10 Jul 2012, 3:16 pm
Blownmind wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
Blownmind wrote:
Rascal77s, you kind of missed the point of my post, which is common among us Aspergians, so I don't blame you. Focusing on details instead of the theme of a conversation. I have done the same many, many times.
To sum up what I meant; It's only logical that the brain of socially awkward people compensate in other areas, and therefore excels on tests not messuring their deficits.
Blownmind wrote:
I'm not here to argue semantics
(...)
Same as with a blind person having to rely more on other senses, and therefore have developed a greater knowledge of how to use them to cope. Members on WP having higher IQ than the norm is no more surprising to me than a blind man having very good hearing or sense of touch.
(...)
Same as with a blind person having to rely more on other senses, and therefore have developed a greater knowledge of how to use them to cope. Members on WP having higher IQ than the norm is no more surprising to me than a blind man having very good hearing or sense of touch.
To sum up what I meant; It's only logical that the brain of socially awkward people compensate in other areas, and therefore excels on tests not messuring their deficits.
(1)So now you're telling me I'm incapable of understanding your point because I have AS. I expect this kind of crap from (10)ignorant NTs, not from WPers.
(2)I'm not focusing on details, I'm focused on (3)you posting false and (4)contradictory information. You just keep this in mind; (5)The BS inflated online 'IQ test' scores that are posted in this thread and others only (6)serve to make some of the people on this forum feel inferior. (7)So does your claim that people who are HFA/AS have a significantly higher IQ than the general population when (8)established scientific evidence points to the contrary. This isn't an AS forum, this is an ASD forum and there are LFA as well as HFA people reading these "my IQ is bigger than your IQ" threads. The sad thing is, as Callista has eloquently pointed out 27 times over the years on this forum, IQ scores are often meaningless for people on the spectrum.
(9)Please feel free to continue your mental masturbation, just don't involve me in it anymore. Thanks
(1) Read it as you prefer, I didn't mean it like that.
(2) To me it seems that way, I end up having to defend details of a post.
(3) It's not false information when I give you a clear link to the source where, like you said yourself, the author is not sure if it is accurate. It's an actual quote from a real website.
(4) Yes, the list were not the same, everyone can see that. I don't see anything wrong with that.
(5) There you go calling what WP members post "BS", saying that only serves to insult people.
(6) No one can control how people feel, and if discussing IQ in a thread about IQ is insulting, then you should take it up with the moderators and get them to supervise those thread to be sure no one will be insulted from high/low IQ scores. I stand by what I said, our concepts of reality differs too much for us to meet anywhere in the middle.
(7) What claim? I said it wouldn't surprise me.
(8 ) I believe you are still talking about WAIS, there are other IQ scoring methods which does not messure AS deficiencies as well as WAIS, which I also mention earlier in this thread.
(9) You might get a kick out of doing this, but like I said from the get-go, I don't want to argue with you, but you seem to have pulled me into your web.
(10) I almost missed this one, you just insulted all neurotypicals. ...hypocrisy.
I wish I could do what you ask, not involve you, and I did try. I will leave you to your reality now.
edit: (see what I did there? focused on details
)Sorry I can't respond to this, I'm LMAO, seriously. Pulled you into my web
I wouldn't have a problem with you focusing on details if your interpretation of them were correct. And yes you did use my diagnosis against me. You could have just said that I'm missing your point, but you chose to say that I'm missing your point because of my diagnosis. You don't know me or anything about me, to tell me my understanding is flawed based on a symptom of AS that only affects 50% of the AS population is pure douchebaggery (is that a word?)
let me clarify my closing comment from the previous post. I don't want to talk to you any more. I expel you from my web
10 Jul 2012, 4:06 pm
10 Jul 2012, 4:45 pm
10 Jul 2012, 4:50 pm
deltafunction wrote:
What good is it to fight over IQ?
I honestly don't know the answer to that question.
I believe many IQ tests only messure fractions of our overall capacity. If you imagine our abilities as a big cake slit into 10 pieces, each might have a different size. 1 piece is perhaps messured by most online IQ tests, perhaps as much as 3-4 pieces are messured by the WAIS test, but we are built by more than that. Some people score 70 on an IQ test, but they can run a very successful business as a car salesman with their slick talk(I have a real example of this here in Norway, but I wont mention names openly in this thread). Others might score 170 on an IQ test while drooling in their wheelchair using a computer to talk. A test is just a test is just a test. People may be envious when they see that nice garden their neighbour have, but what they don't see is his failing marriage going on inside the four walls of his house. People are complex, and no one but themselves are able to see the whole picture of them.
