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kraftiekortie
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21 Jan 2021, 1:56 pm

We should make sure we don't go down to the levels found within the "Alt-Right."

Or be like many Communists in China during the Cultural Revolution of the mid to late 60s.



Dear_one
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21 Jan 2021, 2:12 pm

^^ The distribution of sympathy is never uniform, and can be easily skewed. Until recently, sharks were almost universally loathed, feared, and attacked. Now, some people find that they can be treated like pets, and show appreciation. Baby seals get lots of people worried, because seals, who hunt in the dark ocean, have large eyes, making their infants even more appealing. So, the impact of our industrial fishing falls even harder on the endangered sea birds, out of sight. Panda bears would be pretty boring if they didn't resemble babies - big eyed, clumsy, and round.

The same principles apply to humans. A young, blonde, female missing from a hike will get a lot more attention than a plain, 50 yr old man would. Other groups come in and out of fashion, but there is always an element of novelty helping them, while the boring old majority gets blamed for everything.



kraftiekortie
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21 Jan 2021, 2:26 pm

I've liked a few "plain 50-year-olds" in my time :P



theprisoner
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21 Jan 2021, 2:45 pm

Dear_one wrote:
^^ The distribution of sympathy is never uniform, and can be easily skewed.


True and clearly evident. But maybe if you just beat enough people into submission through strict social measures (carrot and the stick type manipulations) then maybe natural state of things will begin to be "improved" and distribution of sympathy will one day be uniform. Then there will be no discrimination , inequality, badness in the world. And we can all live happily ever after in paradise. oh wait a minute , hasn't they already been proposed before countless times in various guises, and these efforts have only lead to war and death and unrest, and nothing was ever resolved. well maybe next time it will work. if its just implemented correctly. the ends justify the means right? cant make a omelette without crackin a few eggs.


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21 Jan 2021, 2:53 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I've liked a few "plain 50-year-olds" in my time :P

I'm married to one :mrgreen:


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Dear_one
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21 Jan 2021, 4:25 pm

theprisoner wrote:
Dear_one wrote:
^^ The distribution of sympathy is never uniform, and can be easily skewed.


True and clearly evident. But maybe if you just beat enough people into submission through strict social measures (carrot and the stick type manipulations) then maybe natural state of things will begin to be "improved" and distribution of sympathy will one day be uniform. Then there will be no discrimination , inequality, badness in the world. And we can all live happily ever after in paradise. oh wait a minute , hasn't they already been proposed before countless times in various guises, and these efforts have only lead to war and death and unrest, and nothing was ever resolved. well maybe next time it will work. if its just implemented correctly. the ends justify the means right? cant make a omelette without crackin a few eggs.


I hope that we are seeing the chaotic ending of a period of history that began with agriculture producing granaries worth fighting over, and will end when computers restore transparency and accountability to the management of them. In small tribes, the psychopaths were too well known to do much damage, but wealth let them create layers of deception. Systems management can serve us far better than rulers driven by self-interest.



cyberdad
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21 Jan 2021, 5:12 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
We should make sure we don't go down to the levels found within the "Alt-Right."

Or be like many Communists in China during the Cultural Revolution of the mid to late 60s.


Who is "we" ? there are 74 million who went down that rabbit hole



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21 Jan 2021, 5:16 pm

cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
We should make sure we don't go down to the levels found within the "Alt-Right."

Or be like many Communists in China during the Cultural Revolution of the mid to late 60s.


Who is "we" ? there are 74 million who went down that rabbit hole


Wrong planet I think?

I'm SJW enough that I'd rather WP became woke than it became alt-right.

Alt-right won't be popular for a while I think. America's the biggest country in the world, the average type of people to go alt-right get embarrassed by anything 'cringe' and the protestors at the capitol were very cringey...

Not just politically, I mean the stuff like the Viking helmets etc.

(I'm a fan of quirky, if they were apolitical I'd be all for the Viking helmets)


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cyberdad
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21 Jan 2021, 5:23 pm

KT67 wrote:
Alt-right won't be popular for a while I think. America's the biggest country in the world, the average type of people to go alt-right get embarrassed by anything 'cringe' and the protestors at the capitol were very cringey...


I think the actor Will Smith said racism hasn't changed, it's just being filmed. That about sums up the George Floyd incident, alt-right marches, militia and the rise in Karens. The widespread use of mobile devices filming/uploading high definition clips now clearly identify alt-right perpatrators.

These clowns have always existed, They also exist in other western countries.



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21 Jan 2021, 5:31 pm

Dear_one wrote:
I hope that we are seeing the chaotic ending of a period of history that began with agriculture producing granaries worth fighting over, and will end when computers restore transparency and accountability to the management of them. In small tribes, the psychopaths were too well known to do much damage, but wealth let them create layers of deception. Systems management can serve us far better than rulers driven by self-interest.


