Most people on this forum don't have Asperger's Syndrome

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giaam
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17 Feb 2008, 4:29 pm

Everyone entitled to an opinion; but thats just it, an opinion that most peole on here dont have AS. Like you would know us all personnaly and are qualified to then make a DX based on what is written by them. Its a spectrum disorder, some have it 'worse' than others, some appear as social cripples, where as some are superficialy socially adequate at least.
Frankly, I dont care what others may think of my DX, its not like I can or do use it for any form of gain from others, I managed just as well before I knew why I am this way, nothing has changed since, I just have a better understanding of myself. 'Aspie' is just a label on me that most people dont get to read, like the ones in my shorts! :twisted:


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17 Feb 2008, 7:22 pm

KingdomOfRats wrote:
Mw99 has always seemed desperate to only get diagnosed with AS,and was told he doesn't have AS by at least one pysch not long ago if am remember correctly,why now change to seeing it as a fad when were just like a lot of users here,wanting assessment for it?


I was bitter. I'm sorry :oops:



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17 Feb 2008, 7:57 pm

Mw99 wrote:
I read a book on misdiagnoses and it said that some of the red flags diagnosticians should look for when diagnosing for Asperger's are self-awareness and empathy. It said that if a person presents either trait, it's unlikely the person has Asperger's.


And that's the opinion of one expert. Many people on this site (including myself) have these traits to some extent, and have official dxes from professionals who know quite a bit about the spectrum. Not everything that's in books is Absolute Truth.



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17 Feb 2008, 8:41 pm

srriv345 wrote:
Mw99 wrote:
I read a book on misdiagnoses and it said that some of the red flags diagnosticians should look for when diagnosing for Asperger's are self-awareness and empathy. It said that if a person presents either trait, it's unlikely the person has Asperger's.


And that's the opinion of one expert. Many people on this site (including myself) have these traits to some extent, and have official dxes from professionals who know quite a bit about the spectrum. Not everything that's in books is Absolute Truth.


I know.



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17 Feb 2008, 9:56 pm

Okay, since threads like this seem to pop up at least once every few months, and of course increase in frequency the larger and larger this site gets, let's look at this logically:

1) With the new stats from child diagnoses in the school systems, we're looking at probably about 0.6% of the school population. For most autistics, diagnosis comes earlier the more severe we are. So, actual occurrence rates are probably closer to 1%, maybe even closer to 2%, of the population by adulthood, assuming some kids have been missed especially if they are AS or HFA (AS tends to get diagnosed much later in contrast to autistic disorder). So, even if it's only 1%, that's actually a pretty common condition: that's 1 out of every 100 people who has an ASC. Think of how many people you've met in your lifetime, and probability would predict that one person out of every hundred you've come across also has an ASC (either diagnosed or not).

2) If one must use labels of “functioning”, those on this site would be considered towards the higher end, so we would not represent the entire autistic spectrum. But, since “autism” is a continuum it should adhere to some sort of statistical bell curve with higher-functioning people outnumbering lower functioning. Therefore, within the autistic spectrum, more people will be diagnosed with AS or HFA (or sometimes PDD-NOS, depending on its defined use) than those with MFA or LFA, making us the majority in the spectrum. So if it suddenly seems like there’s more aspies running around, there probably are.

3) This is the internet. All of a sudden, you can talk with people ALL over the world, that's billions of people. It may seem like there are a LOT of autistics on this forum, but it's really a very small percentage to the number one would predict would exist in the entire human population. Currently, there are approximately 16,750 registered members on WP; for the sake of simplicity, let's assume they are all autistic (even though some are parents, others are uncertain, and still others are double or even triple accounts). 16,750 x 100 = 1,675,000. That's less than 2 million people and, percentage-wise, actually slightly less than the number of autistics one would expect to find in my own home town of St. Louis with a population of 2,801,033 in 2006 (to put that more simply, there are more autistics in St. Louis than there are on WP). However, according to the US Census Bureau, they predicted that there is approximately 6,649,117,969 people on earth right now (Feb. 2008). That means that if 1% of the human population is diagnosable with an Autistic Spectrum Condition, that approximately 66,491,180 should have an ASC. That is nearly 3970 TIMES the population of Wrong Planet. Now, even though WP doesn’t house the entire world’s autistic population and specifically caters to the English-speaking auties, it’s certainly one of the largest autism sites out there, and definitely the largest Aspergers-related site. Therefore, when it comes down to it, even though it may SEEM as though there’s a HUGE number of autistics on this site, diagnosed or not, it’s really a very small number to the 66.5 million of us out there in the real world.

