Board index › General Discussion › General Autism Discussion

Critical of self diagnosis - you shouldn't be

Page 8 of 22 [ 352 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ... 22  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

wozeree
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,344

30 Nov 2014, 1:01 am

btbnnyr wrote:
People sometimes say on wp that they want to have autism and are afraid of not having with autism. There was a quote about that in this thread earlier. And a thread about it yesterday. And currently. These are things that people said themselves, I didn't make them up.


The thread was worded like that, but if you read it you could tell what the poster really meant was that if it's not Autism they will be left without an explantion for the problems they are having. The same could be said of somebody who says they want tests for something drastic like cancer or MS, because in the end they just want to know.

THe poster was not saying he wanted to have Autism for the heck of it or for any other reason than to understand why he was having the problems.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,995
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

30 Nov 2014, 1:02 am

starkid wrote:
Peejay wrote:
B19 wrote "Autism is not a formal diagnosis. It is a way of being, a way of living, a way of perceiving, a way of experiencing"

My suspicions about B19's perspective on autism finally confirmed.

This:
Quote:
I too do not really need external validation to make things better for me


Does not quite jibe with this:
Quote:
Self diagnosis is personally helping me so much already I am afraid of compromising or even losing that….. in other words............. If it is not Aspergers what the hell is wrong with me! I`ve been trying to find a reason for 40+years and Aspergers really does fit me perfectly for myriad reasons..... At last an explanation for my personality . It makes me feel alright not all wrong. Knowing that it is aspergers lets me feel that there is nothing `wrong` with me I am just built differently from some.


Asperger's is an externally created and defined condition. You didn't create it, you don't define it, you don't refine what it means; therefore, it is external to you. Therefore, if your self-diagnosis of Asperger's gives you a sense of validation (as this paragraph seems to imply), then you are partaking of external validation, and the strong terms in which you describe it ("afraid of...losing that," "It makes me feel alright") suggest that perhaps you do feel the need for said validation.

Quote:
Surely the help of this label (especially as it is a way of life rather than a curable problem) for many of us is so we can help ourselves & find our own path in the world ....end of story.


If by "help ourselves" you mean seek treatments, official accomodations, disability, etc., then yes, the formal diagnosis of ASD is meant to help with those things. If you mean self-treatments, accomodations in your home or social circle, etc., then self-diagnosis is completely irrelevant. You figure out your symptoms, you find ways to treat them, you carry out those treatments, and refine things until they suit you: self-diagnosing has ZERO effect on that process and is therefore entirely unnecessary.

If, instead, you mean afford us an identity badge that shows we are members of club Aspie, give us a sense of validation, warm fuzzy feelings, or self-esteem, or act as a plaque commemorating our struggles in life (as B19 suggested in another thread), no, that's not really what the diagnosis, or just the term(s), is/are for.


All humans like to be validated, and yes diagnoses are partially to help with that...though also to help with potential accommodations and services the person may require to function to their best ability.


_________________
We won't go back.


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,995
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

30 Nov 2014, 1:04 am

Ganondox wrote:

I think this illustrates my problem with the validity of self-diagnosed. The problem isn't as much as they aren't evaluated by a professional (though that would be better than a layman), but that it's meant to be diagnosed from an outsiders perspective, not based on one's own perspective of themselves. People often have a very different view of themselves than other people do. Anyway, my problem with self-diagnosis isn't with people identifying as such or trying to receive support for such, it's when they are used as an example for the scope of autism. If we aren't sure they are autistic in the same sense, they can't be used as examples.


That does make sense, though I'd like to point out assessments to be diagnosed, usually include self reported history of symptoms/difficulties, so it is in part based on the individuals own perspective but also outside perspective.


_________________
We won't go back.


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,995
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

30 Nov 2014, 1:09 am

wozeree wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
People sometimes say on wp that they want to have autism and are afraid of not having with autism. There was a quote about that in this thread earlier. And a thread about it yesterday. And currently. These are things that people said themselves, I didn't make them up.


The thread was worded like that, but if you read it you could tell what the poster really meant was that if it's not Autism they will be left without an explantion for the problems they are having. The same could be said of somebody who says they want tests for something drastic like cancer or MS, because in the end they just want to know.

THe poster was not saying he wanted to have Autism for the heck of it or for any other reason than to understand why he was having the problems.


Exactly.


