Autistic people have super powers? Are super heroes autistic

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Fnord
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30 Sep 2020, 3:59 pm

Aspies have no abilities that are unique to them.  Every ability an aspie may have is expressed in neurotypicals, as well.  It only seems otherwise because the general expectation is that aspies have no abilities at all.

"Oh, look!  He can ties his shoes all by himself!  Good boy!  Good, good boy!"

:roll: Mundane activities are NOT super-powers.


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wittgenstein
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30 Sep 2020, 4:06 pm

Congratulations on overcoming your disabilities! I don’t see it that way. I still don’t understand the intensely emotional reaction to the idea that aspies have unique abilities. In other words, my detractors prefer to believe that aspergers is purely negative. One poster after being confused by the math yelled, “FAIL!” and accused me of Solipsism! How math is an example of me thinking I am the only conscious entity in the universe escapes me.
Here are just a few of the abilities that we have in more supply then neurotypicals.
• The increased ability to focus on details,
• the capacity to persevere in specific interests without being swayed by others' opinions,
• the ability to work independently,
• the recognition of patterns that may be missed by others,
• intensity, and
• an original way of thinking.
FROM
https://www.medicinenet.com/asperger_sy ... rticle.htm
Anyway, here are my responses to the objections. Many of which are repeated here because they were ignored. I kept getting asked the same questions.
1, Objection; Remote diagnoses are worthless.
Rebuttal; Telling a doctor your symptoms over the phone is not worthless. Reading historical accounts of people’s behavior and using that as a basis for assessing their symptoms is not worthless. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mind_of_Adolf_Hitler
accurately predicted Hitler’s behavior and what mental illnesses he had.
2. Objection; You made an assertion and then tried to prove it.
So what? That is what science does. It’s called the scientific method! You first have general knowledge. I knew that many respected academics say that we have unique abilities. I then tried to prove that contention by comparing a list of famous people to a list of famous asperger people. That is how the scientific method works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddington_experiment
Note that the test happened AFTER Einstein postulated Relativity!
3. Objection; You cherry picked your data.
Rebuttal: How is that possible? I took 2 lists and counted only those people on both lists.
4. Objection; You ignored contrary evidence.
Rebuttal; OK Post your evidence that we have no unique abilities and are defined only by our disabilities. If we are not defined by our abilities and disabilities there is no definition for us and there is no need for Wrong Planet etc.
Anyway, Fnord I apologize if you thought I was saying that you did not work for your success. That was not my intention.


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carlos55
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01 Oct 2020, 3:12 am

wittgenstein wrote:
Congratulations on overcoming your disabilities! I don’t see it that way. I still don’t understand the intensely emotional reaction to the idea that aspies have unique abilities. In other words, my detractors prefer to believe that aspergers is purely negative. One poster after being confused by the math yelled, “FAIL!” and accused me of Solipsism! How math is an example of me thinking I am the only conscious entity in the universe escapes me.
Here are just a few of the abilities that we have in more supply then neurotypicals.
• The increased ability to focus on details,
• the capacity to persevere in specific interests without being swayed by others' opinions,
• the ability to work independently,
• the recognition of patterns that may be missed by others,
• intensity, and
• an original way of thinking.
FROM
https://www.medicinenet.com/asperger_sy ... rticle.htm
Anyway, here are my responses to the objections. Many of which are repeated here because they were ignored. I kept getting asked the same questions.
1, Objection; Remote diagnoses are worthless.
Rebuttal; Telling a doctor your symptoms over the phone is not worthless. Reading historical accounts of people’s behavior and using that as a basis for assessing their symptoms is not worthless. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mind_of_Adolf_Hitler
accurately predicted Hitler’s behavior and what mental illnesses he had.
2. Objection; You made an assertion and then tried to prove it.
So what? That is what science does. It’s called the scientific method! You first have general knowledge. I knew that many respected academics say that we have unique abilities. I then tried to prove that contention by comparing a list of famous people to a list of famous asperger people. That is how the scientific method works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddington_experiment
Note that the test happened AFTER Einstein postulated Relativity!
3. Objection; You cherry picked your data.
Rebuttal: How is that possible? I took 2 lists and counted only those people on both lists.
4. Objection; You ignored contrary evidence.
Rebuttal; OK Post your evidence that we have no unique abilities and are defined only by our disabilities. If we are not defined by our abilities and disabilities there is no definition for us and there is no need for Wrong Planet etc.
Anyway, Fnord I apologize if you thought I was saying that you did not work for your success. That was not my intention.


As Fnord stated any abilities are present in NTs as well so they are not unique to aspies it’s that expectations are lower for us that’s why it’s a big deal.

Most adults can tie there shoelaces and it’s no big deal but if a 4 year old can do it it’s impressive. Same principle applies.

As far as remote or historical diagnosis is concerned it’s unreliable because you need to ask questions on what the subject is feeling (it’s a mental condition after all) like childhood, anxiety, sensory needs and depression, illness, abuse, trauma and head injury to name a few.

You have still avoided answering my question-

Where are all these huge numbers of diagnosed aspies who are famous and have accomplished great things now?

It’s been 26 years since 1994 for most it prob would have been picked up in their teens and they would be middle age now.

A minority may slip through the net but not many.

They on average would have had a mental health crisis that would have been noticed.

I’m certainly not seeing them on tv or reading about them.

If all these influential people suffered from the same thing wouldn’t it be a Centre news Item.

Are people in the media always talking about ASD? No


You have simply produced a crude short list of old actors and undiagnosed historical figures that doesn’t cut the mustard.


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League_Girl
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01 Oct 2020, 3:33 am

wittgenstein wrote:
How did Wrong Planet quote your post? Are you implying that I have super computer skills?



