AS/HFA: The difference

Post Reply New Topic

PS : this doctor estimated that i am autistic because i reminded him of his autistic son , he brought me autism tests and my scores were in autistic's range s ....there were no specialist abt this issue in my country ...so i was not really diagnoised by a specialist and i was wondering the last few year if i am really autistic or not and if yes what category ? Afterall , i was just estimated by a curious doctor ,
but later i am self-diagnoised and i am sure that iam autistic but still I wasn't sure what type .
I sent a mail to a specialist about autism in UK without mentioning the estimation story ....just becaue i wanted to be 100% if i am autistic and of what type too:


my mail :

> Dear *******
I told the National autism society about my concerns that i might have autism
and they told me to consult a real professional online so here I ask your help.


My childhood story:




>My name is Samer Kassem , I am male and I was born in Beirut-Lebanon at 1982
during the civil war , when I first entered the nursery school of Lycée Verdun
(at age of 3 like most of Lebanon's kids) I prefer to isolate my self , and
unlike the others children I was unable to speak.....my teacher and my pare not
thought that i am ret*d or low-iq or something so my teacher in the first year
of nursery (who she ;was very nice as I remember her ) tested me with some kind
of IQ test for the mute kids (using symbols , colors , letters she ask the color
or letter and I pick the answer using my hands..... ) and I took a rate over the
normal the teacher was surprised ..... The only thing ;that wasn't able speak
not even able to look at my teachers' eyes.... for some reason the only person
that I was able to look at her eyes was my mother.
>
> Later I started also suffering from continuous vomiting for unknown reason.
>
>Sometimes my parent find me in the night walking and moving my hands oddly like
if i am talking to someone or doing something for real .....Mostly I remember
that I think/create some fable stories which I am a character in it .( I still
have this habit by the way but it s more work 's related more than
fables.....or when I think at night about my future plans .....I find walking
and moving my hands).
>
>The jardinière (nursery teacher title in French) reported that the first 2
words I spoke was "tayyara" (plane) and “avion” (plane in French) when a plane
passed and I was at age 3 and half ....but she said that I still was unable to
speak any sentence like the other children ....later I was able to say "bonjour"
and some other French and Arabic words. She reported that I pass most of the
time watching animals (the rabbits and baby chicken in the nursery) or playing
with insects.
>
>My relation with the kids specially boys of my class wasn't good at all and
since I was the shortest kid too things got worst (so I was victim of heightism
too), so I was rejected because I was " the mute dwarf " (this what I was
called) the kids thought that I don't understand what they say but I was
understanding every word that saying ....but I never replied. My only friend
was a half-African kid who was also rejected bcoz of his color and so he became
my best friend later (but he left to Africa later and I lost contact with him).
>
>I remember very well the second teacher of the 2nd year of nursery school was
very mean awful old woman and she slapped me at every time because every morning
I tell her "bonjour madame S." like any other child EXCEPT without looking at
her eyes and with very low voice and so she thought that I was impolite , when
she asked me to look at her eyes I didn't and so she thought that I was a very
impolite child and she treated me in this way all the time , She screams Enfant
impoli!!(Impolite child)
>
>
>
>My parent didn't know what was going on with me at school since I was unable to
express myself and ell them about my troubles at school.
>At 12eme I was able to speak sentences in Arabic and in French but still don't
lie to look; and meet people. Most of my grades at 12eme (age 6) and 11eme were
A and A + in calculations, but in oral were C and D and F...same in 11eme and
10eme. (And I had some troubles with teachers despite that I was so calm but
misunderstood)
>Later I was able to speak normally (approximately still some of my accent was
broken for years) but still I was judged weird by others because I don't like to
look at other's eyes and I like to be alone in most of time and get nervous and
red ....teachers and friends thought that I was over-shy .... (Well over-shy is
one of the syndromes of autism i think so maybe they r right)
>
>After visiting tons of doctors to know the reason of my continuous vomiting
that didn't stop during these years, only 1 local doctor who studied in USA (
but I don't think he was autism specialist) after doing a fast scan and tests
on my brain and I was diagnosed ;of some rare kind of migraine that cause the
brain to send wrong signals to stomach and causing the vomiting ....he
described a medicine for me ( I think it was Periactin) ...after using this
medicine for years the vomiting decreased a lot and then stopped .