What you say reminds me of the kurzweiilian singularity theory. But nobody can forsee what future technology will do to human species. Terminator/Matrix scenario or a Digital Eden such as proposed by Terrence Mckenna. or none of those.

One day the future"entities" that will inhabit this planet, whatever form they may take, or evolutionary path. I suspect will look back on today's crude politics like we look upon the war of the roses, or neanderthal vs cro-magnon wars.


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21 Jan 2021, 6:08 pm

I remember being surprised when people thought racism didn't happen anymore. Ignorance is a bliss and congratulations for never living in a area where people are outward with their racism. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest so I never saw any racism growing up. That was because I lived in a mostly white area and it never occurred to me to judge people by their race and connect any of their behaviors to race so I never got to stereotype them.

I knew racism was still around, I just thought those people were rare. Now I am sad to see racism is very common in the US and I totally disagreed when people thought people had gotten more racist after Trump was elected into office and I knew then, "No, they just came out of their closet."


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21 Jan 2021, 6:16 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I knew racism was still around, I just thought those people were rare. Now I am sad to see racism is very common in the US and I totally disagreed when people thought people had gotten more racist after Trump was elected into office and I knew then, "No, they just came out of their closet."


A few things happened
1. Trump blew a dog-whistle to right-wing types in order to sure up his support base
2. People who always existed with right wing beliefs felt emboldened to come out in public and these are the MAGAs
3. The left now have at their disposal the means to film these jokers and upload media to the WWW in a matter of seconds
4. The MAGAs, police, armed forces and others got caught on film saying and doing racist things

In some ways Trump may have done society a favour by drawing out racism that was hiding just beneath the surface.



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21 Jan 2021, 7:26 pm

Back in the 70s, I thought that we had racism well on the way to the history books. Now, I think that it is a maintenance issue that has to be dealt with in every generation. I was in the company of others who mixed easily, and assumed that everyone could learn to relax around other races. Now, I think that people are born with a wide range of not-very-flexible attitudes to people who are different. If that were not the case, we would be lacking either the mixers, who promote trade and cooperation, and the "purity" types who discourage invasions and the spread of disease. Both have their place in keeping civilization stable by competing and finding the best mix.
I think that there would be more happiness and peace if we let people who just can't feel safe except in a homogenous group establish segregated areas, as long as they didn't try to control other areas, or prevent people from leaving.



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21 Jan 2021, 8:38 pm

Dear_one wrote:
Now, I think that people are born with a wide range of not-very-flexible attitudes to people who are different. If that were not the case, we would be lacking either the mixers, who promote trade and cooperation, and the "purity" types who discourage invasions and the spread of disease. Both have their place in keeping civilization stable by competing and finding the best mix.
I think that there would be more happiness and peace if we let people who just can't feel safe except in a homogenous group establish segregated areas, as long as they didn't try to control other areas, or prevent people from leaving.


Yes you are on the right track. If people have are encouraged by their community to differentiate "us from them" then it's not just race (this is the main one) but also includes LGBTQI, disabled and anyone who doesn't "fit in"



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21 Jan 2021, 9:05 pm

cyberdad wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I knew racism was still around, I just thought those people were rare. Now I am sad to see racism is very common in the US and I totally disagreed when people thought people had gotten more racist after Trump was elected into office and I knew then, "No, they just came out of their closet."


A few things happened
1. Trump blew a dog-whistle to right-wing types in order to sure up his support base
2. People who always existed with right wing beliefs felt emboldened to come out in public and these are the MAGAs
3. The left now have at their disposal the means to film these jokers and upload media to the WWW in a matter of seconds
4. The MAGAs, police, armed forces and others got caught on film saying and doing racist things

In some ways Trump may have done society a favour by drawing out racism that was hiding just beneath the surface.



I still have a hard time believing how one can support that man and not be racist. All I see are deniers when they deny anything he says and make excuses. But at least some of them are honest on why they support him despite being a self aware wolf.


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21 Jan 2021, 10:52 pm

League_Girl wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I knew racism was still around, I just thought those people were rare. Now I am sad to see racism is very common in the US and I totally disagreed when people thought people had gotten more racist after Trump was elected into office and I knew then, "No, they just came out of their closet."


A few things happened
1. Trump blew a dog-whistle to right-wing types in order to sure up his support base
2. People who always existed with right wing beliefs felt emboldened to come out in public and these are the MAGAs
3. The left now have at their disposal the means to film these jokers and upload media to the WWW in a matter of seconds
4. The MAGAs, police, armed forces and others got caught on film saying and doing racist things

In some ways Trump may have done society a favour by drawing out racism that was hiding just beneath the surface.



I still have a hard time believing how one can support that man and not be racist. All I see are deniers when they deny anything he says and make excuses. But at least some of them are honest on why they support him despite being a self aware wolf.


Yes its hard to believe people when they say they support Trump but don't believe he's racist. The only conciliatory thing I can say is many people are insensitive and put blinkers not caring what Trump says and focused only on themselves.