It's confirmed: I must get undiagnosed: how?

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I understand what you mean. But there is a healthy medium.
The treatment of NPD is focused on reducing the abuse (consciously and subconsciously) done on others, and at the same time helping the patient to heal.



You might need a professional to help direct your efforts of self-improvement.

Oy, I do think even if you have ASD ,being sexually abused and having someone try to preform an exorcism on you as a kid will have caused its own emotional problems that have nothing to do with ASD. These terrible things may have had a slightly different kind of impact on you because of ASD but the problems themselves don't really have to do with ASD. If she's not helping you with these problems because all she wants to talk about is ASD and neurodiversity then I would find someone new if possible.

I read the description of the book. It's the kind of thing my old psych who did CBT would call "airy-faerie fluff". lol.

I think it would be better to have someone who gets to know you and help you as a whole person, not focusing on interpreting everything from the perspective of a specific label. Otherwise you aren't going to get much out of it. Also, you probably need someone that can be a little pro-active and push you a little bit out of your comfort zone. Otherwise you might not even be able to honestly figure out what you really want and will just be plodding along indefinitely.

Like in Jungian psychology - the id, ego and superego are useful tools for thinking about the different states of mind every healthy human has (and the parent-, adult- and child-roles in "Games people play"). Likewise with self-defense mechanisms. In a way DID could be likened to other personality disorders as it is normal functions exaggerated to extremes. The compartmentalizing is a very autistic thing in a way, as the autistic brain spends all energy in specific sections at a time, and not the mid-level allover activity that neurotypical brains have.

Question: Can identity disturbances (if anyone has these, I do) be found in NPD or only in Borderline and DID?

What I mean is, can it be a key feature of NPD? Because identity confusion and unstable identity are a huge part of who I am and what my problems are.

I score very high on the borderline criteria but don't think the core is emotional instability. Rather, emotional stability to the limited extent it exists is caused by other things. So either DID or NPD. I just wonder where these identity confusions come from.

Wow, you are quite articulate! Re the aspie compartmentalizing, this is the reason I think Tyrion is not autistic, as he does not appear to be doing that, but if the main idea is that he is trying to get a diagnosis but really doesn't want one, as then he might have to do something or other, face something, then all thinking and responses could be compartmentalized around that, but that is a little different, His mind is able to jump from topic to topic, but as if following a script. That is not quite the same as compartmentalizing. The thing is, the autistic really seems to have some kind of inner identity and to fix upon that, so encapsulation as a form of protection, meaning the autistic compartmentalizes his or her sense of self by selecting a part of himself, and then the particular focusing from that enclosure comes to represent himself....This is how I see it, anyway, and one of the main subjects of interest to me about autism.

Yes, DID would be normal functioning exaggerated to an extreme, but imo even when not extreme it is ultimately destructive to oneself and humanity. It is a form of lying and shoving sh+t under the rug. Can we say the s word here? I am assuming so as it is in the common vernacular to the nth.

Anyway, one could speculate the preoccupation with getting a diagnosis is autistic, but speaking to Tyrion, I get the feeling from you that one part is sincere and yet another very cold hard part is not. In my experience either one or the other comes across, not, as with you to me, both, not even with my rather scary roomer who in my estimation has DID. However, with writing it is possibly a little different, as a writer is probably trying to present a 'whole' dynamic or paint a picture including past context over time, so it might be harder for others to recognize the switch than in a face to face relationship, so a forum such as this may allow some kind of possibility for real feelings, perhaps.. Also, if the person writing has a serious split he may not realize what he is doing, so to him the switching back and forth would appear integrated, Again, this is just speculation..

Just saw this. Everybody has false ideas about himself and switches from persona to persona.

One way you can possibly find out is you have DID is by looking at several somewhat recent photos. The two identities look entirely different, and sometimes you might catch a photo of the protector. Same face but way different affect.. That is how I first got clued in about my roommate. I say somewhat recent photos because I think DID is not necessarily the result of one kind of trauma such as childhood sexual abuse but possibly subsequent experience or trauma can bring it on, such as when you were in the army depending upon what happened there or even sexual experience since the original trauma may have been sexual abuse or other violence toward the child.