>
>My mother (who is a brilliant math teacher for high school classes) tried hard
to improve my communications skills, she never really got angry on me...she
helped a lot and later I was able at how to interact with people.
>
>At complementary school, most of time u can find me reading books under some
tree..... I rarely participated in social occasions or in team sport games.
>
>At high school I dated a girlfriend ....who always told me that she finds me
"different” but she likes me for that ....
>
>My grades rate at school changed a lot during the years; In first year of high
school, I was too depressed because of my colleagues continuous comments and
took bad grades.
>
>The last 2 years my grades improved a lot specially in math and science
(12/20-14/20), in languages (Literature, essays , English) I was always very
horrible in general.
>I am know studying business which is a major that requires a lot of
communication skills ... and after I done my first years I continued my 2d
master in NT business (computer business, which it seems
>to fit for me better...) I am now able to present projects oraly " and I take a
not bad to good grades (but Igot confused a lot during presentations sometimes).
Sometimes my colleagues tell me that I am shy specially girls.
>
>Today I think I can make eyes 'contact easily but still always annoy me and
hate it.
>
>
>
>But still:
>-I find hard to focus on one oral conversation when I am in a crowded
>public places like cafeteria and class … I feel I am easily distracted by other
things (sometimes I pretend that I am
>focusing)
>- In class no problem when it s calm I can focus on what teacher saying.
>-I prefer to be alone, alone and all alone.
>-Trying to avoid social occasions
>-I love working on computers
>-I love animals
>-I love art (I am not artist though …but I like drawing in 3D on PC and I was
used to love drawing when I was kid and I was one of the very good)
>- I sleep with a pillow on my head (ok this is out of subject but my sister
always told me that s odd)
>
>
>
>I read this night about autism and facial blindness.......but I think I can
know the difference between a smiling face and an angry face.....but I don't
think I cared abt facial expressions when i was a child ...... I am not sure
about this point.
>
>
>
>According to the advice of The National Autistic Society, I did an Autism test
online (AQ test) and I scored 34. (As an aside note: my current IQ is about 116
according to different IQ tests)
>
>SO my big questions:
>
>-Is there any possibility that I might have some kind of autism or aspersers
syndrome??????! !! !! !! ! (If Yes, why and how mush the possibility? If No, why
and what is my case? )
>- Is there any true medical test that shows autism like brain scan, test blood,
genes or chromosomes test …..?Anything?

The doctor' reply:

Dear Samer,
Thank you for contacting me and telling me your story. You are obviously an
intelligent young man with talent in maths, computer studies and sciences.
There is no specific medical test or scan that gives a diagnosis for autism
spectrum disorders.
From your story I do think it is likely that you are on the autism spectrum and
are now most like a young person with Asperger syndrome. If you had been
assessed when first at school you would probably have been described as 'high
functioning autism' (HFA), as your language development was delayed. However
when children's language develops as well as yours has done we find they are
similar to young people with Asperger syndrome, so I think Asperger syndrome is
probably the right description for you now. Young people with Asperger syndrome
often have many talents such as being logical, honest and direct with their
opinion, a trustworthy friend and knowledgeable in their areas of interest. Also
you will find if you read about Asperger syndrome you will definately not have
all the features described in this group of people. However you may find it
helpful to read about Aperger syndrome and use some of the very good websites of
Tony Attwood or Carol Gray.
Best wishes Helen Wesley
Dear Dr Helen M M Wesley,


[u]



Later i discovered something new about my childhood so i sent this mail :


>Dear Dr ******
>
>First sorry for annoying you so much (I am soooo curious person by nature in
everything) and i want to thank you again for your great help ..... i think i am
coming closer to the truth of me .

I found out one more uself info today while i was talking with my older sister
.....for the first I found out that when i was at age 3 to 4 I was used to talk
some "unkown broken language" as she described like : "hum oka yya hah humma"
and i rarely spoke understandble words at this age as i mentioned before in the
previous mail....you may right abt that i was born with HFA first and not as
having AS.
>
>I was just wondering .....is this "strange unkown language" is a clue of
something ?



RE: Dear Samer,
The broken language is what we call jargon. You were probably imitating other people who spoke(not necessarily at the same time as them) as you had observed that people made sounds to each other. however it came out as jargon because you did not understand the meaning of words at the time. When your understanding and making words into sentences developed the jargon would stop.
Hope this helps
Helen




After googling i found out that jargon is a common trait in autistics specially in what so called HFAs.

So see ? i have an IQ 116 but i have HFA traits .....this why i don't believe anymore in the current spectrum .

Last edited by LePetitPrince on 21 Mar 2006, 6:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

Now forgive me if this addition is a little, shall we say, tangenital but I do believe that the differentiation between a difference and a similarity needs to be defined. You see, I've always thought you can tell the difference between a differentiation and a similarity but others, it would seem, think otherwise. Hm, yes. I'm a dissident to differentiation theory, then, I suppose.

