Don't cure autism now

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Yes I would agree with this: it ties into the law of equivalent exchange (if I may quote here[from Full Metal Alchemist])


And each person, whether autistic / Aspie, HFA / LFA, or NT, classify their brain functions as you will should definately have the choice bewtween whether they want to stay the way they are or change; whether they want to change everything or just some things - and without scientific research to understand what's underneath it all, none of that would be possible.

Well I should add that, to even imply an option for to cure a 'state of mind' is rather offensive and moronic, because these cure groups are basically implying that we're subhuman by doing so, and we need to be made human in order to be accepted. Society needs to understand us and accept us for who we are, just like the idea of multiculturalism tries to bring cultures together in society.

I'm not going to bother repeating everything else I've wrote in this thread, read it for yourselves and realize why I'm so anti-cure.

Here's something you have to think about (after all two can play the game, 'who needs a cure?')

I should note that this example is about either triggering or refining the Autism genes, to boost all the strengths and advantages of having Autism.

If someone came out with a cure from being NT, making you Autistic; which allowed raw savant skills in all realms of audio, visual, mathematical, imaginative, common sense skills, etc comfortably (basically making you a super-genius with an IQ of 300) in exchange to loosing most social abilities but retain a level of empathy and essential social skills; most NTs would protest. They would be stating the exact same reasons why as above about feeling subhuman and forced to comply, feeling the exact same way I do.

After all to me, you'd think it'd be more logical to cure people from socializing so unnecessarily in exchange for super-intelligent capabilities to advance civilization and culture thousands of times faster; and be able to factor in all ramifications of technologies they create (and could have prevented massive environment damage, in favor of finding eco-friendly means to support new technologies). Also, the world would be at peace because everyone would be intelligent enough to form universal understanding without irrational emotions or primitive social cultures clouding their thoughts.

Well, this social skills thing is hard to measure objectively. Am I lacking in social skills because bullies choose me as an easy target or because I am smarter than they are? Of course not. I think the lack of social skills thing is a red herring and what does exist of it is caused by social rejection, because a lot of NT people think that it is all right to push smarter people out of their lives.

When they drugged me they did it to try to make me somehow compatible emotionally with people who had an IQ at least 40 points lower than mine. Not only that, the idea of being normal, if normal is measured by the performance of my peers, is quite repugnant. It's a lot like cutting off someone's foot because he can run a lot faster than anyone else. On drugs I was missing part of myself. That part of myself I desparately needed. They drugged me because I had a bad reaction to being bullied. Who wouldn't? Why disable a person's natural reactions?

intersting video

The problem is i have dial-up!

Yes it always amazes me when they talk about kids who are severely bullied and then call it mental illness when they difficulty coping with it. I was also medicated and some of the drugs they used before the SSRI's were widely available were pretty strong. Or course people are not depressed when they are totally drugged out. That really only makes everyone else feel better.

Willow, it's clear we're completely misunderstanding one another. I didn't insult you, I was talking about parents who singularly treat their kids in a medical way. That is what I said. I said you can't treat kids, ie "focus" on a child in a medicalized way and still take care of them as a parent ought. From what you described of your family life and your kids and how you saw them, I didn't see you as that type of parent. 90% of the parents I have met offline, however, are like completely in medicalization of autism. They don't have children, they have patients.

I'm not going to stoop and name call, I don't know why people resort to that. It's bad enough that this is one of the very few places I feel I can come to where there are people who think like me, yet someone will ridicule and call me clueless.
Well, yes, I guess I am in a way. That's why I'm here. And a lot of other parents who are likely on the spectrum too.

Ok first I want to say that I don't completely disagree with what you're saying, but I think this example is quite interesting. As far as we know there is no reported case of someone having an IQ of 300 points. I know that doesn't preclude the fact that there may be, but I don't think you can use that to argue your point as it's not a fact...
Second, and here again I think the first law of equivalent exchange would apply ("To obtain, something of equal value must be lost") - it's the same principle as "to every action there is a reaction". If the "cure for NT" were real, and said cure would somehow raise a person's IQ to the point of "making you a super-genius with an IQ of (whetever [example of one of the highest IQs ever recorded = 228])" I don't think this person would lose "most social abilities but retain a level of empathy and essential social skills".
And though it seems "more logical to cure people from socializing so unnecessarily in exchange for super-intelligent capabilities to advance civilization and culture thousands of times faster", I think that we (as a species) need an entire spectrum of different neurological functionalities. Like multi-culturalism, it's part of what makes up the richness of our culture. (That being said, I'd like to add that a certain level of understanding of each other from both "camps" is definately in order right about now).
Lastly, this statement: "Also, the world would be at peace because everyone would be intelligent enough to form universal understanding without irrational emotions or primitive social cultures clouding their thoughts" also seems a bit hasty or even erroneous to me because here you're not factoring in peoples' differences in opinion and personality, interests and experience...
Also, here, you're not talking about a cure for autism anymore; you're talking about a cure for low IQ.