Last edited by littlebee on 08 Apr 2013, 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, others say that some of my photos look like a different person and show different traits, as well as varying levels of self-esteem. The person who said that didn't know me very well.

Thank you. But then again I'm doing my best as you are a just awe-inspiring.
I'm glad you entertained the idea and thank you for the clarification. I don't know if Tyrion is autistic or not, but I started thinking about the co-morbids commonly found (simultaneously) with DID - many of the spectrums - autism, schizophrenia, bipolar etc. It would make sense for one such person to be very conflicting, and adding any kind of trauma would further sunder the sense of self. They are all linked to the same genes.
I didn't mean to paint it in a too flattering light. I feel that it isn't needed to reinforce the negative, even if the importance of getting help shouldn't be neglected.

I agree with the co-morbid part, though I didn't find that link very helpful, as if the child was raised by a mentally ill parent, there is also an environmental factor meaning his relationship with the parent or parents--people with 'strange' minds often mate with each other:-) but the details of the study weren't given. Yes, it may not be needed to reinforce the negative view, or in some circumstances it temporarily may be, depending on how you look at the dynamics of reinforcement. Also, if a person is using one literal thing to talk about something else, meaning any of us, even Tyrion, it may be necessary to take a leap. In fact in one vernacular this could be his way of saying "hello." I do think what you wrote is helpful in some way. The original post you made with the links about DID and identities and personae was very helpful to me as it showed that someone was really trying to think actively and even willing to do a little extra work (research).in order to really and not just superficially participate. That was kind of encouraging.


Anyway I think it probably never just genetics in cases of these kind of disorders but rather genetics plus environment.

The key point for me is that diagnosing will not solve the problem ,and of course Tyrion knows this. Even the right diagnosis, whatever that is (and at different moments and in different moods, personae or identities just about anything seems to hit the mark) will not and cannot solve the problem. Only the behavior that is the obvious antidote done in present time will accomplish an enduring result.

To Tyrion, probably trying to act or be entirely different is too big. Just taking a little step would be more in scope. So how would you or anyone conceive of doing that in your case or in anyone's case?

Wow.
I have many things I could write, but it is all just freudian slips like an avalanche and I am tired of editing. I understand every one of them and it is terrifying. I have read psychology for years, but this is something else. I am glad for what you're doing here.

And of course I don't think it is solely genetics, but it is very fascinating, especially if you're very interested in the neurological aspects as I am. I grabbed the first link I could remember, here is a better one http://www.mentalwellnesstoday.com/ment ... izophrenia I'm aware it doesn't pertain to this thread directly..

Well, I am interested in brain function--do not know if that is quite the same what you mean by neurological aspects--and also passionately interested in sociology and how the organization of one social system can perhaps affect the organization of other social systems in that we are all kind of generically interconnected (the giant living brain metaphor).
My thoughts on therapy---it is overly subjective, and the process is very iffy and from a financial perspective it can be very corrupt, but in terms of psychological theory I do not believe in throwing the baby (the possible truth of certain ideas at the core) out with the bathwater.

The thing is if there are all of these various syndromes mixed in with autism, how is a person going to solve his problem by looking at it in this way? It is too complex. If I am having bi-polar activity and going up and down, there is something I may need to know that could be very helpful. If I can see and understand what it happening this may affect my behavior, and maybe also there is something I could do that would change it, but I do not need to sort autism and bi-polar and BPD and DID etc. etc. out of this and that, though some way of framing might be more helpful than others to look at metaphorically. One problem but also a possible benefit of looking at things a certain way is that it can affect the thinking about it. A person in this discussion (forget who) has on his or her app something to the effect of---if you think there is something wrong with you, then there is, and this does make a lot of sense,s seeing the glass as half empty is a whole lot different fhan seeing it as half full, but yet as a slogan that seems to somehow be skirting around something because actually in reality there often is something wrong with someone, for instance is a person is self centered to the degree that he or she cannot love, or if a person is passive aggressive and causing pain and suffering every which way he turns, and not really speaking of Tyrion. I have been this way myself, and it didn't even occur to me there was anything wrong with me in these regards.