^^ i am with spectrum concept but what i am saying that the current labels of the spectrums are wrong .....the spectrum should be divided based on a different thing other than just IQ.

I agree with giving different labels to HFA and AS despite that I truly believe they are along the same spectrum of severity with the same or similar causes in origin. But I'm a stickler for details and, to me, HFA denotes a different childhood history than AS. Someone who didn't speak till they were maybe 6 or so has had a different life than someone who was talking nonstop since 10 months of age.

For me, it's just noting that difference in etiology as opposed to truly separate disorders. To me, there's just a difference in severity in various areas-- the most obvious one usually being language.

There also is probably an immense difference (in some areas) between an autistic child who develops body language more or less typically, and an autistic child who does not.

Who decides what gets labeled as a separation like autism/AS? Certainly not Kanner and Asperger, both of whom had patients who spoke on time and patients who did not. But even if they had, it would be an accident of history that meant that they studied things differently along the lines of that particular trait. It could just as well have been any other.

Which is why I have a problem with that division. (Although not nearly so much of a problem as I have with the idea of a division between "HFA" and "AS", because there's much less evidence for the existence of an LFA/HFA split than for the existence of an autism/AS split, even if I think the evidence for the autism/AS split is slanted in favor of prioritizing speech acquisition as the most important trait for dividing autistic people.)

I just think we're all neuro-functionally related in whatever caused this (or at least we've all had similar results of various causes) and we're on a spectrum of severity. Language can be on a very obvious spectrum of severity which is probably why it's used so much as a marker between the levels of functioning (though not always accurate if someone's using it to measure IQ or something as I know you've pointed out before, anbuend).

But I agree, language is just one symptom which they seem to use to differentiate the labels. I don't agree that we're all actually different, except in symptom severity (which fluctuates even within a disorder) but I prefer the different labelings for their functional use. If I were a professional and had a patient come in to my office, I'd want to know whether they had severe language problems when they were a child and had to go through speech therapy for many years or, like I said, whether this person had been speaking precosciously and never needed speech therapy. (Although we all have communication problems, just some of us less obvious.)

I'd prefer to have that symptom summed up in a single label, since language is a very big part of life. Not that the other symptoms aren't important though but psychology seems to always love to overfocus on language.

If there's a difference between AS and HFA I'll be damned. AFAIK there is none at all. Absolutely none. And I have read up all the facts, trust me.

^^ what they are ?

I have been doing some thinking, I dunno if my traits are just my own personality or evidence I am more 'lower functioning' of autistic, than AS people are for example.

Well for one I learned to speak pretty late, age 4 for first words and 6 or 7 for complete sentences. Maybe because of my high IQ, I managed to catch up in verbal skills fairly quickly from a low base. I was fairly talkable throughout a lot of my schooling.

Nowadays I seem to have fairly high functioning, the only main deficit in life skills I have is in cooking, which I have not had much experience in accuring cooking skills.

However, I seem compared to others I have met on here, much more self asorbed, egocentric and deeper into my own world. Throughout my life I was never concerned with my extreme social isolation, my social interaction was restricted to family and school essentially. I was never concerned with being a loner a lot of the time in the playground, although I ocassionally hanged out with other kids although.

I might follow up on this later.

Could someone explain exactly what the heck "deeper into one's own world" even means?

I think LFA and HFA to a degree are subjective. Those with STRONG tics that can't focus, etc... might be LFA because they function(in non mental ways) at a low level. They MAY be very smart though. Look at Stephen Hawking. He has trouble doing just about anything, but he is considered to be vey smart. If he was autistic, they might call HIM LFA!

Steve

Well I was saying I am a lot in a world of my own, Reality to me is disorted. I've self conciously worked over the years to come out of my own 'world' mentally.

Rearranging the order of words in the sentence doesn't make it make more sense to me.

It would be more helpful to discuss the basis of evidence rather then clashing over narrow subjective personal perspectives

Are there any articles out there by someone working in the field which criticise any of the labels associated with the autistic spectrum that could be linked too, skanked off a site? PDF format?

If you are referring to: "deeper into one's own world"

It basically means the person is having less contact with the outside world. The idea is that cognition, etc... may all still be there, but you just can't see as many signs of it.

The EXTREME might be a dream or coma where the mind might be very active, etc... but you just don't see any proof.

For autistics, it might mean lack of focus/communication/desire. Heck, I don't get out as much as I did, and talk less than I did a month ago, so you could say I have "moved deeper into my own world".

Steve

That's really strange. And very social-centric. Although I have oddly never heard the phrase applied to people with severe physical disabilities that prevent communication. (And I have only rarely heard it applied to non-autistic people, who as a whole appear to perceive a whole lot less of the world than autistic people do.)