22 Apr 2013, 11:53 am
whirlingmind wrote:
daydreamer84
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22 Apr 2013, 1:41 pm
^^^
The orange one reminded me of Crookshanks from Harry Potter. He was supposed to be ugly in the books but he was wise and intuitive and a hero- he saved the day in The Prisoner of Azkaban. LOL. Actually I think this image is rather cute but then I'll always be biased in favour of orange and ginger cats.
whirlingmind
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22 Apr 2013, 1:51 pm
whirlingmind
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22 Apr 2013, 1:54 pm
Raziel wrote:
whirlingmind I have more and more the feeling that you seem to take this a bit too serious that many people here like cats?!
Errr, it was humour. I'm not taking anything seriously - I'm making humour. Tip: when people are in a serious mood or taking something seriously, they don't crack jokes or make humour. I thought the photos were so hilariously extreme at least that much would be obvious. It appears you have taken my humour seriously!
22 Apr 2013, 6:41 pm
whirlingmind wrote:
Marybird wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
If there is some sort of affinity between people on the spectrum and cats, I doubt it's more prevalent than the general population, it's just for a different reason. I would imagine it's because cats don't make excessive demands, they maintain a distance unless they want some warmth (which is the only reason they want to sit on your lap and be stroked, it's not because they "love" you).
This comment makes me question how much actual exposure you've had to cats, and why you are overreacting to the notion of "anthropomorphizing" cats that you rush to an extreme opposite as if it is somehow more accurate to simply deny any similarities. I think there's a risk of people falling for notions of "human exceptionalism" wherein humans are special and animals only act from very basic, very simple motives, despite having neurologies with similar structures and functions.
The science is also leaving this perspective behind. I don't think that what you wrote is actually accepted by many behavioral researchers these days, and it fails to explain the full range of animal behaviors.
Perhaps it is anthropomorphizing these emotions to claim they belong only to humans.
Also, cats can manipulate human emotions: http://www.livescience.com/5556-cats-co ... finds.html
And look at this: http://news.discovery.com/animals/zoo-a ... 110224.htm
I've had a lot of exposure to cats, I have lived in two separate houses for long periods where each person I shared with in each of those houses owned three cats apiece. Overreacting is the wrong terminology and implies a high level of emotion. I was totally calm when I made my comments and was not feeling emotional when I wrote them. I also don't agree that it's an extreme view or that I rushed to that view (it was formed over time and much observation of cats). You are making wild assumptions based on your defensiveness because you are a cat-lover.
If you can show me proof that I am wrong I will be willing to accept that proof. However, behavioural researchers can only ever hypothesise until such proof exists, and just because they don't understand all the facts yet doesn't mean you can fit this to mean what you want it to mean. The reason humans have such long gestations compared to most other animals, and the reason the young stay with the parents for so very long compared to I would imagine *all* other animals, is because our brains are so much more complex and capable of so much more and it takes that long to create a brain capable of everything humans can do, as well as continue that learning process.
Are you saying that a cat has the same amount of connections and brain ratio as a human being? Again, I stand to be corrected but I highly doubt that this is the case.
What you say about cats manipulating human emotions is part of my very point. Cats are highly selfish creatures, they are only interested in their needs - hence the manipulation! Thanks for the links, I've had a look but there was nothing in them to change my views.
The primary difference between the brains of humans and other mammals is that we have a larger and more developed neo cortex.
The neo cortex is involved in higher functions such as sensory perception, generation of motor commands, spatial reasoning, conscious thought, reasoning, logic, and language.
Emotions are instincts that originate in the Limbic System, part of the old brain that we share with animals.
Therefore it makes no sense to assume that cats do not have the same capacity to love as we do.
However, saying that cats are manipulative and selfish, is anthropomorphizing.
whirlingmind, you could use a cute kitty avatar.
The above emboldened parts in your post, would all be necessary to have emotion, so humans having larger ones have developed the ability for complex emotions that cats and other animals haven't. You have said that the human neo cortex is larger and more developed, and it would as I've said be vital for the formation of complex emotions and yet then you say that cats have the same capacity as humans for those emotions.
Here: http://www.psycheducation.org/emotion/brain%20pix.htm it says we only partly understand what parts of the brain are responsible for emotions anyway and that (which concurs with what I said) that emotions (or mood) are likely affected by several parts of the brain.
You do not have enough information to know what emotions animals feel. I said it makes no sense to assume animals cannot love as humans do. To most people it is obvious that they do.
Quote:
I wouldn't agree love is an instinct. Attraction is an instinct, but most animals do not mate for life as humans do and as long as they have sown their seed they've done their job.
And this is not also a human characteristic lol?