To Tyrion, I can definitely see why you would want to go to a therapist, especially if your insurance covers it, and maybe gain some insight if you are lucky enough to get a pretty good one, but that is very hit and miss---sometimes it can even be quite harmful to go to a therapist, and who would know till afterwards---or if not overtly harmful then like going sideways or just treading water--I know for a fact that a lot of these therapists are out and out ignorant and some, perhaps even a larger percentage than the average population, have serious unresolved psychological issues themselves, which is why they became therapisst in the first place, to covertly try to get some help.

Re bi-polar, I have read over what you wrote and think you should look at this again. as there may be some kind of correlation there. Will write some more later maybe and give an interesting theory I read about bi-polar. In short the idea is that the bi-polar person cannot bear the unbearable agony of waiting for things to crash, to be disappointed, so he crashes himself. This does sound from what you have shared here that in some way it could be applied to your own experience with the build-ups and the letdowns.

Anyway, I have never liked the genetic theory of bi-polar disorder. It has always seemed somehow off to me. Yes, there is a genetic propensity, agreed, but what does that really mean?
What are the implications of it,. that a person's brain is working wrong and so it is necessary to give some chemical which is even akin in some way to poison to fix it? Maybe this is over simplifying, but I am just giving a general idea.

I mean the physiological when I talk about neurology, more the realm of DNA, and yes, brain function.
But wouldn't that make bipolar out to be a self-destructive behavior by someone that is born normal if we leave out all other context than environmental, if we ignore DNA? There is a current trend towards realizing that these differences are about being born with reorganized neurological structures, not disordered. At least in autism, and the other major spectrums will probably follow suit. Labeling it a behavior (or thought pattern, whatever the correct word is) limits the empathy possible for others (like therapists) in ways like calling a depression a behavior. And of course with empathy I do not mean individual-specific empathy either.
There is a very big difference between being born with a different kind of wiring and what version of being "healthy" one can aim at. That is not as horrible realization as one might think, as you can still be a whole healthy harmless individual, just not the usual type. Bipolar is not something to be fixed with meds necessarily either.
I did not mean to leave out environmental factors in any way, nor do I especially care about the separation of the disorders. I just meant that if someone embodies all of those, as apparently some can, then it would make some sense being more susceptible to splitting as they are different in some ways, and it makes sense those diagnoses are simultaneously co-morbid in DID if they are genetically linked. What I meant to focus on there was that realization. So.
Yes, sorting out diagnoses is not the right way to go if someone is planning on using that information to get help for one specific issue, as the OP wishes. Instead you search help for that specific issue. Still the lines in psychology are fuzzy, but they exist, and searching for the self-knowledge a fitting label would give is about a wish to become conscious about oneself on some level. Maybe not always a very useful way to go about it, but still the wish is understandable and good. And that there is resistance is also understandable.
I am fascinated by this idea you mention about bipolar disorder, please share more? Yes, I am like that in some ways, lots of them, but I've never thought about it in those terms.
I have become more self-aware since I started reading psychology on my own time - not a student. Yes I agree that many professionals probably have severe issues, especially as they know the tricks of the trade so therapy might not help unless the other professional is smarter. It is very sad really as some can be in denial. As I see exactly how skilled you are at this, you have made me very self-conscious in what I write. That is good as I see how the flickers of things come and go better, I am usually much better at seeing it in others. It is more than I am willing to admit publicly, if I would give you a list about exactly how much I know about myself - but don't think that I'm not aware of some of the issues and have been working on them a long time. And why I'm extra self-absorbed right now is that I'm playing the patient to your psychologist for the greater good. And because I have a feeling you would not take too kindly to if I tried to pry into your psyche.