_________________
We won't go back.


rebbieh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,583
Location: The North.

30 Nov 2014, 1:23 am

Rocket123 wrote:
Before I was professionally diagnosed, I knew something was amiss. After a lot of research, I suspected that I had Aspergers. Then, after even more research, I realized that who I am could be explained by a Personality Disorder (OCPD or Schizoid), some form of Anxiety Disorder (including Social Anxiety), or a combination thereof.

My question is as follows - How do folks have such confidence that they have self-diagnosed correctly (i.e. going from suspicion to certainty)? I wonder if those who self-diagnose are, as individuals, simply more self-confident than those who are unwilling to self-diagnose.

Please note, count me as someone who, as my psychologist wrote, is “paralyzed by ‘decision indecision’”.


That's pretty much what it was like for me as well. I always knew something was off/different about me but I couldn't figure out what. I did a lot of research and found several things that could explain my problems: OCD, OCPD, GAD, social anxiety disorder, depression and Aspergers. I was never sure I had AS. I doubted it all the time. I doubted it when I found out there was such a thing as AS, I doubted it while I waited 1.5 years for my assessment, I doubted it during the assessment and I still doubt it a little bit now that I'm officially diagnosed (though I doubt it much less now and I now know those doubts aren't really rational).

I'm not really sure what I think about self-diagnosis but one thing's for sure: I don't get how people can be so confident in diagnosing themselves. I know myself very well but I still, very consciously/deliberately, refrained from self-diagnosis since there was no way I could be sure the self-diagnosis would be correct.

Like I said, I'm not sure what I think about the whole self-diagnosis thing but I'm curious to hear how people can be so confident when they diagnose themselves.



starkid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Feb 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,812
Location: California Bay Area

30 Nov 2014, 1:29 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
All humans like to be validated, and yes diagnoses are partially to help with that...though also to help with potential accommodations and services the person may require to function to their best ability.


Medical and psychiatric diagnoses may help with personal validiation, but they are not intended to personally validate anyone. To seek them for that reason is therefore...I don't even know what to call it. An abuse of the system, for one thing. But I guess if someone is seeking or claiming any sort of diagnosis to fulfill the need for personal validation, that in and of itself may indicate that she does have some sort of problem that needs to be addressed.

To be honest, I feel kind of stupid discussing "validation" because I don't even have a precise idea of what it is. I got the concept from what other people have posted about their emotional needs.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,995
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

30 Nov 2014, 1:36 am

starkid wrote:

Medical and psychiatric diagnoses may help with personal validiation, but they are not intended to personally validate anyone. To seek them for that reason is therefore...I don't even know what to call it. An abuse of the system, for one thing. But I guess if someone is seeking or claiming any sort of diagnosis to fulfill the need for personal validation, that in and of itself may indicate that she does have some sort of problem that needs to be addressed.

To be honest, I feel kind of stupid discussing "validation" because I don't even have a precise idea of what it is. I got the concept from what other people have posted about their emotional needs.


I am not saying that is the sole reason people seek a diagnoses, just that in general people like to be validated. Also having studied psychology I certainly did get the distinct impression diagnoses is partially to validate peoples struggles, maybe it has not always been that way but that actually is a factor that is considered much of the time.

Also if someone has an underlying struggle that has gotten in their way of functioning, why would they not want that to be validated? I doubt one would prefer that be ignored and be treated as though they do not have that difficulty.


_________________
We won't go back.


dianthus
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,138

30 Nov 2014, 1:42 am

wozeree wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
People sometimes say on wp that they want to have autism and are afraid of not having with autism. There was a quote about that in this thread earlier. And a thread about it yesterday. And currently. These are things that people said themselves, I didn't make them up.


The thread was worded like that, but if you read it you could tell what the poster really meant was that if it's not Autism they will be left without an explantion for the problems they are having. The same could be said of somebody who says they want tests for something drastic like cancer or MS, because in the end they just want to know.

THe poster was not saying he wanted to have Autism for the heck of it or for any other reason than to understand why he was having the problems.


Exactly. But maybe btbnnyr really can't tell just by reading it that it was meant that way.

I'm starting to think that what's really underlying this debate is that people here have very diverse styles of relating and emoting, and not everyone understands emotional nuance. Some are more oriented to discussing things in a technical or pedantic manner and tend to misinterpret emotional comments.