The assumption is probably related to the Availability Heuristic: because you are on WP so frequently and because it SEEMS like WP has such a huge population (which, compared to other sites, it does), it seems like there’s more aspies on here than there should be. When in reality, that’s not really the case, as the above numbers should hopefully point out. :)


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19 Feb 2008, 2:46 am

srriv345 wrote:
Mw99 wrote:
I read a book on misdiagnoses and it said that some of the red flags diagnosticians should look for when diagnosing for Asperger's are self-awareness and empathy. It said that if a person presents either trait, it's unlikely the person has Asperger's.


And that's the opinion of one expert. Many people on this site (including myself) have these traits to some extent, and have official dxes from professionals who know quite a bit about the spectrum. Not everything that's in books is Absolute Truth.


And I can tell you from personal experience that thing about not being self-aware about having difficulties....

Nothing could be further from the truth.


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19 Feb 2008, 5:06 am

Irulan wrote:
I'm glad someone touches this issue. I raised this point myself yesterday talking to another user of WP, suggesting that many people on this forum in fact don't have anything in common with autistic spectrum: they're simply intellectuals with poor social skills who don't find any common ground with all those average Joes surrounding them or the problems they encounter trying to socialize are caused by shyness and, of course, we must not forget about personality disorders - borderline, avoidant or schizoid personality.

As for me, I have no the slightest idea if I have it or not. But before I arrived here I had happened to talk online with one guy with AS diagnosed who claimed that he, being diagnosed had exactly the same symptoms which I had which may be a good premise to believe I have the same too.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt39373.html It's a thread I once started, summarizing all my quirks. The are typical for AS but I was completely unable to judge myself; to see myself from outside, through other people's eyes so I decided to look for opinion then which would agree with your statement about self-awareness being inconsistent with the nature of AS.

Speaking of empathy, this issue seems to look this way: some people with AS apparently have it developed (maybe not in such a high degree like in neurotypical people, I guess) but their problem is lack of skill when it comes to showing it, others - like myself - don't seem to have it in extent. I mean - in my case the cognitive empathy functions very well but the emotional one almost doesn't exist.


I understand the last part of this very well. I have learned when to act concerned but it's been through trial and error, the errors were very embarrassing.

A coworker came in very upset and announced that her mother was ill and in the hospital. My first thought - "Good. If she's very ill then she's absolutely in the right place. Why are you sad?" There have been times I've actually said things like that. By the reactions of the other people in the room you would have though I'd just stabbed somebody.

Another time I was trying to tread carefully so I said, slowly "And... that's a bad thing, right? Because you care about your mother?..... and you're ..... worried?" Whew.

Now I have learned to automatically say something that sounds right but all I can think of is "How long does this have to last" Unless it is someone that I know quite well and feel a connection to.



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19 Feb 2008, 5:12 am

Silver_Meteor wrote:
I am one of those who was diagnosed with "Autism/Childhood Schizophrenia" back in the early 60s as a very small child by my parent's pediatrician. This was long before Dr. Phil was even a psychologist

Asperger's Syndrome was not officially put in the diagnostic manual until the early 1990s. If I was that same small child now, I would have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome.

Aspies can indeed have "empathy" but they may not know how to correctly display it via proper social interaction.

Self-awareness being inconsistent with Asperger's Syndrome? Not from my experience. I was certainly very aware that my social interactions did not fit the norm compared to my peers who were NT.


Absolutely - the self awareness is taught to us through reaction. When you say or do something to anger people, when everyone bursts out laughing and you look around wondering why and they're all laughing at you, when people don't want to be around you anymore or they yell at you for something and you're just shocked..... it's not like those things happened only once. When they are regular and ongoing throughout your life you GET IT that you're not doing things 'right'.

I can add to that the fact that I don't recognize people's faces. The constant problems that has caused me all of my life is obvious. No way to not be aware of that. I have always been amazed when others remember who someone is and I always wonder why they're able to and I'm not.



takudzwaaywok198
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09 Sep 2015, 10:16 am

High or low intelligence does not "cause" social awkwardness in itself.
Usually a ret*d will care.. less about what people may happen to think of him. He will keep laughing, if you see what I mean.

If people with high intelligence will sometimes be socially awkward, it is because as i've already said here once, asperger's is a degree of expression of Neanderthal genes, and every genes that are linked to intelligence found in "homo sapiens" nowadays have all been inherited from the Neanderthals.
It has been found that, when they think, people with a high IQ and aspies will both use some parts of their left-brain hemisphere more intensively while using alot of their right-brain hemisphere, while an average neurotypical will only use a bit of their left-brain hemisphere. People with high IQ but that still have a social compass are "light" aspies, in some ways.
Where you will find a high IQ, you will often find "aspie-ish" traits. I have got a high IQ myself, and am a neurotypical, but I have the obsessiveness and a few other "autistic" traits.
I don't think that a high or low IQ will "cause" in itself social awkwardness.