ETA: This has also started a seizure (or something worse or maybe just a bad migraine) as I can't think too hard about so many things at the same thing, but don't know what moderation is. English is not my first language, so that and being agitated is a bad combination. You'll have to continue this thread without me, but I'll be glad to read whatever you answer. Later.

ETA2: Fixed some spelling etc.

littlebee, It is very obvious you're educated in this. Are you a practitioner?

"I mean the physiological when I talk about neurology, more the realm of DNA, and yes, brain function.
But wouldn't that make bipolar out to be a self-destructive behavior by someone that is born normal if we leave out all other context than environmental,"

Sorry, I am get too many layered and a lot of people have a problem understanding me. as I am used to saying one thing to say something else---meaning I deliberately developed the ability to do this so it doesn't just go into the mind mechanically...what is that old American Indian saying going around the web and quoted in many books in slightly different versions: Something like this: "Tell me and I may listen...show me and I'll understand....involve me and I'll remember....:-)

However because of my own imperfect theory I sometimes project that the other person can understand when I should not be doing that. (Not saying you don't understand), but I should make it easier, and had a dream the other night I should do this, but I tried to incorporate everything in all at once without going one step at a time. In my case it is a form of OCD.

I will try to answer your message one point at a time. You wrote:

I mean the physiological when I talk about neurology, more the realm of DNA, and yes, brain function.
But wouldn't that make bipolar out to be a self-destructive behavior by someone that is born normal if we leave out all other context than environmental,"

No it would not do that because the genetic factor is already written into everyone, though it would not necessarily make sense to completely leave the genetic factor out, depending upon the context. So when I run into this one person who works in a store who is ret*d, downs syndrome, I know he is ret*d but do not have to think about him being ret*d in order to relate to him, meaning the knowledge is factored in, but the environmental factor is ongoing as a person is living in accordance to the way he was conditioned, and it is back and forth. It is a living process. I think alot of what is behind the genetic approach is to feed the pharmaceutical industry.

The key point here is mind is not the same as brain. It is, in a sense, outside of brain, though not literally, but meaning the brain is f and thinking about it.. If it did not there could not be
learning.

I wanted this to be so simple but now I am thinking it is too intellectual. I wrote something else today on another thread today about the difference between smartness and intelligence is anyone wants to look for it. Have to go to work and no time to post the link.

p.s/.I think it demoralizing to think a bi-polar person is that way because he is born that way. I do not believe it is true. To me it puts him in a box. The mental health industry is very primitive in many ways..

As far as bipolar, if the mood swings are the result of triggers and do not have a regular cycle or just have a semi-regular cycle, why would you say that bipolar is accurate? Doesn't bipolar require sleep disturbances during the manic phases? I actually only have insomnia when I'm depressed.

Can NPD and BPD as well as DID also have mood swings where outlook and behavior changes completely? I was thinking of the massive swings in self-esteem in NPD that take place over days, weeks, or months or the trigger-driven emotional switches in BPD that can happen over the same period or over minutes? It's hard to tell which I have predominantly, but it seems to be both to an extent.

The sleep disturbance during manic phases isn't required -it's one of several symptoms ( the Chinese menu option style DSM categories- diagnose patient when they have 4 of the following 8 or 9 symptoms (don't remember how many) for a week. I just had a psych prof who said that symptom was really indicative of bipolar and distinguished it from similar disorders. Something analogous would be special interests in AS: it isn't required, you could just have routines or just stim but studies have shown that most people with AS have special interests and it can help with differential diagnosis. So you could still have bipolar even if you don't have the decreased need for sleep thing. It's just a little less likely. I definitely think you should bring up bipolar as a possibility when discussing this with your psych as well as the personality disorders you researched. I believe BPD also causes mood swings -I'm not sure about NPD but other things can explain mood swings.
Manic episodes usually have triggers but it's possible you're not aware of the triggers and I'm pretty sure triggers aren't required for diagnosis. The cycles don't have to be really regular.

Do you have a massive headache yet? Psych disorders overlap a lot...no clear distinctions among them. It's subjective to a certain extent- based on behavioral symptoms.