There is a "quote" button on every post at the top right. You click that and it acts like a reply button but it shows the person's post in the reply box.


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League_Girl
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01 Oct 2020, 3:37 am

My super powers were:

Saying my first words and sentences

Finishing high school

Catching a fly ball

Having a prom date

Getting a job

Living on my own

etc.

:roll:

I mean I was basically praised and given brownie points for doing stuff everyone is expected to do and that a NT would do. I would always wonder "did I really have to work that hard?"


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wittgenstein
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01 Oct 2020, 6:24 am

I guess that some people object to the suggestion that we have unique abilities (on average) because it makes us different. Guess what cupcake, we are different! If we were the same as neurotypicals there would be no word “Asperger's”! All I am saying is that since many define us by our disabilities, they should also consider our unique abilities. OK , “superpower” is a bit of https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hyperbole. But it gets the point across!


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wittgenstein
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01 Oct 2020, 6:32 am

"As Fnord stated any abilities are present in NTs as well so they are not unique to aspies it’s that expectations are lower for us that’s why it’s a big deal."
Of course not every aspie is above average in certain abilities. I am talking about averages. On average ( as the experts say ) we are exceptional in certain areas in a good way. For example I may say that people with good eyesight have a greater chance of being an artist then someone that has poor eyesight. I am not saying that there are no blind artists or that everyone that has good eyesight is an artist.


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I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
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01 Oct 2020, 6:40 am

BTW No one should take anything personal. When I said "cupcake" I was talking generally and not to a specific person.


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I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
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01 Oct 2020, 7:06 am

""As Fnord stated any abilities are present in NTs as well so they are not unique to aspies it’s that expectations are lower for us that’s why it’s a big deal."
That was not my intention. I was not bragging that we know how to tie our shoes. I was bragging that as a % we do better at science and art then a neurotypical.


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I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
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01 Oct 2020, 7:23 am

Yes I am proud to be an aspie! Does that mean that I hate neurotypicals? NO! Its similar to Black Pride. I am sick of those self-righteous morons that say, " black lives matter? All lives matter." OK so if a person is getting stabbed and he yells MY LIFE MATTERS! Would you say, " what an arrogant person. My life matters also!" OR would you help him? People that have pride in themselves do not hate all the others.


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YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
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01 Oct 2020, 7:25 am

And yes, we need help from all the prejudice and stupidity! To make a difference we need the neurotypicals on our side. That is just the way it is. If we make it clear that we are not inferior and actually proud of who we are the common man will be on our side.


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YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


Fnord
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01 Oct 2020, 9:20 am

It is easy to understand why many autistic people would not want to be labeled as 'inferior' in any way.  The 'ASD' label implies imperfection.  Some may even take it to mean they are 'defective'.  Specifically, autism means your behavior is due to a poorly-identified neuro-biological condition.  To some, this is the same as having a malfunctioning brain or a mental disorder (i.e., retardation, schizophrenia, sociopathy, et cetera).  Understandably, emotions run high here.

However, claiming that autism is somehow super-power is equally ludicrous.  People need to accept that they have a developmental and/or perceptive disorder and stop trying to rationalize it with flawed data and fallacious reasoning into a claim of alleged superiority over more socially and professionally successful people.

If you have and autism spectrum disorder, just face it, accept it, own it, and deal with it.  Autism does not make you superior to anyone in any way.


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kraftiekortie
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01 Oct 2020, 9:26 am

I'm more successful than some people; less successful than others.

It irritates me that I'm less successful than some people. But that's my problem.

Any assessment of a person's merit would be incomplete and insufficient if one only employed subjective standards of "success.' Just because somebody's a great boss doesn't mean that somebody is a great person.

Some of the greatest people ever never achieved any sort of material success.



Fnord
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01 Oct 2020, 9:45 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
... Some of the greatest people ever never achieved any sort of material success.
Such as ... ?

By 'successful', I means capable of comfortably and effectively acting for oneself with and for others.  While material wealth may play a role, other aspects include intelligence, education, creative talent, physical appeal, confidence, empathy, compassion, and perhaps many more -- all of which are normal throughout the collective human experience.

For example, my IQ is higher than most.  This is not a 'super-power' any more than a bikini model's larger-than-average bustline.  It just means that I can reason quicker and more effectively than most other people.  Sadly, having a high IQ does not automatically confer the ability to work well with others; in fact, expressing my intelligence in a social setting is almost certain to inspire hostility and drive people away.

(Just wait for the inevitable reactions to this post, and you will see what I mean.)

Some people cite Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (the Mahatma) as an example of a great person who never achieved any sort of material success.  They are wrong.  He was a wealthy man when he died, and his descendants have also enjoyed great wealth and political power.  it was in 1921 that Gandhi adopted the Indian loincloth (short dhoti) and, in the winter, a shawl, both woven with yarn hand-spun on a traditional Indian spinning wheel, or charkha, as a mark of identification with India's rural poor.  Thereafter, he lived modestly in a self-sufficient residential community, ate simple vegetarian food, and undertook long fasts as a means of self-purification and political protest.

He only looked poor, but he was financially well-off, and he is still considered a 'great' person.


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kraftiekortie
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01 Oct 2020, 9:59 am

I read Gandhi's autobiography---he was impeccably dressed in Western dress when he went to University in the UK. I wish more people would read it, actually.

Think about people like St. Francis of Assisi, or Joan of Arc, or any number of people who did heroic things in war. Many people on the "front lines" in wars----then and now---were and are not successful materially, but successful in other ways.



Fnord
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01 Oct 2020, 10:11 am

Yes, material success is but one form of success; but to be successful at something on my own is always a proud moment for me; so much so that I often wonder what life must really be like inside the heads of those who either feel the need to pretend superiority, or who give up entirely on trying to even be mediocre.


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