10 Jul 2012, 5:00 pm
10 Jul 2012, 6:27 pm
Tollorin
Veteran
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,178
Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada
10 Jul 2012, 10:00 pm
Callista wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Callista wrote:
How in the heck can an IQ test be valid for autistic people (and people with learning disabilities and unusual brains of other sorts) when it was normed on a bunch of NTs and there are such huge differences between sub-scores?
IQ is, honestly, irrelevant. You can measure the brain by other methods, for example the vineland adaptive behavior scale, on which most Aspies score in the 50-80 range... When your average Aspie is scoring in the lowest 1% of the population on one test, and in the highest 1% of the population on another test, you can't say those tests are measuring intelligence, because they can't be measuring the same thing. What are they measuring? Probably how good you are at taking tests.
IQ is, honestly, irrelevant. You can measure the brain by other methods, for example the vineland adaptive behavior scale, on which most Aspies score in the 50-80 range... When your average Aspie is scoring in the lowest 1% of the population on one test, and in the highest 1% of the population on another test, you can't say those tests are measuring intelligence, because they can't be measuring the same thing. What are they measuring? Probably how good you are at taking tests.
The highest 1% on one test? Which one? Is that the Raven? I guess it would mean that a good Raven score while a aspie mean nothing.
But where you score better doesn't really matter. What matters is that all of these tests that are supposed to measure "intelligence" totally break down when people try to use them on autistic people. The scores that autistics get are scattered all over the place. When the scores are scattered like that for the same person, you can't say that the tests are measuring the same thing, and you sure as heck can't say that they're measuring "intelligence".
Say I want to measure your math ability. I give you ten different math tests that I say all measure your ability to do math. You fail two of the tests, get low scores on two more, get medium scores on three of them, get high scores on two, and get a perfect score on the tenth. With those tests, I've proven absolutely nothing about your ability to do math. In fact, I've shown that my tests cannot possibly measure "math ability", if "math ability" is a single quantity that you have either more or less of, because your scores on those tests were so wildly different. So the only thing I can conclude is that I am not measuring "math ability" with those tests--that, in fact, the tests probably measure completely different skills. I can't conclude a thing about your abilities; just about the invalidity of the tests.
So, no, it doesn't matter that an Aspie gets a good score on Raven's Progressive Matrices; it doesn't matter if he gets a bad score. It also doesn't matter if he gets a good score or a bad score on anything else, because the tests do not apply.
Stop trying to shove yourselves into boxes, folks. Forget about the numbers on your IQ test reports. "Intelligence" is something the NT world made up because they got the idea that everybody's all the same. Well, we aren't. If you think the IQ test says anything about you, you're buying into the idea that you can be judged on NT standards. Fact is, once you get away from the norm--and make no mistake, we are far away from the norm--IQ tests just don't apply. All they test about us are how good we are at taking IQ tests.
10 Jul 2012, 10:25 pm
deltafunction wrote:
Blownmind, I would not take the results of an IQ test as an exact, overall measure of someone's intelligence. Just like any test or survey, it is subject to error. And in this case, the well-being of the person involved in the test can greatly influence the results. If they are tired, or are having problems in their life for example, their focus may be off. Also, if they spoke English as a Second Language, they may have trouble with the vocabulary section. Or if they were not taught the math skills needed to excel in the math section, they may get a low score on that. Those are just some examples of how people's environments can change the outcome of their IQ test.
People come from different backgrounds here on WP, and it is not fair to say that their IQ score is an exact measurement of their intelligence. Plus it is a test developed for NTs, not people with AS. Many NTs would label us stupid because we are not able to perform at their level on social "tests".
People come from different backgrounds here on WP, and it is not fair to say that their IQ score is an exact measurement of their intelligence. Plus it is a test developed for NTs, not people with AS. Many NTs would label us stupid because we are not able to perform at their level on social "tests".
We agree on this, no need to convince me.
deltafunction wrote:
Would you say that they had a fair assessment of our intelligence, just by looking at that one aspect of ourselves?
Of course not, I just wrote the answer in the previous post; people are multifaceted.
10 Jul 2012, 11:26 pm
Blownmind wrote:
We agree on this, no need to convince me.
Of course not, I just wrote the answer in the previous post; people are multifaceted.
Of course not, I just wrote the answer in the previous post; people are multifaceted.
Oh... Hmm... Then I don't know what the argument was about in the first place
Never mind then
11 Jul 2012, 12:30 am
man-hands
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 68
Location: Sonoran Desert---aaack---get me out of here!
11 Jul 2012, 5:27 pm
Somberlain
Deinonychus
Joined: 20 Jun 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 362
Location: Land of Seven Horizons
11 Jul 2012, 5:56 pm
11 Jul 2012, 6:10 pm