So.. It may be likelier that someone socially awkward may have asperger's or autistic traits, but not "highly likely".



Last edited by takudzwaaywok198 on 09 Sep 2015, 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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09 Sep 2015, 10:22 am

Mw99 wrote:
It is true that Asperger's Syndrome causes social awkwardness, but to assume that a socially awkward person has a high likelihood of having Asperger' Syndrome --just because he or she is socially awkward-- is ridiculous. It might sound hard to believe, but the first thought that comes into a lot of people's minds when they hear the words "socially awkward" is "Asperger's Syndrome."

Here's a brief list of conditions that also cause social awkwardness:

Low intelligence.
High intelligence.
Immaturity.
Attitude.
Schizophrenia.
Personality Disorders.
ADD/ADHD.

Of course, almost noone wants to attribute their social problems to a psychiatric disorder, low intelligence or a flaw of character; so it's not suprising that when an Oprah/Dr.Phil-educated armchair psychologist labels them Aspergeans, and reassures them that their problem is not a problem, but just a variation in the way they interpret the world, they feel ennobled and redeemed; the blame for their faults swiftly shifts from their own selves towards an abstraction.

The truth is that Asperger's Syndrome is just another fad, like depression and ADD/ADHD. In fact, most people who think they have Asperger's Syndrome probably don't have it, because self-awareness is pretty much inconsistent with the nature of Asperger's Syndrome. Do you feel empathy towards other "aspies" on this forum? Most likely, that means you don't have Asperger's Syndrome. Aspergeans are known for lacking empathy, and saying that an Aspergean feels empathy is almost as ludicrous as saying that a narcissist has low self-esteem; that's just not the way these labels were defined.

For those reasons, I think most people on this forum don't have Asperger's Syndrome.


Wow, you really got my head spinning and my blood boiling. Maybe you, the self proclaimed autism expert, could psychoanalyze everyone here and weed out the "posers".

I never realized autism was the new fad everyone is aiming to have :roll:

Aspie's don't necessarily lack empathy I think their emotions are just a bit tangled as are their other sensory input's. Maybe you are just a psychopath? I think you are the true poser.



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09 Sep 2015, 10:31 am

Crazyfool wrote:
Wow, you really got my head spinning and my blood boiling. Maybe you, the self proclaimed autism expert, could psychoanalyze everyone here and weed out the "posers".

I never realized autism was the new fad everyone is aiming to have :roll:

Aspie's don't necessarily lack empathy I think their emotions are just a bit tangled as are their other sensory input's. Maybe you are just a psychopath? I think you are the true poser.

The OP can't hear you, they quit WP 6 years ago. This thread has been necrobumped for some reason.



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09 Sep 2015, 10:53 am

Get up to speed OP. Are you an expert?

Well I don`t even trust experts!

Re lack of empathy ...
recent thought suggests that many aspies are actually Hyper-empathic
(ie. Aspies have MORE EMPATHY NOT LESS than NT`s)

....(in my simplified words) ......... which kind of leads to functional overload of emotion......
.....which leads to a need to dampen down these feelings so they can cope.......
.... creating a `buffer` for empathy/emotion
.....which exhibits to NT`s as lack of empathy.

I have Aspergers but I dont officially have Aspergers... what does that make me?

Anyway according to DSM 5. Aspergers is no longer Aspergers but a facet of ASD.

Ultimately does it matter? surely what matters is the common experience? don`t be so dismissive



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09 Sep 2015, 10:55 am

Peejay wrote:
Anyway according to DSM 5. Aspergers is no longer Aspergers but a facet of ASD.

When this was posted the DSM 5 wasn't out.



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09 Sep 2015, 10:58 am

iliketrees wrote:
Crazyfool wrote:
Wow, you really got my head spinning and my blood boiling. Maybe you, the self proclaimed autism expert, could psychoanalyze everyone here and weed out the "posers".

I never realized autism was the new fad everyone is aiming to have :roll:

Aspie's don't necessarily lack empathy I think their emotions are just a bit tangled as are their other sensory input's. Maybe you are just a psychopath? I think you are the true poser.

The OP can't hear you, they quit WP 6 years ago. This thread has been necrobumped for some reason.
s

I just realized that lol. Oh well some people still need to hear it as I'm seeing more and more of this NT stigmatizing and bashing going on and it really erks me.



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09 Sep 2015, 10:59 am

OK. I didn`t know that.
so really this thread should be scrapped or updated then as the initial premise is surely out of date



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09 Sep 2015, 10:59 am

Old thread, these threads don't bother me anymore nor does it bother me if anyone says it's over diagnosed or how most people with it don't even have it. Old old old. I got tired of taking offense so I stopped being offended by all this so it's all boring. Now it's "Oh look, one of those threads again."

Yes I realize this is an old thread right when I clicked on it.


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