Norny
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,488

30 Nov 2014, 1:47 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
wozeree wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
People sometimes say on wp that they want to have autism and are afraid of not having with autism. There was a quote about that in this thread earlier. And a thread about it yesterday. And currently. These are things that people said themselves, I didn't make them up.


The thread was worded like that, but if you read it you could tell what the poster really meant was that if it's not Autism they will be left without an explantion for the problems they are having. The same could be said of somebody who says they want tests for something drastic like cancer or MS, because in the end they just want to know.

THe poster was not saying he wanted to have Autism for the heck of it or for any other reason than to understand why he was having the problems.


Exactly.


Comparing autism to cancer is apples and oranges (more like apples and shotguns). Cancer is deadly with far more serious complications than autism.

It's completely understandable that an individual would be afraid of receiving a negative diagnosis. However, the quote I have bolded is a double-edged sword. Though innocently, a person in fear will be a biased individual. That can be seen throughout all of human psychology.

It doesn't mean that a person in fear of receiving a negative diagnosis does not actually have the disorder, but it is a factor which increases the likelihood of a misdiagnosis - both professional (less likely) and through self.

You have said it yourself, that they 'just want to know'.


_________________
Unapologetically, Norny. :rambo:
-chronically drunk


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,995
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

30 Nov 2014, 1:54 am

Norny wrote:
Comparing autism to cancer is apples and oranges (more like apples and shotguns). Cancer is deadly with far more serious complications than autism.

It's completely understandable that an individual would be afraid of receiving a negative diagnosis. However, the quote I have bolded is a double-edged sword. Though innocently, a person in fear will be a biased individual. That can be seen throughout all of human psychology.

It doesn't mean that a person in fear of receiving a negative diagnosis does not actually have the disorder, but it is a factor which increases the likelihood of a misdiagnosis - both professional (less likely) and through self.

You have said it yourself, that they 'just want to know'.


For f***s sake it does not matter if cancer is more deadly...the point is much of the time people suspect something is wrong, 'off' or not right and then they may seek out professional help for it. Anyways we'd have to scientifically study whether or not fear of a negative diagnoses is more likely to lead to a misdiagnoses, to make any accurate claims bout that.


_________________
We won't go back.


starkid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Feb 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,812
Location: California Bay Area

30 Nov 2014, 1:56 am

wozeree wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
People sometimes say on wp that they want to have autism and are afraid of not having with autism.


The thread was worded like that, but if you read it you could tell what the poster really meant was that if it's not Autism they will be left without an explantion for the problems they are having.


How is that different than being afraid of not having Autism? Fear of being "left without an explanation" seems more like a reason for being afraid of not having autism, rather than a distinct thought process.



Norny
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,488

30 Nov 2014, 2:01 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Norny wrote:
Comparing autism to cancer is apples and oranges (more like apples and shotguns). Cancer is deadly with far more serious complications than autism.

It's completely understandable that an individual would be afraid of receiving a negative diagnosis. However, the quote I have bolded is a double-edged sword. Though innocently, a person in fear will be a biased individual. That can be seen throughout all of human psychology.

It doesn't mean that a person in fear of receiving a negative diagnosis does not actually have the disorder, but it is a factor which increases the likelihood of a misdiagnosis - both professional (less likely) and through self.

You have said it yourself, that they 'just want to know'.


For f***s sake it does not matter if cancer is more deadly...the point is much of the time people suspect something is wrong, 'off' or not right and then they may seek out professional help for it. Anyways we'd have to scientifically study whether or not fear of a negative diagnoses is more likely to lead to a misdiagnoses, to make any accurate claims bout that.


It does matter, because a person is relieved when they find out it isn't cancer, but not when they find out it isn't autism.

If an individual fears not having an answer, they are more inclined to follow a path that will provide them with that answer. Not having an answer is why people self-diagnose in the first place.

Just to clarify, by 'negative diagnoses' I mean the response 'no you don't have this/these'.


EDIT - I know this is only a wikipedia article but I'm too lazy to find any real sources:

Link


_________________
Unapologetically, Norny. :rambo:
-chronically drunk


Last edited by Norny on 30 Nov 2014, 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

wozeree
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,344

30 Nov 2014, 2:04 am

Norny wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
wozeree wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
People sometimes say on wp that they want to have autism and are afraid of not having with autism. There was a quote about that in this thread earlier. And a thread about it yesterday. And currently. These are things that people said themselves, I didn't make them up.


