is and where they get it from?

I am merely advocating self-help in the absence of any support from elsewhere - that seems logical to me.

I can see that for some people the label is important to them but it's isn't to me - it's been a positive hindrance