Some non-human animals mate for life. Some human animals mate for life. If love were not an instinct, mammals would not care for their young.
Quote:
Selfishness is placing concern with oneself or one's own interests above the well-being or interests of others.[1][2] Selfishness is the opposite of altruism or selflessness.
Selfish is certainly not a behaviour peculiar to humans, in fact you have anthropomorphised the word itself by what you have said. Regarding manipulation, you haven't read Verdandi's link then (in her above post, and which she also used the word 'manipulate' to make the opposing point to mine), in which the researchers say (amongst other things):
Cats Do Control Humans, Study Finds
McComb got the idea for the study from her experience with her own cat, who would consistently wake her up in the mornings with a very insistent purr. After speaking with other cat owners, she learned that some of their cats also made the same type of call. As a scientist who studies vocal communication in mammals, she decided to investigate the manipulative meow.
The hilarious thing is, that when I Googled the word 'selfish', fourth on the list of options was a row of photos - the first of which was of a cat!
Selfish is certainly not a behaviour peculiar to humans, in fact you have anthropomorphised the word itself by what you have said. Regarding manipulation, you haven't read Verdandi's link then (in her above post, and which she also used the word 'manipulate' to make the opposing point to mine), in which the researchers say (amongst other things):
Cats Do Control Humans, Study Finds
McComb got the idea for the study from her experience with her own cat, who would consistently wake her up in the mornings with a very insistent purr. After speaking with other cat owners, she learned that some of their cats also made the same type of call. As a scientist who studies vocal communication in mammals, she decided to investigate the manipulative meow.
The hilarious thing is, that when I Googled the word 'selfish', fourth on the list of options was a row of photos - the first of which was of a cat!
Cats are not consciously manipulative as some humans are. It is more like a parent child relationship. Domestic cats were bred to retain infantile characteristics.
whirlingmind
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22 Apr 2013, 7:10 pm
Marybird wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
I wouldn't agree love is an instinct. Attraction is an instinct, but most animals do not mate for life as humans do and as long as they have sown their seed they've done their job.
And this is not also a human characteristic lol? It's a characteristic, but we do also possess love. Very few animals mate for life.
Some non-human animals mate for life. Some human animals mate for life. If love were not an instinct, mammals would not care for their young. Caring for young is again, survival instinct.
whirlingmind wrote:
Selfishness is placing concern with oneself or one's own interests above the well-being or interests of others.[1][2] Selfishness is the opposite of altruism or selflessness.
Selfish is certainly not a behaviour peculiar to humans, in fact you have anthropomorphised the word itself by what you have said. Regarding manipulation, you haven't read Verdandi's link then (in her above post, and which she also used the word 'manipulate' to make the opposing point to mine), in which the researchers say (amongst other things):
Cats Do Control Humans, Study Finds
McComb got the idea for the study from her experience with her own cat, who would consistently wake her up in the mornings with a very insistent purr. After speaking with other cat owners, she learned that some of their cats also made the same type of call. As a scientist who studies vocal communication in mammals, she decided to investigate the manipulative meow.
The hilarious thing is, that when I Googled the word 'selfish', fourth on the list of options was a row of photos - the first of which was of a cat!
Selfish is certainly not a behaviour peculiar to humans, in fact you have anthropomorphised the word itself by what you have said. Regarding manipulation, you haven't read Verdandi's link then (in her above post, and which she also used the word 'manipulate' to make the opposing point to mine), in which the researchers say (amongst other things):
Cats Do Control Humans, Study Finds
McComb got the idea for the study from her experience with her own cat, who would consistently wake her up in the mornings with a very insistent purr. After speaking with other cat owners, she learned that some of their cats also made the same type of call. As a scientist who studies vocal communication in mammals, she decided to investigate the manipulative meow.
The hilarious thing is, that when I Googled the word 'selfish', fourth on the list of options was a row of photos - the first of which was of a cat!
Cats are not consciously manipulative as some humans are. It is more like a parent child relationship. Domestic cats were bred to retain infantile characteristics. You are saying cat manipulation is dissimilar to human manipulation, which I do not disagree with - after all, I am the one saying that cats are different to humans (including Aspies).
22 Apr 2013, 8:15 pm
whirlingmind
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22 Apr 2013, 8:26 pm
22 Apr 2013, 8:53 pm
22 Apr 2013, 9:02 pm
whirlingmind
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22 Apr 2013, 9:29 pm
22 Apr 2013, 9:54 pm
whirlingmind
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22 Apr 2013, 10:20 pm
22 Apr 2013, 11:29 pm
22 Apr 2013, 11:33 pm
23 Apr 2013, 12:43 am
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