Autism and empathy

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It's funny, they're groomed to only look for deviations from the norm and to assume the worst when they encounter them, and then we wonder why they don't get autistics or the mentally ill and are prone to harassing minorities.

QFT

The other point I really wanted to focus on is that when people point to someone like Ted Bundy as an example of a sociopath and insist autistics can't be sociopaths because we're not like him, they're completely missing the point.

Ted Bundy (and people like him) would only represent one profile of a person with high ratings in all dark triad traits.

An inverted, covert narcissist, who's prone to grievance collecting and power fantasies and who always wants revenge on those who've wronged them (usually him), with zero pro-social drive and little empathy for others almost certainly possess the dark triad and abso-fuckin-lutely could be autistic.

Ted Bundy being a sociopath, or possessing the dark triad or antisocial personality disorder, doesn't mean that other, different profiles of people who possess the dark triad don't also exist. It might just be that we don't want to recognize that people like us might possess those traits because we don't want another negative autism stereotype.

Combine it with ADHD / poor impulse control and these people are dangerous.

Definitely.

I think part of the problem with how autistic communities tend to view our overlap with dark triad personalities is because we tend to think of ourselves as being bullied or victimized and it's easy to imagine dark triad personalities as the bad guys so there can't be overlap.

Well, within these communities we see evidence of those sorts of people, but also, some of us have spiky profiles that include a lot of predispositions and often, the trauma we tend to experience causes some maladaptive coping skills.

Some portion of those people will turn out to possess all three of the dark triad traits. Not all of them are bad people or groomers or abusers though. Some of them might not be bad besides needlessly being petty. They're still us too, so long as they don't intentionally inflict harm.

But beyond that, having those traits doesn't mean someone will be effective at harming others or even seek it out without provocation. Some portion of the people like us who possess those traits just sit and stew on how they've been harmed without ever acting towards harming others (at least not in person).

Those people aren't a threat, they're people we'd feel bad for before ever feeling threatened by, and yet they might meet the criteria for possessing all three dark triad traits.

I've met some seriously f'd up autistic individuals online, of all genders.
I'd call some of them sociopaths, although I'm not licensed to evaluate people that way.
I'm not referring to current members.
Most of them were on other sites including YouTube (I'm a mod).
For a long time I told myself they couldn't really be autistic.
They must be posers or trolls.
I finally realised at least some of them must be autistic according to stats.

I'm sure there are autistic social deviants in "the real world" too.
It's just that I don't really know any autistic people IRL except for my family.

I think it's like any other demographic.
It's not the autism that makes them sociopaths, but they can still BE sociopaths.

Agreed. Autism might be a contributor in the same way ADHD can be, but neither (or both) is the cause.

Developmental differences might make someone predisposed to certain traits, but they wouldn't cause a personality disorder.

A personality disorder might make someone predisposed to certain behaviours, but they don't cause or excuse certain behaviours.

Apparently a lot of surgeons are psychopaths. They have to be. But somehow they use that trait to help people.

I had to take my daughter to be assessed by the orthodontist recently. God that man was a psychopath! Ugh. So I didn't make her have treatment with him. No way he was touching my baby.

I think every day I read something on WP from users here of what an NT did or said to them that wasn't just lacking in empathy but actually evil, with no remorse. Even their own relatives. It's shocking how NT people can have the nerve to say or do such a thing when they're supposed to have empathy. This is why I feel insulted whenever people point out lacking empathy to autistic people just for not understanding a situation.

Especially as she was doing her end of school exams and was very stressed due to that and the pandemic/lockdowns. Dental treatment from a psycho would have finished her off.

You hit the nail on the head there. Exactly. They are groomed to look for deviations from the norm and anyone who deviates is dangerous, scary, to be avoided.

I’ve only seen you reference this.

I don’t know any NTs who even talk about autistic people. It’s just not a topic of conversation for most people to go around insulting autistics especially to me or my family. Where do you encounter all these autism-insulters?

I've not seen it either.

You seem to be suggesting an us vs. them dynamic. It doesn't exist. People are people. I might have more in common with some NTs than some autistics and vice versa. NTs aren't going around demeaning us in their spare time unless there are some really strange exceptions out there whose opinion does not matter. They usually don't even think about neurodiversity. Everyone can be lacking in empathy whether they are NT or ND. Most people would recognize this if they were thinking about this topic for some reason.

I'm not talking about everyday conversations. I'm talking about most sources of information about autism written by NT or autistic people, whether it's on an autism site like this or when researching information on autism.
You're right, autism isn't what's on NT's minds. NTs aren't out to get autistic people. They judge anybody, even each other. But some autistic people seem to think that autistic people aren't deserving of the empathy from NTs because we're "different" or "difficult". But it's not how empathy works. The definition of empathy isn't "feeling for everyone except autistic people".

Yes, most definitions by medical or scientific people I've read say that autistic people lack empathy. I hope that view is receding though.

Other old-fashioned definitions of autistic people say that we are obsessed with computers, logic and numbers.

No wonder many people don't think they're autistic if they are told that is how all autistic people behave

I wonder if it's a British/American thing. I've read that American health and medical knowledge is decades ahead of British. e.g. Americans knew counselling was beneficial decades before British people did. We only started thinking counselling was normal in the 21st century as far as I know. Before that it was seen as something for weak/crazy people.