All this being said, I want to state that I personally don't beleive we should be necessarily focusing on just a "cure". I think that there's a lot of research that needs to be done and as I've said a lot more understanding to be had. As the article at the beginning of this thread stated, I think we need to find a way to cure the truly harmful aspects of autism (which I think are small in number in comparison to what most people beleive) and keep the good for those who wish to change. Perhaps then can people on the spectrum and people who are not truly understand and respect each other's world and take part in both, without ruining what's good about each different state of being.

I was performing a bit of a philosophical concept combined with satire Medusa, with personal opinion added to make it intriguing. Better clear that up and I'm sorry if I seemed a bit silly.

Basically my example is just a sentiment I considered and I applied it to general ethical questions, to make any NTs reading this, think these questions:

* What if they (NTs) were the ones that were seen as society's problem, and were subjected to the same scrutiny as us, because us Autistic people were in charge and thought like the example?

* What if my example was actually reality, how would they feel living in such a society?

* What if they saw a 'Cure NTs now' group on TV saying how NTs are so stupid and ignorant for a brain defect causing excessive social tendencies and lack of logical ability, and must get a cure immediately?

Now I know this isn't likely nor rational for various reasons, but to understand what I'm saying, you have to imagine it as if this was undeniable reality. I mean I like these cure people to put themselves in the viewpoint of an anti-cure for once, and realize how it feels to be told in stealth, that you're basically inferior/sick; and that you need a cure for something that doesn't truly need one for; when society can simply learn to accept us and only help when we need it instead?

That's what my example was trying to picture overall.

What a super-intelligent person loses is the ability to deceive because deception works against intelligence. The more cognitive ability a person has the worse cognitive dissonance is on him. Being lied to is also harrowing. The first time that someone lies to or about an intelligent person and hurts him that way, it is likely that the intelligent person will start to suffer badly.

The social skills that NTs allegedly have depend on deception.

That's a good line, and with that I wholeheartedly agree! And sorry, I guess I did take it a bit literally. but all this debating is a good thing, it keeps us sharp and teaches us to open our minds to different viewpoints!

I think about the only thing I'd really endorse is if they came up with something that could add to our capabilities - ie. add brain mass in ways to where we could be ourselves but still have enough to go around to easily hack it with NTs as well. Then again the 'having our cake and eating it too' way about it IMO is about the only way a chemical cure could actually work, otherwise it would just be prenatal screening and yeah, heightening natural selection. IMO if they haven't really sorted out whether the genome needs us or not thats still really dangerous, I still think again they're better off trying to look at things to help our deficiencies not smash where we excel and try to realign it, when they look at the fact that given more social skills a lot of us could be extremely good providers and advance society by leaps and bounds if we weren't stranded it would be really backwards and counterintuitive to try and smash us down into plain vanilla normal - they've already got enough of that to go around and isn't that a form of genetic dead-weight in and of itself?

techstepgenr8tion,

WELL SAID! I have always felt the same myself.

Steve

I just wonder if they'll ever start doing hardcore research into nootropics again - enough to maybe find something like that. I tried Piracetam, Aniracetam, Hydergein, Picamilon, Pyritinol, and to my dismay the only things in those that really seemed to have a huge positive impact for me were the psychostimulant effects :/.

Well, my only attempts with this so far have really been tyrosine and acytl-l-carnitine. ACL definately DOES help general mental health, and helps the hippocampus. The tyrosine DOES help awareness, and, if I got rid of the job concerns and retirement concerns, I SWEAR I could feel like a kid again! I actually DO get by on less "real" sleep. I'm even dreaming more and remembering more of them.

The acetyl-l-carnitine probably won't improve things with a 15 year old or younger. The tyrosine might not either. Maybe THAT is what changed me so much earlier.

Anyway, have YU tried this? What worked best for you? What were the side effects?

Steve

I think I tried Acetyl L-Carnatine - not bad stuff but definitely pricey and I think when I got the capsules they were really cracked, damp, and nasty (I think the GNC I went to got a whole bad shipment). L-tyrosine, never tried it but I definitely get it - its a dopamine precursor and anything like that'll probably have you feeling pretty good. For me I think I'm low on both dopamine and serotonin - both of which happens on a cycle I think. Another thing I need to probably pick up again is Phosphatidyl Serine and possible for a first time try Phosphatidyl Choline; both are pricey but the PS is for brain cell plasticity (so you can keep your mind in a state where it can change and learn rapidly) and I think the PC is a precursor or something that enhances the functioning of your caticholamines (sp?). As for SAMe, St. John's Wort, or anything antidepressant can't touch it - it does put me in sort of a deep blissful mood but also puts my mind in a really nasty fog where while my anxiety goes down my social functioning gets really bad, I get pathetic, and in general rather than having anxiety I'm giving myself all kinds of reasons that I should be (any prescription SSRI = more of the same).

I think that we're considered to be liabilities, only because society has yet to give us a way to reach our full potential. It isn't that we're liabilities, it's that currently society shuts out anyone who isn't uber-NT. If that were to change, things would become better.