The thread was worded like that, but if you read it you could tell what the poster really meant was that if it's not Autism they will be left without an explantion for the problems they are having. The same could be said of somebody who says they want tests for something drastic like cancer or MS, because in the end they just want to know.

THe poster was not saying he wanted to have Autism for the heck of it or for any other reason than to understand why he was having the problems.


Exactly.


Comparing autism to cancer is apples and oranges (more like apples and shotguns). Cancer is deadly with far more serious complications than autism.

It's completely understandable that an individual would be afraid of receiving a negative diagnosis. However, the quote I have bolded is a double-edged sword. Though innocently, a person in fear will be a biased individual. That can be seen throughout all of human psychology.

It doesn't mean that a person in fear of receiving a negative diagnosis does not actually have the disorder, but it is a factor which increases the likelihood of a misdiagnosis - both professional (less likely) and through self.

You have said it yourself, that they 'just want to know'.


You are mixing up two different things. I am not involved in the main discussion about whether self-diagnosis is valid or not. I was simply helping Bttbyr understand what the poster was saying, as she didn't understand when she read it. She was under the impression that the poster wanted Autism. THe poster didn't want Autism, the poster wanted an explanation. That's all I'm saying.

I will add though, to help you understand why I used cancer as an example - I used to have IBS - for 10 years. Ten long years of nothing short of daily torment. No doctor could help, they just said IBS. IF a doctor would have told me I had cancer, of course I wouldn't have liked it, but I would have finally known. That diagnoses would have been information I could have used at a time when I was looking at a life time of daily torment. Lucky for me it turned out to be gluten and I am cured now that I stopped eating it, but 5 years ago I was DESPERATE TO KNOW.

And while Autism isn't the same thing as a physical torment, it can be emotionally, professionally, and socially painful on a daily basis. He just wants to know. It's not cancer, but he's in pain. Get it? If he doesn't get his diagnoses he's looking at a lifetime of not knowing, having no direction or idea what is wrong.



Norny
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,488

30 Nov 2014, 2:14 am

wozeree wrote:
You are mixing up two different things. I am not involved in the main discussion about whether self-diagnosis is valid or not. I was simply helping Bttbyr understand what the poster was saying, as she didn't understand when she read it. She was under the impression that the poster wanted Autism. THe poster didn't want Autism, the poster wanted an explanation. That's all I'm saying.


I interpreted her post differently. I am just contributing my thoughts based on what you have said in the context of this thread, because I presume that her post was regarding that.

wozeree wrote:
I will add though, to help you understand why I used cancer as an example - I used to have IBS - for 10 years. Ten long years of nothing short of daily torment. No doctor could help, they just said IBS. IF a doctor would have told me I had cancer, of course I wouldn't have liked it, but I would have finally known. That diagnoses would have been information I could have used at a time when I was looking at a life time of daily torment. Lucky for me it turned out to be gluten and I am cured now that I stopped eating it, but 5 years ago I was DESPERATE TO KNOW.

And while Autism isn't the same thing as a physical torment, it can be emotionally, professionally, and socially painful on a daily basis. He just wants to know. It's not cancer, but he's in pain. Get it? If he doesn't get his diagnoses he's looking at a lifetime of not knowing, having no direction or idea what is wrong.


Yes I get it, but that's directly involved in the point I'm making. That worry/fear of not receiving the diagnosis causes an individual to be biased in hope that something will relieve it.

When people comment on this board about receiving a diagnosis, their claims are of great relief, not one of despair (perhaps overshadowing relief), which is what I meant by cancer being incomparable to autism.

I'm sorry for any inconvenience I have caused.


_________________
Unapologetically, Norny. :rambo:
-chronically drunk


btbnnyr
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago

30 Nov 2014, 2:22 am

Having autism be an eggsplanation for problems in life could be a motivation that drives self-diagnosis, I think.


_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!


wozeree
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,344

30 Nov 2014, 2:34 am

btbnnyr wrote:
Having autism be an eggsplanation for problems in life could be a motivation that drives self-diagnosis, I think.


Having Autism explain problems in life is the reason for formal diagnosis also. People are allowed to want to know why they are having problems and to think that their problems fit the criteria of Autism. It's not a crime and it doesn't define malingering.